Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed. |
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Yes | 183 | 49.06% | |
No | 190 | 50.94% | |
Total: | 328 votes |
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Rodatose posted:that's what paranoid white survivalists do; the fact that that's what you think of makes me think you don't know many people who belong to groups that would actually be targeted by an authoritarian right wing regime In fairness, people actually were trying to dismantle the sexist, racist patriarchy. You know the old saying: "Its not paranoia if people actually are out to get you".
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:35 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:44 |
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Rodatose posted:that's what paranoid white survivalists in the mountains do; the fact that that's what you think of makes me think you don't know many people who belong to groups that would actually be targeted by an authoritarian right wing regime most of my friends are gay so pretty much all of them would be targeted but none of them really are in doom and gloom mode about the trump well one is, but he also got harassed by people and accused of voting trump the day after the election (he didn't and was/is terrified of the trump) so it was pretty
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:37 |
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Like, people who have done no crime are being detained in airport right now because of an executive order targeting a religious group being enforced, it's not exactly a tom clancy fantasy.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:37 |
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stone cold posted:that's because you sympathize more with Nazis than with victims of Nazis, hth No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power. Also, I find it very strange how you muster up the nerve to attribute intent to people you debate with, especially since you know nothing about me. As someone whose people have been the subject of ethnic cleansing and genocide, and who experienced this first hand in living memory, I am especially sensitive to angry mobs and nationalist hatred. Finally, since you have branded me sympathetic to Nazis, how far do you think I am removed from being the actual target of these beatings? How much more do I have to say before I am marked for being a Nazi myself? Pseudo-God fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jan 30, 2017 |
# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:37 |
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Pseudo-God posted:No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power. How much do you honestly think universal principles will protect you when you're not the one in power?
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:40 |
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SSNeoman posted:Legit waiting for remixes what, was the knockout when all the nazis in the actually-nazi black bloc bought him beers and he drank himself into a stupor because if he's passed out drunk then people should totally draw on him, drawing on a passed-out nazi is cool and good in my book
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:40 |
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Rodatose posted:It's not about it being OK, it's that the trust in official actors to act even-handedly and defend those who are most vulnerable has eroded to a point where everyone is already building up their own defenses, at national and local levels So you can clearly see, as I can, that our system is heading into a dangerous point where citizens will start turning on each other at some point in the near future. Unlike you, I see the act of punching people in the streets, no matter how reprehensible their views, is only going to accelerate this process. If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:41 |
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Mass murder, ethnic cleansing: These are just expressions of politics guys, just like democracy!!
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:41 |
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Pseudo-God posted:So you can clearly see, as I can, that our system is heading into a dangerous point where citizens will start turning on each other at some point in the near future. Unlike you, I see the act of punching people in the streets, no matter how reprehensible their views, is only going to accelerate this process. If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster. If it takes the destruction of an ossified political culture that has placed so much wealth in the hands of a few, so be it.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:44 |
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Pseudo-God posted:No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power. actually they are irredeemably evil punch em all
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:44 |
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Pseudo-God posted:So you can clearly see, as I can, that our system is heading into a dangerous point where citizens will start turning on each other at some point in the near future. Unlike you, I see the act of punching people in the streets, no matter how reprehensible their views, is only going to accelerate this process. If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster. The muslim ban came against seven countries who sent no immigrants that committed terrorist acts against the US. The holocaust came against groups who committed no violence against Nazis. You'd normally be right about reciprocity, but fascists don't need an excuse to enact a plan; they will make one up. They've already put it into their heads that the extermination of enemy races is what is necessary for the uplifting of their people.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:45 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:what, was the knockout when all the nazis in the actually-nazi black bloc bought him beers and he drank himself into a stupor lol look at the nazi supporter here
