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lilljonas posted:https://southernpaintinginc.wordpress.com/2017/01/20/conservatism-in-lore-how-much-can-we-truly-hold-on-to/ Worst thing about that article is that the dude can't spell prophecy right.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:45
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90s Cringe Rock posted:40K really does need a massive mechanical overhaul and an entire new game with no backwards-compatability in codices and rules. Warpath hits retail in April.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:59
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90s Cringe Rock posted:40K really does need a massive mechanical overhaul and an entire new game with no backwards-compatability in codices and rules. It definitely needs this, but I don't fault GW for not wanting to invalidate three dozen $60 rulebooks sold over the last few years. They're pretty deep down the rabbit hole with that poo poo
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Jan 20, 2017 18:00
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TheChirurgeon posted:It definitely needs this, but I don't fault GW for not wanting to invalidate three dozen $60 rulebooks sold over the last few years. They're pretty deep down the rabbit hole with that poo poo Yeah GW would never do that.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:33
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Atlas Hugged posted:Yeah GW would never do that. I didn't say they wouldn't; just that I would understand why if they didn't. Do you want them to invalidate everything or not?
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Jan 20, 2017 18:38
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I don't care one way or the other as I've long since moved on to better games.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:40
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TheChirurgeon posted:I didn't say they wouldn't; just that I would understand why if they didn't. Do you want them to invalidate everything or not? To make a better game? Hell yes. That's literally what happened with D&D4e and it was 
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Jan 20, 2017 18:42
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Chill la Chill posted:To make a better game? Hell yes. That's literally what happened with D&D4e and it was Do you actually own anything from GW?
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Jan 20, 2017 18:45
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When has GW ever produced a good game (by modern terms)? Some of their games were good for their time, but that was an era when games of this sort were very poorly designed because no one really knew what they were doing.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:50
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Avenging Dentist posted:When has GW ever produced a good game (by modern terms)? Some of their games were good for their time, but that was an era when games of this sort were very poorly designed because no one really knew what they were doing. Presumably that shouldn't stop them from being able to make a good game for its time now, but in order to do that, you'd have to invest much more into design and playtesting than they currently do. And also develop a strong digital strategy. Hell, even their supposedly "good" competitors have p. poo poo digital strategies e: But there's still no getting around the bad will you'd create from invalidating that many expensive books overnight. Could be mitigated with free digital releases, but you'd have to have those all ready to roll out of the gate, and they'd have to be better than the AoS free nonsense because holy gently caress those were bad
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Jan 20, 2017 19:08
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I mean, we assume you're aware they literally did that to Fantasy, but I'll mention it just in case it somehow slipped your notice. Like, they not only invalidated all of the existing Fantasy library, they also invalidated the series of four very very expensive "the end times" books they'd just released during the previous six months. e. To be fair, I feel a little bad for 40k players because it's not nice that they would go through what all the Fantasy players went through. At the same time, I kind of want it to happen to them anyway, because if you watched what happened to Fantasy and didn't believe it could happen to 40k and kept investing in this terrible game from this terrible company, it's hard to be all that sympathetic.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:28
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Leperflesh posted:I mean, we assume you're aware they literally did that to Fantasy, but I'll mention it just in case it somehow slipped your notice.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:30
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Leperflesh posted:I mean, we assume you're aware they literally did that to Fantasy, but I'll mention it just in case it somehow slipped your notice. TheChirurgeon posted:I didn't say they wouldn't; just that I would understand why if they didn't.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:34
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TheChirurgeon posted:Presumably that shouldn't stop them from being able to make a good game for its time now, but in order to do that, you'd have to invest much more into design and playtesting than they currently do. And also develop a strong digital strategy. I think it does stop them because they've stagnated so long that they've lost all their talented game designers. They'd have to completely rebuild their design team, and given their reputation, I have serious doubts that they'd be able to manage it. Maybe if they actually paid their designers well they could poach some people, but I think GW would have to show that they've really changed, honest this time, for anyone to take notice. They'd probably need more talented staff to actually change, so they're in a bit of a catch-22. Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 19:36
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Avenging Dentist posted:I think it does stop them because they've stagnated so long that they've lost all their talented game designers. They'd have to completely rebuild their design team, and given their reputation, I have serious doubts that they'd be able to manage it. They could just hire new designers, so no, not having good games in the past by modern standards wouldn't stop them from making good games now. Their lack of interest in investing time and money into good design and playtesting would. There's no problem GW has right now that's so bad it couldn't be solved. It's just that this problem and most of the others won't be. I don't think "game design" pays so well that they'd have a terrible time hiring good designers to work on a franchise as popular as 40k; they just aren't willing to invest more resources into it. Probably because in part they don't think it'll pay off financially
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Jan 20, 2017 19:40
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That's why I edited my post. I doubt they could hire good game designers. (I also have significant doubts that they'd even be able to recognize a good designer if one applied for the job.)
