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Idk about the Ender's Game comparison, because it's a story very much about stolen innocence. Tanya, is far from that. She's trying to game the system, and unfortunately gets way more than she bargained for.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 02:32 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 13:21 |
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It's a very surface level comparison yeah. But there are some similar scenes. Like the conversation between Anderson and Bean in Shadow plays off kinda similarly.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 02:44 |
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I can give you a little bit on current history based on the book. Youve got the main super state "the federation" in the middle surrounded by a load of smaller states, in particular france. The federation and the surrounding states disagree on borders, with the federation using military superiority to claim a border several miles larger than the surrounding nations think it is. Prior to Tanya joining the military there were a few minor border skirmishes but nothing serious, the kind of things that the nation's don't acknowledge on an official level. Once Tanya joins these skirmishes and aggressions start increasing. It is implied that the outside nations are acting irrationally (basically that being x is specifically twisting the situation to cause conditions for war). The battle where Tanya gets "injured" is chronologically the start of the war as similar situations occur across the whole of the border and war is declared between the federation and its neighbours. As of episode 4 it's still very much a borders thing that hasn't really affected much in any nation. This is what Tanya has changed. Not only has she screwed herself over as an individual, she has defined the concept of a world war and suggested that the federation gets properly aggressive in pursuing it. In trying to impress her boss, she has triggered the events that will change the war.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 02:49 |
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Well I say it hasn't affected much. The federation is on ration cards as they play border defence on all fronts but everyone still has a decent looking quality of life.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 02:51 |
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I don't know how much of it is the original author's POV and how much of it is Tanya's character (although at some point she did make mention to the Chicago school so I wonder...) but the idea that people are rational actors is a fairly modern one and she keeps trying to apply cold hard corporate logic leading to unexpected factors plus the "irrationality" of the people in this period throwing her plans off course. If it really is supposed to be Being X influencing other nations to become more belligerent it's not really a necessary plot point for the writer to include because nations even nowadays do not act completely "rationally" as uh, highlighted by very recent events. It's a big weakness of modern fiction writing about the past where for some reason the writer always assumes that people in power are rational actors exploiting this and that to achieve their goals when for the vast majority of human history no, leaders really did believe that God wanted them to go and kill millions of unbelievers and that they weren't just coldly manipulating religion to their ends and so forth.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 03:18 |
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As an addendum The July Crisis was pretty much the platonic embodiment of everyone acting in all sorts of irrational and contradictory ways.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 03:24 |
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Eej posted:I don't know how much of it is the original author's POV and how much of it is Tanya's character (although at some point she did make mention to the Chicago school so I wonder...) but the idea that people are rational actors is a fairly modern one and she keeps trying to apply cold hard corporate logic leading to unexpected factors plus the "irrationality" of the people in this period throwing her plans off course. If it really is supposed to be Being X influencing other nations to become more belligerent it's not really a necessary plot point for the writer to include because nations even nowadays do not act completely "rationally" as uh, highlighted by very recent events. I should post the next block of text tomorrow, the one wherein the salesman dies
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 03:37 |
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is the laid off guy the glasses guy with blue hair
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 06:54 |
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Eej posted:I don't know how much of it is the original author's POV and how much of it is Tanya's character (although at some point she did make mention to the Chicago school so I wonder...) but the idea that people are rational actors is a fairly modern one and she keeps trying to apply cold hard corporate logic leading to unexpected factors plus the "irrationality" of the people in this period throwing her plans off course. If it really is supposed to be Being X influencing other nations to become more belligerent it's not really a necessary plot point for the writer to include because nations even nowadays do not act completely "rationally" as uh, highlighted by very recent events. I saw that as more Tanya's specific character, rather than author suggesting the world was that way. Tanya's a total sociopath and doesn't instinctively understand that other people have desires beyond their own self interest, so of course she blames them for doing something she can't see as anything but stupid.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 09:58 |
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hoobajoo posted:I saw that as more Tanya's specific character, rather than author suggesting the world was that way. Tanya's a total sociopath and doesn't instinctively understand that other people have desires beyond their own self interest, so of course she blames them for doing something she can't see as anything but stupid. She seems like that but she also sent her friend back to the rear so even if she can't admit it she is capable of emotion like that. Her face still weirds me out though.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 22:25 |
