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Kaethela posted:I gave that Sleeper Hold deck a try the other day and won two games in a row with it. The first by scoring six points and sleepers (watching the runner panic during their turn was the greatest thing ever) and the second by scoring out a GFI from hand. Sleeper hold is still good right now. You can rush behind lotuses
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Jan 19, 2017 23:17
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ZorajitZorajit posted:Huh, apparently people still enjoy playing Netrunner. Like these dorks from Reddit. Hey, whatever brings joy. On one hand, good for them. Oh the other hand, a lot more effort could have been made. Still, they seem happy so gently caress it.
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Jan 19, 2017 23:52
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I've been playing a sweet NBN glacier deck with Haarischandra Ent., Data Raven + Data Ward, Data Hound, other sweet stuff. I've only played it a bit but it's fun. Super taxing ice and napd contract owns.
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Jan 20, 2017 00:02
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The bride in that wedding is the first person I know who thought pre-paid voice pad was going to be top tier, she was ahead of the meta by months.
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Jan 20, 2017 00:31
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So after testing, the one good thing about Sifr is that it provides a legitimate alternative console for criminals other than desperado 
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Jan 20, 2017 01:41
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berenzen posted:So after testing, the one good thing about Sifr is that it provides a legitimate alternative console for criminals other than desperado So the sky is not in fact falling?
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Jan 20, 2017 02:03
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Ehhh, it's still not a great card, because it severely limits what people can do. The thing is, that it severely limits ICE design space, which is bad design. Like, I'm breaking DNA trackers and Fairchildren for super cheap with Zu, which opens up more influence, as I no longer need to run gordian. If the game didn't have parasite, I think Sifr would be fine, as glacier decks can still stack up powerful ICE. Sifr's big problem is that it and parasite exist together in the same faction, and as a result it will create a more stagnant meta. Sifr itself is not a big issue, the issue is the degeneracies that occur with parasite. Parasite, unfortunately, is a card that completely warps the game. Like if they ban cards, I'd rather them ban parasite than Sifr, because that's the real issue, not Sifr. Honestly, I think they probably should ban parasite. Look at how much it's warped card design, and that there are so many different cards that have been affected by it. Clone chip is mostly on there specifically because Clone Chip-Parasite was so good. There have also been a bunch of cards printed for corps that are fairly obviously designed specifically for corps to deal with parasite. Friends in High Places, Cyberdex Virus Suite, Macrophage, ark lockdown, Magnet, Lotus Field, etc. We see parasite disappear, I think we see a far more diverse meta develop as a result. berenzen fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 02:23
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berenzen posted:Ehhh, it's still not a great card, because it severely limits what people can do. The thing is, that it severely limits ICE design space, which is bad design. Like, I'm breaking DNA trackers and Fairchildren for super cheap with Zu, which opens up more influence, as I no longer need to run gordian. If the game didn't have parasite, I think Sifr would be fine, as glacier decks can still stack up powerful ICE. Sifr's big problem is that it and parasite exist together in the same faction, and as a result it will create a more stagnant meta. Sifr itself is not a big issue, the issue is the degeneracies that occur with parasite. Parasite, unfortunately, is a card that completely warps the game. Like if they ban cards, I'd rather them ban parasite than Sifr, because that's the real issue, not Sifr. Would Parasite be better balanced if it was similar, but instead of Virus Counters it gained "Parasite Counters" (or Power Counters or whatever) and whenever the Parasite Counters equaled the printed strength it killed the ICE? I like the idea of ICE trashing, I feel like the problem is doing it at paid-ability speed.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:32
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I think you could still keep it as virus counters with that mechanic, it makes surge, virus breeding grounds and other similar cards worth using rather than just sucker/sifr/parasite. The other issue with parasite is how easily it can be recurred. With Same Old Thing, Deja Vu, Parasite and Levy, you can effectively have up to 30 parasites a game. Cutlery is far harder to do, you need the card specific to that ICE type, and it can't be recurred anywhere near as much, plus they take up far more deck slots and force the runner to fully interact with the ICE. berenzen fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 02:39
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They could make it so the trash effect only happens at the start of the runner's turn. That way it doesn't combo with every drat card to trash ice.
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Jan 20, 2017 03:29
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Another console, another excuse to try and make Nasir work. Sifr + parasucker is going to rule on Nasir, especially with all the tutoring and recursion shaper has.
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Jan 20, 2017 03:53
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Turns out that Brian Stinson is really bonkers out of GRNDL. If you get him in your opening hand you can do things like Restructure - Install Stinson - Stinson the Restructure and end your first turn with 28 credits. I got to follow that up with a doubled Hedge Fund and installing a naked Profiteering. You don't even need to install ice, they just can't run because no amount of protection is going to save them.
