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Calling an all-around deck "real" is pretty dumb and underestimates the effectiveness of things like hyper aggro. You're talking about a well rounded deck, which is called mid-range. Combo, aggro, or control decks can all be just as "real" and the game is still so new that we have no data on the meta or how archetypes will shake out. And Rey is completely fine as is.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:25
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I double upgraded Rey (Han partner) with DL44s the other day and it's pretty funny to see nested actions one-shot a Balatik and hope to do it often regularly. Is it possible to kill a Jango before he uses his activated dice with some combo of weapons in this manner? I can only think of having activated Han with some ranged damage showing already.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:37
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guts and bolts posted:My thinking is that as the cardpool expands, aggro will naturally find itself a niche but won't overwhelm the game in the way that it currently seems to, for me; and also that midrange decks will become a much more viable option as people find that right groove (survive past an aggro deck's spam, but finish off control decks before you're locked down). To that end, I'm down for getting advice on eLuke shells from anyone in the thread, or hearing about experiences or whatever. My eLuke deck feels decent but not really good, and I'm struggling to come up with changes for it. IBAT doesn't seem like the answer, so maybe I put in some OwtF? Do I just punt on Jango matchups and include Dug In/Defensive Position when Jango currently dominates the meta? What card sleeves should I use? (I'm currently contemplating some lime green for the deck and black for the characters/battlefield.) You're thinking too much like a Magic player. There is no "survive past an aggro deck's spam"; the damage keeps accelerating as the deck drops out more upgrades, and even if you defeat a character most upgrades get redeployed and the dice keep rolling. Your only option is to burn them down faster than they burn you, either by generating more damage or by continually mitigating their damage with protection or control. There is no point in the game where the "mana curve" shifts so that the aggro deck doesn't have as powerful of options as a "midrange" or control deck. You can't play a card like a big creature or enchantment that essentially nullifies their board state. There are no stalemate rounds in Destiny where attacking would be pointless. Resources don't ramp the way mana ramps. You get your guaranteed 2 per round, then a random extra amount depending on what you roll. Even with full upgrades on your characters you can still whiff on extra resources. Furthermore, even the most expensive card in the game, AT-ST, can be played on the first round with good luck. Control is also fundamentally different. You cannot deny somebody improving their board state on their turn and removal options are few and expensive. Really all you can do is alter and remove their dice. Altering is weak because of rerolling with a discard, and either option only creates tempo by delaying until they roll all the same dice next round. Finally, Rey is the hero side version of Jango. Both are powerful when used correctly, but not game breaking, and neither is likely to be changed. The Falcon doesn't need the errata, Hyperspace Jump does.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:54
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Bottom Liner posted:Calling an all-around deck "real" is pretty dumb and underestimates the effectiveness of things like hyper aggro. You're talking about a well rounded deck, which is called mid-range. Combo, aggro, or control decks can all be just as "real" and the game is still so new that we have no data on the meta or how archetypes will shake out. And Rey is completely fine as is. It's more about consistency to me. Hyperloop decks, and various other decks, are gimmicky by admission, I think. I don't think decks need to be all-around to be real, or that hyper-aggro decks aren't real. Gimmicky decks aren't even necessarily bad, nor do I think negatively about them, and in fact I'd call my eHan/eRey deck somewhat gimmicky - as it relies on a high degree of solitaire play and lacks interactivity with the opponent, and uses combos that I sometimes don't even see to function at peak efficacy. When I say a deck is a "real" deck, I don't mean that it's somehow more or less legitimate than a gimmicky deck, just that it is much more consistent, and seems to be crystalline in its design. Jango/Veers feels like a deck that is gimmicky right now, and will likely be supplanted by something else to replace the Veers in that deck; you don't even use Veers's ability text, he's there to get access to red cards and for his die faces. Jango/Veers is hyper-aggressive, sure, but it also requires a nut roll to beat specific decks or you essentially start floundering, based on my experience at the weekly FLGS nights and the tourney I attended. This does not make Jango/Veers a bad deck or an ineffective deck; I just also fully expect it to cease existing with the expansion of the card pool. Conversely, I think Vader/Raider is more difficult to straight up call a top-tier deck. It's very strong, to me, but after playing around against it with multiple deck archetypes I can see its weaknesses and understand why people don't run it more often. That said, the core concept feels basically like something that will be added upon with