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drilldo squirt posted:She seems like that but she also sent her friend back to the rear so even if she can't admit it she is capable of emotion like that. Her face still weirds me out though. She rationalised that as just trying to look like a good CO and a good person to increase her chances for promotion and I'm inclined to believe that. Kinda wish that was called up during the dinner after her "bad reputation" was mentioned.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 22:28 |
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:She rationalised that as just trying to look like a good CO and a good person to increase her chances for promotion and I'm inclined to believe that. Kinda wish that was called up during the dinner after her "bad reputation" was mentioned. She seems kinda hosed up emotionally so I wouldn't count on her being a reliable narrator. Though I might be giving anime to much credit.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 22:41 |
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Thinking that Tanya is a sociopath is probably closest to the truth without being the truth.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 22:50 |
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drilldo squirt posted:She seems like that but she also sent her friend back to the rear so even if she can't admit it she is capable of emotion like that. Her face still weirds me out though. It's a bit ambiguous whether she has any genuine attachment to Viktoriya, but my personal take is because Tanya bases her self-worth on doing her job well, and this is an extension of that. She doesn't care about her as a human being, but in protecting her and helping her move up, she fulfills the role she's supposed to play in the military. Tanya's also obsessed with organizational rules, and it follows that if bad soldiers should be punished (read: killed), good soldiers should be rewarded. I'd say the most affection Tanya has for Viktoriya is acknowledging that she ended up being an obedient and hardworking subordinate, which is exactly what gets you promoted in Japanese salaryman culture.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 23:03 |
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The salaryman had friends and interests outside of work. I'd say that Tanya is probably interested in her and has some low level of attachment, but they definitely aren't friends at this stage.
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 23:14 |
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Namtab posted:The salaryman had friends and interests outside of work. I'd say that Tanya is probably interested in her and has some low level of attachment, but they definitely aren't friends at this stage. Did he? I didn't see anything in ep. 2 to imply he had a non-work life at all. Or is this some light novel knowledge?
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# ? Jan 29, 2017 23:58 |
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I already posted it. Basically he's a closet otaku who made friends with similar interests as him. He was a big believer in separating his work life and free time, choosing to complete jobs efficiently and to the letter of what was requested (without thought for creativity or emotions) in order to maximise free time. That's probably the reason for the extreme punishment in the officer training camp, she had a disobedient subordinate and punished him in the most efficient way the rules allowed for. The book mentions in the scene where he meets X that he has a lawyer friend he plays fps games with.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 00:38 |
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hoobajoo posted:Did he? I didn't see anything in ep. 2 to imply he had a non-work life at all. Or is this some light novel knowledge? Yeah they gave us the bare minimum so far. I hope they don't go further into his previous life unless it's about to have a direct bearing on events in Tanya's world.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 05:33 |
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I'm only watching the shorts and some clips but both are good.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 06:11 |
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The episodes so far have been pretty good although the first episode doesn't really do much to give it you an impression of what the story is about. It's also one of the top selling anime this season just below cash grab gacha game anime and konosuba. Pacing is really strong after the first episode, everything flows really well and your constantly guessing how Tanya is going to gently caress himself or how being x is going troll him
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 15:10 |
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Selling? In preorders?
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 15:59 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:The episodes so far have been pretty good although the first episode doesn't really do much to give it you an impression of what the story is about. It's also one of the top selling anime this season just below cash grab gacha game anime and konosuba. The first episode was a pretty bold choice; if you watch the second episode it works great as a package, but just the first episode gives you none of Tanya's inner life, which is to me what makes the show stand out. I can totally imagine someone watching just the first episode, not getting what the fuss is about, and missing out. This is a problem Japanese doesn't have, but I don't know whether Tanya should be referred to as 'he' or 'she'. I can kinda see the argument from both sides.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 18:51 |
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Mordaedil posted:Selling? In preorders? Yeah preorder ratings basically
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 19:20 |
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hoobajoo posted:The first episode was a pretty bold choice; if you watch the second episode it works great as a package, but just the first episode gives you none of Tanya's inner life, which is to me what makes the show stand out. I can totally imagine someone watching just the first episode, not getting what the fuss is about, and missing out. I don't think that's a problem worth focusing on, but I'd say to see what self identifying pronoun Tanya uses
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 19:32 |
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Namtab posted:I don't think that's a problem worth focusing on, but I'd say to see what self identifying pronoun Tanya uses She won't, Japanese doesn't have gendered pronouns. I agree it's not a major thing, though.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 19:42 |
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hoobajoo posted:She won't, Japanese doesn't have gendered pronouns. I agree it's not a major thing, though. Er, some might argue that kare and kanojo would be fairly equivalent to he and she?