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Jan 21, 2017 07:03
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Yeah, I was looking at GRNDL a little bit back, when Blackmail spam was everywhere, figured I'd just lean into it, but the ten influence is just a killer
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Jan 21, 2017 17:38
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Stinson seems like he's really binary, though. He's great if you get him turn 1, but with runner economies the way they are these days it's rare for them to ever be below six credits by the midgame, especially if they know Stinson is a threat. Or are people finding a good way to use him?
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Jan 21, 2017 19:39
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Zephro posted:Stinson seems like he's really binary, though. He's great if you get him turn 1, but with runner economies the way they are these days it's rare for them to ever be below six credits by the midgame, especially if they know Stinson is a threat. Like all Green cards, he's better in Yellow. (because you can enable with a Closed Accounts)
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Jan 21, 2017 20:56
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Yeah I was playing around a few months ago with an econ denial deck that ran Scarcity, Reversed Accounts, Dedication Ceremony, Tollbooth, NAPD etc out of Sol. Was wondering if I could find a home for him in there.
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Jan 21, 2017 21:43
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I'm loving around with a Titan deck and in my first playtesting game I ended turn 3 with 31 credits. Bryan is really good when you can capitalize on the runner going broke from setting up.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:22
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Zephro posted:Stinson seems like he's really binary, though. He's great if you get him turn 1, but with runner economies the way they are these days it's rare for them to ever be below six credits by the midgame, especially if they know Stinson is a threat. He's binary out GRNDL, but he's so good when he's on that I don't mind having like two dead draws--especially when the deck is mostly dead later on anyways because I'm just hunting for the actual kill pieces.
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Jan 23, 2017 16:37
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I spent 10 hours playing NetRunner at a fundraising "marathon" event yesterday, and saw a bunch of Aaron Marron, and all I can say is this: finally the Account Siphon-based decks are getting some support; thank god that archetype is gonna make a comeback.
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Jan 23, 2017 16:44
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I can't tell if that's sarcasm or a genuine feeling.
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Jan 23, 2017 17:10
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So now that Worlds has happened and it's the end of Flashpoint, we're presumably due another iteration of the MWL fairly soon? Cards I'd like to see added: Rumour Mill, for being terrible card design that fills a space already filled by much more elegant cards with more interesting counterplay, namely Plop and Councilman Cards I'm not sure about: Temujin: it's game-warpingly good and present in so many decks, both of which have been criteria for being added to the MWL in the past. On the other hand it's elegant card design and while it feels undercosted at 2 inf putting it on the MWL would hurt Criminal. Jackson Howard: Controversy alert! But many/most of the JHow replacements have been printed already. Pre-emptive Action is a decent card; FIHP is great, Anonymous Tip remains good for drawing, Sensie Actors Union is a thing, etc. Plus Corp recursion is kinda bananas now between Jackson, Pre-Emptive and FIHP. SIFR: It may be too early to tell, but ugh, this loving console Cards that could maybe come off the current MWL: NAPD Contract - runner economies feel like they're good enough these days to cope with it. And there's at least one other viable neutral 4/2 in Corporate Sales Team, so it won't be an auto-include. Zephro fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 13:31
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If they put Jackson on there it will be an interesting signal for FFG's concern for casual play since he's rotating out in a few weeks anyway so for competitive play he's off the table already.
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Jan 24, 2017 14:00
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Rotation is after Red Sand, fwiw. Edit: and the MWL is explicitly for tournament play; I think we can expect no rotated cards to remain on the MWL after rotation.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:03
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Yeah, it's a shame we still have another cycle until rotation. I'm very excited for the dramatic shakeup that we'll see when staples like Ash, Caprice, and the rest leave play.
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Jan 24, 2017 16:10
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Plavski posted:Yeah, it's a shame we still have another cycle until rotation. I'm very excited for the dramatic shakeup that we'll see when staples like Ash, Caprice, and the rest leave play.
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Jan 24, 2017 16:22
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3/2s are the worst
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Jan 24, 2017 16:25
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How do you even score out a 4/2 or 5/3 these days with ice and protection as weak as it is? Aside from Fast Advancing it out without advancing it beforehand, I guess. Or threatening to just blow them up if they touch the agenda. Or is the focus more now to score out a bunch of 3/1s?
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Jan 24, 2017 16:54
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CodfishCartographer posted:How do you even score out a 4/2 or 5/3 these days with ice and protection as weak as it is? Aside from Fast Advancing it out without advancing it beforehand, I guess. Or threatening to just blow them up if they touch the agenda. You give the 4/2s and 5/3s to the runner to be traded for a Breaking News later with Exchange of Information.
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Jan 24, 2017 16:56
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There's always Red Herrings! In my mind Red Herrings is maybe a little underrated and I keep wanting to try an econ denial deck that runs it as its scoring plan alongside SanSan and Mumbad Virtual Tour and a load of Tollbooths and stuff. 3/2s are weird, they're obviously super powerful but the structure of the game rules means they're important if you want never advance to be part of the game, because never-advancing nothing but 3/1s is too slow to be viable. And NA in turn really emphasises the bluffing/hidden information aspect of Netrunner. It wouldn't surprise me if they drop Core 2.0 when rotation happens and they grandfather the 3/2s from Genesis in to ensure that every faction has one (probably swapping Beale for Astro and leaving HB with ABT from the existing Core).