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Jan 20, 2017 19:41
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Hey guys, there is an AoS event coming up at WHW and they explicitly say that they are using an amazing new AoS exclusive GW-trademarked game mechanic... Right from the event pack: "At this event, we will measure all distances between models using their bases as a reference point. This is commonly known as measuring “base-to-base”."
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Jan 20, 2017 19:41
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Avenging Dentist posted:That's why I edited my post. I doubt they could hire good game designers. (I also have significant doubts that they'd even be able to recognize a good designer if one applied for the job.) They totally could. "Lead designer on Warhammer 40k" is an immensely desirable game design job. Whether they'd be able to find someone good is trickier, but you can always hire based on track record with existing games--it's not like these guys have iron-clad non-competes or anything. And regardless of the quality of the hire, you still need to invest serious resources and time into playtesting. Even good designers make mistakes.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:43
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TKIY posted:Hey guys, there is an AoS event coming up at WHW and they explicitly say that they are using an amazing new AoS exclusive GW-trademarked game mechanic... loving lol is this true
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Jan 20, 2017 19:45
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TKIY posted:Hey guys, there is an AoS event coming up at WHW and they explicitly say that they are using an amazing new AoS exclusive GW-trademarked game mechanic... Holy poo poo Link? E: 
Not a viking fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 19:46
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It's a past event, but that's in the rules for the "Battle Brothers" event on Dec 10-11: https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/Battle_Brothers-Classic-Final.pdf
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Jan 20, 2017 19:49
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It's the 'Triumph and Treachery' event: https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-triumph-and-treachery/ And yes it's true. Also this blasphemes the name 'Triumph and Treachery' which was an absolute blast to play in 8th edition.
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Jan 20, 2017 20:13
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Imperial Knight trench runs might be the most GW thing ever.
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Jan 21, 2017 00:26
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Avenging Dentist posted:That's why I edited my post. I doubt they could hire good game designers. (I also have significant doubts that they'd even be able to recognize a good designer if one applied for the job.) If I were GW I would be looking at how Andy chambers returned to Wargames and how his involvement in Dropfleet helped get nerds frothing at the mouth to throw money at the kickstarter. I would then try to recruit Andy Chambers to consult on a GW product and get the extra big money bucket out ready for the GW fans to empty their wallets into in a fever of nostalgic anticipation.
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Jan 21, 2017 00:28
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TKIY posted:Imperial Knight trench runs might be the most GW thing ever. did Knights just get their weapons arc hosed up for no reason or something? i'm sleepy so not paying huge attention
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Jan 21, 2017 01:00
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Yep. This is actually real. As in, the image is a photoshop, but this is still what just happened: Imperial Knight trench runs are in baby!
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Jan 21, 2017 01:11
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BULBASAUR posted:Yep. This is actually real. As in, the image is a photoshop, but this is still what just happened: It's like how Vin Diesel got past the monsters from Pitch Black
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Jan 21, 2017 01:53
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I just want to load up trucks full of orks and ram them. All day every day.