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:45 |
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If you're unwilling to fight for your ideology you never really held to it in the first place.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:47 |
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Pseudo-God posted:No, I just have higher principles than you it seems. You have worked yourself up to believe that all your enemies are irredeemably evil so it's ok to attack them wherever you find them, not realizing that over time, the circle of enemies expands more to include first Nazis, the Nationalists, then centrists, then anyone who defends these people. It is possible to have universal principles that apply to people you find reprehensible, because ultimately THEY PROTECT YOU when then the other side gets power. My great grandparents were tortured by the Japanese for the crime of being schoolteachers teaching English. My grandfather had to hide my great aunts so the soldiers wouldn't rape them. If we're gonna play atrocity olympics, maybe consider that the people who directly caused ethnic cleansing in your home country, and the people advocated for genocide of non-white peoples aren't exactly gonna listen to you going "but what about discourse " I'm glad that you think nazis aren't irredeemably evil, tho. Were you brave enough to let people know on Holocaust Remembrance Day the other day? Did you sit there wringing your hands over Eichmann? Keep equivocating Nazism with centrists and nationalists, you're not comically missing the point.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:48 |
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Flesh Forge posted:Mass murder, ethnic cleansing: These are just expressions of politics guys, just like democracy!! having positive opinions about genocide isn't the same thing as doing a genocide and does not warrant the same response for instance, if a guy is saying genocide is cool and good then i might be like "dude that's hosed up you're hosed up" but if he's actually started a genocide in his backyard, like he set up his own shower facility in a tool shed and is inviting all his jewish neighbors over, then i might do more than just tell him "dude that's hosed up you're hosed up"
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:48 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:having positive opinions about genocide isn't the same thing as doing a genocide and does not warrant the same response -a white person
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:49 |
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for what I'm sure is the nth time Naomi Shulman posted:"Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than ‘politics,’” wrote Shulman, whose mother Elizabeth was born in Munich in 1934 and grew up in Nazi Germany. “They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.”
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:51 |
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nice comeback
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:51 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:nice comeback there's no justification for being a nazi might wanna put away your white sheet before you post
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:52 |
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advocating violence is bad in any context, i don't get why this is hard
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:52 |
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You have found a scroll of genocide! >r What class of monsters do you wish to genocide?
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:54 |
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Calibanibal posted:You have found a scroll of genocide! >@ e: actually it's always mindflayers. Those fuckers ain't getting into my brain! ... any more
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:55 |
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i typed "whitey" and nothing happened, clearly all the developers are nazis and need a punching
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:56 |
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It's not like a disagreement over tax policy It's pretty simple. "Can you coexist in a society with people of other innate statuses?" If the answer is "yes" congratulations, you can exist in a peace-loving society! If the answer is "no, i'm going to live in the remote mountains of idaho," congratulations, you aren't causing harm. If the answer is "But do we need the black race? I think i'm going to start getting into politics and spreading a genocide-positive message" then you and the peace-loving society can't thrive side-by-side. There's no use allowing those ideas to have even the chance to take root on the chance they bring fruit and destabilize society. Germany has banned swastikas and nazi symbolism, and teaches a deep sense of guilt about their actions in WWII. Germany is one of the developed countries that's been least susceptible to the neo-nationalist swing that worldwide politics has seen lately.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:58 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:some pretty solid debate & discussion itt
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:58 |
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Punching nazi's is all part of the checks and balances of social interaction. You can't talk fascists out of fascism, so it's best for society to incentivise them to at least keep it to themselves and to make it clear that it's unacceptable to be a fascist. And you do that by punching them in the face. And you can't wring your hands and punch somebody at the same time, so to me, the choice is clear.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:58 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:having positive opinions about genocide isn't the same thing as doing a genocide and does not warrant the same response Working to implement genocide and ethnic cleansing for a decade: same as thinking about it guys!! Really there's NO WAY it could happen here!