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 19:49 |
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hoobajoo posted:The first episode was a pretty bold choice; if you watch the second episode it works great as a package, but just the first episode gives you none of Tanya's inner life, which is to me what makes the show stand out. I can totally imagine someone watching just the first episode, not getting what the fuss is about, and missing out. It was a pretty dumb choice and I'm sure it might have lost a lot of viewers at the cost of... well, they didn't really get anything by showing it aside from essentially war porn. Also I don't see what's wrong with just saying "she" for Tanya. It's reincarnation, it's supposed to happen all the time and you don't carry your gender with you when you are reborn. Unless her past life suddenly gets thrust back into the focus (I hope not).
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 19:50 |
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darkgray posted:Er, some might argue that kare and kanojo would be fairly equivalent to he and she? Yeah Japan does have gendered pronouns. They're just less common
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 20:02 |
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hoobajoo posted:She won't, Japanese doesn't have gendered pronouns. I agree it's not a major thing, though. lol Watashi, boku and ore sure aren't gender pronouns, no sirree. I believe Tanya refers to self as watashi, which is the least helpful. I guess I could re-watch to see if a boku sneaks in there.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 20:25 |
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Eej posted:It was a pretty dumb choice and I'm sure it might have lost a lot of viewers at the cost of... well, they didn't really get anything by showing it aside from essentially war porn. I like the choice from an artistic viewpoint, the first episode is essentially showing you how the world views Tanya, and the contrast between that and the reveal of Tanya sees the world is an interesting framing device. But as a marketing decision it seems awfully dangerous, though from what I hear the show is doing well, so I guess it worked out. darkgray posted:Er, some might argue that kare and kanojo would be fairly equivalent to he and she? Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking of them as pronouns per se, but I guess they basically are. Though at any rate, Tanya or Being X are never going to use those to describe her anyway, and they're the only two that really count for this assessment. I don't think either pronoun is wrong, fwiw, though I find 'she' more natural since the story's emphasis is clearly on her current life and identity. Plus, Tanya exists by following society's rules and accepting her place therein it, so she'd probably internalize her new gender relatively quickly. Mordaedil posted:lol They aren't explicitly male or female, boku and ore are just less likely to be used by women. Plenty of tomboy characters have used boku and tough lady badasses have used ore without thereby claiming to be men. hoobajoo fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 30, 2017 |
# ? Jan 30, 2017 20:31 |
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I refer to her as she while Tanya generally does seem to still somewhat self-identifies as her previous salaryman life at the same time he seems very solidly the type of person to just roll with new opportunities; objecting to being dressed like a doll can be interpreted as also largely stemming as being a character who generally just dislikes anything that isn't purely utilitarian in usage.
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 21:09 |
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Mordaedil posted:lol they're way more related to manners than explicitly gendered watashi is a catch all for politeness, boku signifies naivety or inferiority, ore means you think you got a big dick, and watakushi is big dick politeness
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 23:16 |
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I'm double ore
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 23:31 |
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im boke as gently caress bro
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# ? Jan 30, 2017 23:33 |
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What the heck!
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 00:51 |
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hoobajoo posted:They aren't explicitly male or female, boku and ore are just less likely to be used by women. Plenty of tomboy characters have used boku and tough lady badasses have used ore without thereby claiming to be men. Futaba Anzu posted:they're way more related to manners than explicitly gendered Ore, ore, ore, ore, ore, ore.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 08:40 |
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Mordaedil posted:Right, that's the point, isn't it? You just said it didn't exist. It doesn't exist in the same manner as in English, but that wasn't what you said. I think I'm just using a more technical or specific definition of 'gendered' than you are. At any rate, to clarify what I meant, the larger point is it's very natural to consistently refer to someone in Japanese in ways that leave gender undefined, so the problem of whether we should call Tanya 'he' or 'she' is one that's only a problem outside of its native language, which is interesting.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 09:37 |
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Agreed, languages are fun and interesting.
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 14:31 |
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Fun things about languages aside, I don't want to talk about Tanya gender identityw
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 18:38 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 13:21 |
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Would you say Tanya is more of a Hitler or a Goebbels?
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# ? Jan 31, 2017 22:59 |