expansion content, not erased from the metagame. Jango/Veers is already starting to see a downswing in how often people run it, for example, precisely because alternatives that are more consistent are now commonly built netlists. The game being so new is why I think hyper-aggressive aggro decks took root the way that they have. Your ability to control your opponent's resources are limited; your ability to exhaust characters without them rolling out don't exist; etc. There's a whole lot of design space that SWD can expand into, and from my perspective, nearly all the directions they can go in will weaken directly straight-aggro Red Deck Wins strategies. Once again, I don't think control decks aren't real, and I know what a midrange concept is. I actually pointed those things out in the original post. I anticipate control decks to get stronger as the card pool expands instead of weaker; I expect midrange decks to get slightly more powerful; I expect aggro decks to still be powerful, but less overwhelmingly so as more cards become available, and "turn dudes sideways forever, then hit Fight Dirty" becomes less and less of a viable strategy. Those decks are all "real" decks, because they have a core strategy designed to win the game and you can see how to execute that plan. A lot of decks, however, that get played at the FLGS or get posted on swdestinydb are basically just "what are all the good cards in this color?" combined into a deck. There's no definitive strategy that seems to be in place, just "these are the good red cards, so I put them in." I also pointed out that I have been doing this when building decks and I'm trying to learn more about the game to stop. Like, I was considering putting OwtF into the eLuke/Ackbar shell I have, but really, I'm not sure that helps me win? It's mostly just that OwtF is a good card, and it's blue, and I can play it, so gently caress it, it goes in. Cardpool being small, and all. Like, any time that I build a deck either from a netlist, a friend's build, or on my own, if I find myself sitting on a lot of cards that feel like pitch fodder and dead weight, that is gimmicky, to me. Any deck I build where I am completely beholden to the dice outcomes and have no way of controlling either my opponent's dice or generating specific outcomes for my own dice, it feels gimmicky. That's mostly what I was driving at. Also, w/r/t Rey and the Falcon, I don't think they need to be changed. At all. I think they will be changed, which is not the same thing. Rey has created a shitstorm amongst people I play with because she's perceived as non-interactive and encouraging exactly the kind of playstyle people resented when I would play, say, Noise decks in Netrunner; I'm just going to do my solitaire thing, all the time, no matter what, because that's just what this deck does. I don't think she should be changed, but the likelihood that she does get changed feels real, although it could just be the volume of complaining I've read and heard. The Falcon I'm almost positive will be changed. Hyperloop decks aren't at their peak yet - I'm sure someone will come up with something even more foolproof - and as the cardpool expands the potential for abuse only grows. I highly doubt there won't be a change to how that combo works, and the easiest fix is to errata the Falcon so that it exiles events played from the discard pile. The alternatives have been discussed in this thread, and range from the unnecessary (banning Throne Room) to the weird (errata'ing every card in the combo so it can never happen again).
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Feb 1, 2017 18:57
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Chill la Chill posted:I double upgraded Rey (Han partner) with DL44s the other day and it's pretty funny to see nested actions one-shot a Balatik and hope to do it often regularly. Is it possible to kill a Jango before he uses his activated dice with some combo of weapons in this manner? I can only think of having activated Han with some ranged damage showing already. 1) Rey begins the turn with either a Holdout Blaster or a DL-44 equipped. You have either a DL-44 or a Holdout Blaster in your hand, as well as Scavenge. Infamous is in play. Han should have a Jetpack, probably, and probably a DL-44 or a Blaster of his own, but that's kinda just gravy. 2) Play your Ambush weapon on top of the existing Ambush weapon. You can now go twice consecutively, and Han gets a shield. 3) Tap Infamous to give Scavenge Ambush. Han gets a shield. Scavenge pays for its own action cost. Pick up the Ambush weapon you just overwrote. You still have two consecutive actions at this point. 4) Use one of your actions to play the originally discarded Ambush weapon on top of the one you discarded it with. Han gets a shield. You now can go three times consecutively. 5) Roll out Rey. He can roll out Jango or not. 6) Roll out Han. He can roll out Jango or not, if he did not already. 