Rodatose posted:

that's what paranoid white survivalists do; the fact that that's what you think of makes me think you don't know many people who belong to groups that would actually be targeted by an authoritarian right wing regime

Rodatose posted:

that's what paranoid white survivalists in the mountains do; the fact that that's what you think of makes me think you don't know many people who belong to groups that would actually be targeted by an authoritarian right wing regime

stone cold posted:

that's because you sympathize more with Nazis than with victims of Nazis, hth

Pseudo-God posted:

No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power.

Also, I find it very strange how you muster up the nerve to attribute intent to people you debate with, especially since you know nothing about me. As someone whose people have been the subject of ethnic cleansing and genocide, and who experienced this first hand in living memory, I am especially sensitive to angry mobs and nationalist hatred (1999 Kosovo War). Finally, since you have branded me sympathetic to Nazis, how far do you think I am removed from being the actual target of these beatings? How much more do I have to say before I am marked for being a Nazi myself?

SSNeoman posted:

Legit waiting for remixes

And also everyone else's hot takes before I reveal the twist

Rodatose posted:

It's not about it being OK, it's that the trust in official actors to act even-handedly and defend those who are most vulnerable has eroded to a point where everyone is already building up their own defenses, at national and local levels

Pseudo-God posted:

So you can clearly see, as I can, that our system is heading into a dangerous point where citizens will start turning on each other at some point in the near future. Unlike you, I see the act of punching people in the streets, no matter how reprehensible their views, is only going to accelerate this process. If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster.

Pseudo-God posted:

No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power.

Also, I find it very strange how you muster up the nerve to attribute intent to people you debate with, especially since you know nothing about me. As someone whose people have been the subject of ethnic cleansing and genocide, and who experienced this first hand in living memory, I am especially sensitive to angry mobs and nationalist hatred (1999 Kosovo War). Finally, since you have branded me sympathetic to Nazis, how far do you think I am removed from being the actual target of these beatings? How much more do I have to say before I am marked for being a Nazi myself?

Pseudo-God posted:

So you can clearly see, as I can, that our system is heading into a dangerous point where citizens will start turning on each other at some point in the near future. Unlike you, I see the act of punching people in the streets, no matter how reprehensible their views, is only going to accelerate this process. If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster.

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

what, was the knockout when all the nazis in the actually-nazi black bloc bought him beers and he drank himself into a stupor

because if he's passed out drunk then people should totally draw on him, drawing on a passed-out nazi is cool and good in my book

Pseudo-God posted:

No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power.

Also, I find it very strange how you muster up the nerve to attribute intent to people you debate with, especially since you know nothing about me. As someone whose people have been the subject of ethnic cleansing and genocide, and who experienced this first hand in living memory, I am especially sensitive to angry mobs and nationalist hatred (1999 Kosovo War). Finally, since you have branded me sympathetic to Nazis, how far do you think I am removed from being the actual target of these beatings? How much more do I have to say before I am marked for being a Nazi myself?

Flesh Forge posted:

Mass murder, ethnic cleansing: These are just expressions of politics guys, just like democracy!!

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

having positive opinions about genocide isn't the same thing as doing a genocide and does not warrant the same response

for instance, if a guy is saying genocide is cool and good then i might be like "dude that's hosed up you're hosed up" but if he's actually started a genocide in his backyard, like he set up his own shower facility in a tool shed and is inviting all his jewish neighbors over, then i might do more than just tell him "dude that's hosed up you're hosed up"

Naomi Shulman posted:

"Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than ‘politics,’” wrote Shulman, whose mother Elizabeth was born in Munich in 1934 and grew up in Nazi Germany. “They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.”

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

nice comeback

Calibanibal posted:

You have found a scroll of genocide!

>r

What class of monsters do you wish to genocide?

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

some pretty solid debate & discussion itt

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

having positive opinions about genocide isn't the same thing as doing a genocide and does not warrant the same response

for instance, if a guy is saying genocide is cool and good then i might be like "dude that's hosed up you're hosed up" but if he's actually started a genocide in his backyard, like he set up his own shower facility in a tool shed and is inviting all his jewish neighbors over, then i might do more than just tell him "dude that's hosed up you're hosed up"

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

advocating violence is bad in any context, i don't get why this is hard

Pseudo-God posted:

If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster.

Flesh Forge posted:

Working to implement genocide and ethnic cleansing for a decade: same as thinking about it guys!! Really there's NO WAY it could happen here!

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

idgi, what does "working to implement it" entail, like did he write a book or something or has he been amassing zyklon b and developing jew-sniffing death showers to secretly deploy at truck stops across the country

stone cold posted:

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

no, that's a way of propagating an idea and attempting to build support/a movement, the fact that he failed is a sign that the system as it currently exists is working as intended

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

idgi, what does "working to implement it" entail, like did he write a book or something or has he been amassing zyklon b and developing jew-sniffing death showers to secretly deploy at truck stops across the country

Pseudo-God posted:

I really hate to "pull rank" about who suffered more, since it is very unhelpful and distracting, but you brought the oppression olympics yourself by calling me a Nazi sympathizer. So let me try to explain this in another way.

If we accept that Nazis have a special status as true evil and are to be hunted down wherever they are found, the natural consequence is that Nazis will be free to be attacked carte blanche. Who gets to decide who is a Nazi or not? Well you might say, his opinions give him away, this guy is clearly a Nazi, therefore he brought him on himself. But since there is no clear line of what is a Nazi or not, and when you leave the judgement to the mobs, people who are not Nazis but might have racist opinions are caught up in beatings (opinions such as Jewish bankers, race realism, standard white supremacists). If you don't intervene, the list of acceptable targets increases with time, if you intervene, you risk of being labeled a Nazi and are subject to the beating yourself. This is what I meant when I compared Nazis to right-wingers and centrists. I fully understand your point, I just disagree with it.