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Jan 24, 2017 17:36
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There isn't going to be an MWL update, and if there isn't, Sifr will sure as gently caress not be on there.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:48
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If they were to do another reboot of the game, which I know will never happen, I feel like shying away from fast advance is the best way to go. Without FA, I think 3/2s aren’t super duper powerful. Obviously they’re strong, but I don’t think they’re overwhelmingly so. I know a lot of people were drawn to Netrunner because of the bluffing aspects, and I feel like Fast Advance goes against that entirely. Never Advance definitely ties into this, and a more traditional glacier-style deck ties into it as well. Typing all this out, I’m reminded of when I was new to the game, playing with other people who were new, and we’d always try weird poo poo and weird bluffs. Basically shellgame-style gameplay but out of basically every deck. I wonder if that was the initial intended gameplay for the game, but then it just slowly shifted away from that?
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Jan 24, 2017 17:53
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I'm really hoping ABT/Braintrust/Atlas/Beale remain in the game in one form or another. Losing the Projects would suck a lot with Glacier being so weak right now.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:53
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CodfishCartographer posted:If they were to do another reboot of the game, which I know will never happen, I feel like shying away from fast advance is the best way to go. Without FA, I think 3/2s aren’t super duper powerful. Obviously they’re strong, but I don’t think they’re overwhelmingly so. I know a lot of people were drawn to Netrunner because of the bluffing aspects, and I feel like Fast Advance goes against that entirely. Never Advance definitely ties into this, and a more traditional glacier-style deck ties into it as well. Until the corps get the tools to construct difficult-to-enter servers, there's no reason for a corp to put anything more powerful than a PAD Campaign in a remote unless it's getting scored that turn. Megacorps should not be punching bags for street-level runners; it should actually be an uphill battle, which it currently isn't because orange cards destroyed the game.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:58
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CodfishCartographer posted:If they were to do another reboot of the game, which I know will never happen, I feel like shying away from fast advance is the best way to go. Without FA, I think 3/2s aren’t super duper powerful. Obviously they’re strong, but I don’t think they’re overwhelmingly so. I know a lot of people were drawn to Netrunner because of the bluffing aspects, and I feel like Fast Advance goes against that entirely. Never Advance definitely ties into this, and a more traditional glacier-style deck ties into it as well. I also think the kind of person who's attracted to competitive Netrunner - which is, in turn, what sets the general meta - is the kind of person who doesn't like bluffing because it's high-variance and hard to optimise around. Mushin and AOYCR and PE as an archetype all get a lot of poo poo from competitive players, so I think the hivemind that sets the meta is down on the idea of too much randomness/surprise/bluffing in general. Even then you do still see it sometimes, like Dave Hoyland's Worlds game against Timmy Wong when a GFI sat on the table for ten turns or something insane. Zephro fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 18:01
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Some people have been rumouring Core Set v2.0 with some of the rotated cards being merged back in; one example being Beale in for Astro, another being Reina for Noise. I doubt there's anything concrete about it tho, and the fine lads on Run Last Click didn't know much more in their year retrospective either. It would be kinda nice to purge parasite and datasucker from the game though!
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Jan 24, 2017 18:02
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Plavski posted:Some people have been rumouring Core Set v2.0 with some of the rotated cards being merged back in; one example being Beale in for Astro, another being Reina for Noise. I doubt there's anything concrete about it tho, and the fine lads on Run Last Click didn't know much more in their year retrospective either. It would be kinda nice to purge parasite and datasucker from the game though!
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Jan 24, 2017 18:05
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CodfishCartographer posted:How do you even score out a 4/2 or 5/3 these days with ice and protection as weak as it is? Aside from Fast Advancing it out without advancing it beforehand, I guess. Or threatening to just blow them up if they touch the agenda. My buddy won a store champ last weekend with a Titan rush deck (dropping a single corp game in grand finals, apparently). If people are going to be installing $5 hardware that doesn't do poo poo vs cheap gear checks to facilitate their $4-5 breakers, IAAing an Oaktown or GFI behind an ice wall and a lotus field is a great way to win games. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 18:05
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FFG need to get off their balls and ban some poo poo. The MWL is too weak a solution as players just drop a bunch of cards from their decks and keep playing busted poo poo. No half measures - just loving ban every problem card and keep them banned unless someone stands in front of the design team and explains in excruciating detail why a card needs to come off the ban list.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:21
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i hate datasucker E: hate hate hate it
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Jan 24, 2017 18:41
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Personally, I think Datasucker itself is perfectly fine--it's Parasite that's really the problem. Of course, I'm also just a big fan of the general Andysucker rig, so I'm probably biased, but I like stacking up small run bonuses, and I don't think Datasucker is particularly out of line, unless it's letting you instantly trash ice.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:50
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