7) Resolve before he can. EDIT1: It gets really good when you consider that all your increased action economy means you will have huge windows to grab the battlefield, and you should be running Starship Graveyard or Hyperspace Jump to get to it. You can keep Han alive with Second Chances or keep Rey's combo going almost indefinitely with that battlefield in play. It's gross. Also, the combo costs, at most, 1 credit to execute once whatever pieces you want are set up. You can very easily execute a 100-0 kill on almost anyone in the game by round 2 with this combo, provided you roll decently and you got resources in round 1. EDIT2: Benthalus posted:a good post I think that's true... now. I don't think that will necessarily remain true is what I'm getting at. I fully expect that the card design space that we've yet to see explored at all will contain options to, say, exhaust a character without rolling their dice, or will eat their resources, or that there will be more comprehensive upgrade-controlling options beyond Disarm, etc. As of Awakenings and the spoiler'd SoR cards, yeah, aggro doesn't get less scary as time goes on unless you murder their dudes. I'm just not sure it will always stay that way. Removal is scarce and expensive, likewise, for now. It's one of the most obvious directions to move the game in to deliberately strengthen control decks and also precisely because it is so uncommon and costly. I'm not sure what the errata would be for Hyperspace Jump. That it exiles itself? I could see that being the solution, and it would circumvent the need to errata or ban an iconic card like the Falcon. I think the greater issue is that now, when designing Hero/Neutral yellow events, you have to be super careful about how they interact with the Emperor's Throne Room and Falcon together; the problem in this specific instance is the Hyperspace Jump, but the problem that seems to make those loops exist in the first place is actually the Falcon, to me. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 19:02
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The decks are going to feel sorta similar right now, because of the limited card pool. You have ~25 characters. Besides that, 140 cards that can be included in a deck (excluding the one-of battlefield). Card pool is further split by affiliation, Hero or Villain, and then some Neutrals. Then for color, you have 3 spheres plus general. Using an extreme example: If you're running blue heroes only (combinations of Rey, Qui Gon, Luke), 70% of that 140 card pool is unavailable to you, due to color or affiliation. A quarter of the remaining cards are going to be obvious auto-includes. Then maybe a quarter portion of the remaining cards are going to be duds that you would never want in that deck (sorry BB-8!). Now you're only really making a decision on the last ~10-15 cards to fill out your deck. So yeah, they're going to feel similar.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:23
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canyoneer posted:The decks are going to feel sorta similar right now, because of the limited card pool. I agree with most of this post. Obviously it's fuzzy to claim that 25% of the remaining cards are useless and 25% are auto-includes, but I get the gist of your point. I think that should arguably reinforce what I've been saying, though - as the cardpool increases, considering what we have seen very little of (or not at all) in terms of design space, I think it's a safe assumption that aggro decks will lose some of their overwhelming efficacy, and that midrange/control decks will see a boost. Of course we may get the rest of SoR and all the cards are so blindingly fast and aggro-oriented that what we now consider to be hyper-aggro becomes the new midrange option, and I'm only speculating, but I think it's fair to think that as we get more cards and more options, "turn guys sideways forever" will lose some traction.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:31
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guts and bolts posted:I think that's true... now. I don't think that will necessarily remain true is what I'm getting at. Yeah, I picked up on this in your response to Bottom Liner and definitely agree that the game will change as the card pool expands. I really hope they don't emphasize control too much, because in my experience playing Magic it tends to make games longer, more frustrating and less fun. We already have enough frustration when the dice roll poorly for us and/or well for our opponent. Also, I have the feeling that Hyperloop was an anomaly that they just didn't expect. I still think that the Emperor's Throne Room is the real problem as I mentioned in a prior post. The Falcon's special is still only 1/6, and if you want to manipulate that die it takes actions to get there, leaving the die open to manipulation. Claiming ETR allows automatic use of ANY special, which constrains the design space of any card using a special side, far more concerning and difficult to work with than just yellow hero and neutral events.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:35
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One thing Destiny does have in common with Magic, and I think it's true for all card games, is that aggro decks are almost always going to be excessively popular at the beginning of a format. They're so straightforward. I might put together a Jango/Veers deck as a "demo deck" to give to people because it's very simple to say, "here, roll as many of these gun symbols as often as you can". It's the core of Destiny's gameplay in deck form.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:44
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BJPaskoff posted:One thing Destiny does have in common with Magic, and I think it's true for all card games, is that aggro decks are almost always going to be excessively popular at the beginning of a format. They're so straightforward. I might put together a Jango/Veers deck as a "demo deck" to give to people because it's very simple to say, "here, roll as many of these gun symbols as often as you can". It's the core of Destiny's gameplay in deck form. I give my wife a JangoVeers deck for the exact reasons you say. It's also a decent barometer for my other decks, because if they can't deal with JangoVeers at a minimum, then they need to be re-worked.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:47