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Jan 21, 2017 03:15
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Liquid Communism posted:I just want to load up trucks full of orruks and ram them. All day every day. ftfy
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Jan 21, 2017 03:17
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Ugleb posted:If I were GW I would be looking at how Andy chambers returned to Wargames and how his involvement in Dropfleet helped get nerds frothing at the mouth to throw money at the kickstarter. Or how basically every GW rules writer and game designer has gone on to new companies and made succesful games based entirely on the pitch of "it's like a GW game but with balanced rules, FAQs that make sense, adequate playtesting, stripped of all the bullshit and made with considerations for game design concepts beyond 1999!". Like if you examine all the current competitors to GW and their pedigree this is what you get: Warmachine/Hordes: built on/influenced by the only two games to ever go toe to toe with GW prior to WM (WarZone and Mage Knight). Flames of War: Written as proposed back to the drawing board rewrite of the 40k rules. Bolt Action: Built by an ex-GW designer who wanted to take the positive aspects of classic GW games and add in modern design concepts and readability. DZC: Originally developed by people who got tired of how lovely 40k was, worked on by ex-GW staff who wanted to, you guessed it, incorporate modern design concepts into a 40k like game. Frostgrave: Developed by non-GW people who wanted to modernize an old GW game. Kings of War: Developed by an ex-GW staffer and former GW tournament players to be like a GW game that included stripped down rules with modern design concepts. Infinity: Doesn't take any design ques from GW games, but instead was built around the goal of doing everything that 40k did wrong correctly (LoS, unit tactics, weapon ranges, etc). It's almost like GW serves as the bed from which people get good but flawed ideas and then polish them into better games that get published by people other than GW! If only there was a way for GW to not get cut off during the second stage of this process....
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Jan 21, 2017 03:18
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Liquid Communism posted:I just want to thunderload up troukks full of orruks and bloodram them. All sigday every sigday. Let's get them all right.
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Jan 21, 2017 03:19
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El Estrago Bonito posted:It's almost like GW serves as the bed from which people get good but flawed ideas and then polish them into better games that get published by people other than GW! If only there was a way for GW to not get cut off during the second stage of this process.... Probably more that they cut their teeth working at GW, got a handle and what works and what doesn't, and left for greener pastures where they'd have more control. The biggest problem with staying at GW--apart from the internal drama and politics of working for their idiot loving CEO before Roundtree took over--is that you're saddled with a 17 year-old system that was already creaking under its own weight 15 years ago. 40k absolutely needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up, but even if you invalidate all the books, you still have to figure out what you're going to do about the models. Some armies straight-up have too many choices, many of which are redundant. But making units invalid is a surefire way to lose customers. It's lose-lose for GW at this point with regard to redoing 40k's rules because they're too deep in the poo poo now
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Jan 21, 2017 03:44
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What is the source on the messed up knight firing arcs?
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Jan 21, 2017 06:14
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The latest round of GW FAQs, apparently. If you feel like looking at the last page or two of the 40k thread (bad thread? It's the bad thread, yeah?) there'll be a link somewhere.
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Jan 21, 2017 07:04
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Terrible Opinions posted:What is the source on the messed up knight firing arcs? TKIY posted:This is the direct image and text from the Knight FAQ:
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Jan 21, 2017 07:08
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Trench runs on knights owns. It's one of those accidental things that are actually good. Problem is, IIRC there were no movement penalties for rotating so facing doesn't really matter anyway.
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Jan 21, 2017 08:39
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TheChirurgeon posted:Probably more that they cut their teeth working at GW, got a handle and what works and what doesn't, and left for greener pastures where they'd have more control. The biggest problem with staying at GW--apart from the internal drama and politics of working for their idiot loving CEO before Roundtree took over--is that you're saddled with a 17 year-old system that was already creaking under its own weight 15 years ago. I haven't actually played 40k in something like 15 years but my impression is that it needs a clean break and hard reset. Carrying over old codices from edition to edition means that you can't really fix underlying issues cleanly because everything needs to be backwards compatible. It would not be a bad thing to strip army rosters back to units that have a purpose. While invalidating old units is always going to cause an amount of upset, keeping them in isn't really helping. Allowing players to use the defunct units as proxies might help soften the blow and build some goodwill in the transition and as things pan out new opportunities to reimagine them might appear. Ultimately all things pass. They should probably try to keep anything recently released (at least as an official proxy) but trying to retain rules for two decades of releases across a dozen factions isn't going to work.
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Jan 21, 2017 12:07
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BULBASAUR posted:Yep. This is actually real. As in, the image is a photoshop, but this is still what just happened:
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Jan 21, 2017 12:52
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Chill la Chill posted:Tzeentch is pronounced like Change, as in the Lord of Change. I always just called him T-zeenie.
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Jan 21, 2017 18:17
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The Skeleton King posted:I always just called him T-zeenie. Ugleb posted:I haven't actually played 40k in something like 15 years but my impression is that it needs a clean break and hard reset. Carrying over old codices from edition to edition means that you can't really fix underlying issues cleanly because everything needs to be backwards compatible. 
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Jan 21, 2017 18:24
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