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 03:59 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:advocating violence is bad in any context, i don't get why this is hard that's right. if you're getting raped or murdered, just lay back and take it. and goddamn it if the Nazis advocate death of all nonwhites, i guess all the minorities just have to take one for the team. u should stop going full strasserite
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:00 |
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You know if you're are so loving concerned for the welfare of the poor Nazi, you should be glad we're punching them now instead of waiting until we actually have to go out and murder them.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:00 |
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Pseudo-God posted:If people start getting in their heads that physically fighting their opponents is ok, it will only make things worse and lead to the collapse faster. Yeah just like all those other times throughout history that people attacking fascists has lead to either societal collapse or the fascists taking power faster (though I guess you could argue societal collapse is sometimes better than fascists taking power)! You seem to be operating off of an assumption you're making entirely based upon faith. Like, I see no rational reason to believe that punching Nazis will somehow spiral out of control into violence against non-evil groups. Like, if you could give some examples of this actually happening I'd like to see it and would even change my mind. Generally speaking, people who are willing to hurt non-Nazis/fascists are going to do so regardless; people punching Nazis isn't going to somehow make them worse than they were before.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:02 |
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Pittsburgh lambic yells as the train pulls up to the camps, "at least we didn't use any punches against Nazis, let this be my comforting gift to you "
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:02 |
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Flesh Forge posted:Working to implement genocide and ethnic cleansing for a decade: same as thinking about it guys!! Really there's NO WAY it could happen here! idgi, what does "working to implement it" entail, like did he write a book or something or has he been amassing zyklon b and developing jew-sniffing death showers to secretly deploy at truck stops across the country
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:03 |
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Public speaking and getting involved in politics is a way of implementing views you don't go out and make speeches about things you don't want to happen. People who advocate things want them to happen, and hope to gather more likeminded people to put it into motion.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:04 |
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no, that's a way of propagating an idea and attempting to build support/a movement, the fact that he failed is a sign that the system as it currently exists is working as intended
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:05 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:idgi, what does "working to implement it" entail, like did he write a book or something or has he been amassing zyklon b and developing jew-sniffing death showers to secretly deploy at truck stops across the country active recruitment, insertion of white supremacists into law enforcement, getting a giant Semite whispering in the presidents ear? thats all cool and good punching Nazis? But what about discourse you're so painfully not threatened by this regime that it's not even funny like you literally can't feel any empathy for people who can't pass a paper bag test
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:05 |
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I really hate to "pull rank" about who suffered more, since it is very unhelpful and distracting, but you brought the oppression olympics yourself by calling me a Nazi sympathizer. So let me try to explain this in another way. If we accept that Nazis have a special status as true evil and are to be hunted down wherever they are found, the natural consequence is that Nazis will be free to be attacked carte blanche. Who gets to decide who is a Nazi or not? Well you might say, his opinions give him away, this guy is clearly a Nazi, therefore he brought him on himself. But since there is no clear line of what is a Nazi or not, and when you leave the judgement to the mobs, people who are not Nazis but might have racist opinions are caught up in beatings (opinions such as Jewish bankers, race realism, standard white supremacists). If you don't intervene, the list of acceptable targets increases with time, if you intervene, you risk of being labeled a Nazi and are subject to the beating yourself. This is what I meant when I compared Nazis to right-wingers and centrists. I fully understand your point, I just disagree with it.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:05 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:no, that's a way of propagating an idea and attempting to build support/a movement, the fact that he failed is a sign that the system as it currently exists is working as intended no active neo Nazis operating in the us nosiree *ignores adl, splc, hate crimes statistics*
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:06 |
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standard white supremacists
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:06 |
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:idgi, what does "working to implement it" entail, like did he write a book or something or has he been amassing zyklon b and developing jew-sniffing death showers to secretly deploy at truck stops across the country You know this thing with politicians that run for office and dudes that work with them and advise them and then stuff happens?? Maybe you haven't heard of it a lot of people don't understand it.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:06 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:44 |
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Pseudo-God posted:I really hate to "pull rank" about who suffered more, since it is very unhelpful and distracting, but you brought the oppression olympics yourself by calling me a Nazi sympathizer. So let me try to explain this in another way. i don't think you "get" stone cold
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 04:06 |