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Benthalus posted:Yeah, I picked up on this in your response to Bottom Liner and definitely agree that the game will change as the card pool expands. I really hope they don't emphasize control too much, because in my experience playing Magic it tends to make games longer, more frustrating and less fun. We already have enough frustration when the dice roll poorly for us and/or well for our opponent. I think control options and mill decks should be good enough to win games (mill especially - why even have it as an option or as a win-con if it's impossible or unfun to achieve?), but I agree that you don't really want any one archetype completely dominating. In a perfect world, you have effective aggro decks, effective control decks, and effective midrange/tempo options that split the difference. In Awakenings, we got a really strong showing from aggro, and midrange decks seem to be relegated to tier 2 at best, likewise with control. This isn't to suggest that you can't win tourneys or perform at a high level with midrange or control decks, but I think it's fair to say that aggro dominates the metagame and the discussion thereof. Your point about Throne Room is valid, but in ending the round you can potentially create a window for your opponent to do substantial damage; what's more, your opponent can themselves use the Throne Room. The Falcon does not have those constraints. I'm imagining a scenario in which they want to help Padme, who seems on her face to be one of the few Kinda Bad characters in SWD, so there's a yellow event that mills a shitload of cards (think Glimpse the Unthinkable) but that costs a lot. The Falcon completely eliminates the chief disadvantages of a "costs a lot and you can only have 2-ofs in deck anyway" design space - with Throne Room/Falcon you can almost never print a Hero/Neutral yellow event that has those as its drawbacks to justify a strong effect ever again. It's the Falcon that limits that space. Me, personally, I don't think either one should get banned or errata'd, but I highly doubt that Hyperloop and the handshakes that make it possible won't be changed in some way.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:50
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guts and bolts posted:I agree with most of this post. Obviously it's fuzzy to claim that 25% of the remaining cards are useless and 25% are auto-includes, but I get the gist of your point. Yeah, a little bit of hyperbole never hurt anyone Benthalus posted:Yeah, I picked up on this in your response to Bottom Liner and definitely agree that the game will change as the card pool expands. I really hope they don't emphasize control too much, because in my experience playing Magic it tends to make games longer, more frustrating and less fun. We already have enough frustration when the dice roll poorly for us and/or well for our opponent. 35 minutes for a game is already such a tight deadline if any player is taking a while to make decisions. Games will go to time unless you have explosive aggro. Tiebreakers are never perfectly fair and balanced, and it would be bad for the game to see slow-playing control decks exist with the expected win condition of "do some damage, then run out the clock to time and win the tiebreaker" That's what X-Wing had with double Millennium Falcon lists before the regs were changed. If the game went to time, the player who had fully destroyed more points of enemy ships won the game. Small based ships can't cover as much distance as large ones, and have lower health. The strategy against swarms was to zip in, tank damage, fully destroy one or two enemy ships, and then just scoot the faster (damaged) big ships around the playfield until time was called. The fix here was to give half points to players if they destroyed half points on a large ship, but man that was a very crappy negative play experience.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:52
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guts and bolts posted:1) Rey begins the turn with either a Holdout Blaster or a DL-44 equipped. You have either a DL-44 or a Holdout Blaster in your hand, as well as Scavenge. Infamous is in play. Han should have a Jetpack, probably, and probably a DL-44 or a Blaster of his own, but that's kinda just gravy.  I like these convoluted combos a lot more in this game because they don't take as long or as finicky to build like it does with magic. These combos usually only exist in EDH and that format has turns that take too long because it's multiplayer, in addition to mana requirements and finding it in a deck of 100 in the first place. Even in eternal formats, combos are 2-3 pieces only because of deck size and random mulligans. It's nice that destiny has a newer, fresher stance on resource mechanics that borrow from hearthstone/etc with greater chances to get enough resources/dice control in round 1 via discarding and focus actions.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:57
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Design wise I think they've done a great job with the first set of making most cards viable for some type of deck or character combo. There are very few cards that feel unplayable. The deck size and affinities limits decisions a big, but not in a bad way. If they keep up the power curve and overall usability of cards this game can have a long life of fun deckbuilding and a deep meta, not to mention the room they have for lots of new mechanics and interaction thanks to the nature of the design and dice.
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Feb 1, 2017 20:32
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I'm running my first Destiny tournament tonight. It's just going to be a casual thing because my store doesn't have the tournament kits, so we're doing the same prize structure we use for Magic. Four rounds, and prizes based on record. 4-0 would get 9 packs of Magic, which is $27 store credit, 3-0-1 gets 6 packs, so $18 credit, and 3-1 gets 3 packs, or $9 credit. If anyone has a better way for a four-rounds-and-done structure, let me know! In Magic, usually people who are 3-0 going into the last round intentionally draw their last round so they're 3-0-1. I can't find anything in the tournament rules about intentional draws in Destiny, but I guess I'll try it this way for now. This has worked for us for Magic for about eight years, so it's worth a shot as a baseline. I have some things I want to give away to new players (playable commons, a couple of the lesser point characters I bought for $2, etc.). I wish we had actual packs of Destiny for prizes, but there are none on Long Island. It's in Selden, NY, which is in Suffolk County, Long Island, at 7 PM. If anyone's even near there, which I doubt, PM me for details.
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Feb 1, 2017 20:55
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Any one fancy some card trades? Here is a google doc with some of the stuff I am looking to trade, what I want, and some cards that I could go either way on: https://goo.gl/uIMwjv I also have a shitload of duplicate low level cards. If there is anyone here who could use some more cards because poo poo birds like me keep buying all the boxes, let me know and I'll send you a bunch of commons, BB8s and 1st order ties for just shipping costs. PM if interested.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:11
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BJPaskoff posted:I'm running my first Destiny tournament tonight. It's just going to be a casual thing because my store doesn't have the tournament kits, so we're doing the same prize structure we use for Magic. Four rounds, and prizes based on record. 4-0 would get 9 packs of Magic, which is $27 store credit, 3-0-1 gets 6 packs, so $18 credit, and 3-1 gets 3 packs, or $9 credit. If anyone has a better way for a four-rounds-and-done structure, let me know! In Magic, usually people who are 3-0 going into the last round intentionally draw their last round so they're 3-0-1. I can't find anything in the tournament rules about intentional draws in Destiny, but I guess I'll try it this way for now. This has worked for us for Magic for about eight years, so it's worth a shot as a baseline. I have some things I want to give away to new players (playable commons, a couple of the lesser point characters I bought for $2, etc.). I wish we had actual packs of Destiny for prizes, but there are none on Long Island. There are no draws in Destiny. Tiebreaker is health value of defeated characters + damage on surviving characters. Second tiebreaker is number of cards in hand + draw deck. Ultimate tiebreaker is whoever controls the battlefield. So, no need to worry about draws. I went to an event where they gave out the top prizes from the OP kit and two starter packs to the winner. The rest was distributed via random drawing, so even players who scrubbed out like me had a chance to win stuff. Since you don't have sealed product or an OP kit, I guess you could do the same with store credit?
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Feb 1, 2017 21:21
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I am an idiot for not running Riposte in the eHan/eRey deck. Seriously, loving stupid
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Feb 1, 2017 23:03
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guts and bolts posted:I am an idiot for not running Riposte in the eHan/eRey deck. Seriously, loving stupid I was just deciding what to cut for it!
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Feb 2, 2017 00:25
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thocan posted:Traded with ShowTime here, he gets my vote of approval. Shipped quickly, everything was packed really well, and was great for shipping advice. Would trade again, and would buy his poo poo on eBay if I needed anything. Got my trades today. Everything was super well packed and he shipped quick. The Post Office routed the package back to its departure point, so it took a little while longer for his part of it to arrive. Nothing to be done about a USPS screw up. A++ would trade again~
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Feb 2, 2017 01:17
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canyoneer posted:35 minutes for a game is already such a tight deadline if any player is taking a while to make decisions. Games will go to time unless you have explosive aggro. I gotta say, this hasn't been my experience of playing slower decks. The Padme control deck I was messing with for a while is really slow - it has to run out the opponent's deck to win in most cases, and my version had almost no acceleration. Even so I don't think I've played a game that took more than 35 minutes, even casual games where people were pretty new. It feels to me like what's going to cause Destiny games to stall out is the people who just need to take ages making any decision at all, since there are so many opportunities to take actions. And judging is the antidote to that - people who do that will time out 35 minute rounds with a variety of decks, not just the slow ones.
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Feb 2, 2017 03:26
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Anyone know where a Rey starter is in stock?
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Feb 2, 2017 03:27
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Speaking of throwing all your decent cards into a deck, I recently bought into the game, managed to open Vader, Thermal Det in my first few packs which I promptly traded for Luke and 2x Luke's Lightsaber. So of course I built an e-Rey and Luke deck. I really don't know what direction would be best to take it, but it's fun when Rey suddenly class changes to Jedi Sentinel and busts out two lightsabers to mow through people. The big thing I'd want is another Rey starter for one more Force Throw, but any other suggestions on how to not be bad would appreciated. http://swdestinydb.com/deck/view/158743
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Feb 2, 2017 03:55
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I really like holdout blasters with Rey. Cheap upgrade to trigger her ability, and gives you an extra 2 actions. Actually I like Holdout Blaster with everyone
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Feb 2, 2017 04:05
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canyoneer posted:Actually I like Holdout Blaster with everyone It would be cool if that was in the starters instead of say Jedi Robes. *stares at his closet full of a dozen identical jedi robes and shakes head*
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Feb 2, 2017 05:06
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Only five people at my Destiny tournament last night. Card gamers, man. Next week should be a little larger, because lots of people had reasons not to be there. We ended up just doing a round robin with one person getting the bye every round. At the end we had one person undefeated with eBala-Tik/Jango/Stormtrooper, and three people tied for second place, including me. Since I was getting store credit for running the event anyway, the other two wanted to do a playoff for second place. We started at 7:15 and technically played six rounds worth of time, and ended at 10:15. The decks were: eHan/eRey, played by myself eBala-Tik/Jango/Stormtrooper eKyle/eDooku Rey/Finn/Hired Gun (this guy was very new) eJango/Stormtrooper/Stormtrooper I played my version of eHan/eRey inspired by guts and bolts. I added two Ripostes, which didn't do much because I didn't mulligan aggressively enough for ambush stuff (or just plain forgot the opportunity to put a shield on Han). My two losses were both to the decks with Stormtroopers. I ignored the Stormtroopers, and at the end they picked up some weapons from redeploy and rolled 6 damage that I couldn't do anything about. Both times I was about to win next turn, pretty tense! I think I'm taking Hyperspace Jump out of eHan/eRey. I never had the resources for it and I think Dodge does just as well there. Infamous seemed a little too slow, but I'm probably not playing it correctly. I definitely need more practice with the deck.
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Feb 2, 2017 17:02
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ShowTime posted:Got my trades today. Everything was super well packed and he shipped quick. The Post Office routed the package back to its departure point, so it took a little while longer for his part of it to arrive. Nothing to be done about a USPS screw up. A++ would trade again~ Cool, I saw that on the tracking and got a little worried that something got damaged. Glad it made it in one piece!
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Feb 2, 2017 17:13
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guts and bolts posted:I am an idiot for not running Riposte in the eHan/eRey deck. Seriously, loving stupid What is your canonical version of this deck, now? I'm mainly wondering what you took out for Riposte and is it dumb to have 2 OwtF in the deck?
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Feb 2, 2017 17:35
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BJPaskoff posted:After-action report Sounds like a few tough breaks, but a good time. Finster Dexter posted:What is your canonical version of this deck, now? I'm mainly wondering what you took out for Riposte and is it dumb to have 2 OwtF in the deck? I've been playing it a lot lately and I've made some changes, but a lot of those changes seem either insanely obvious (maybe add Riposte to the best shield-generating deck in the game???) or are relatively minor (going from 2x Hyperspace Jump to 1x). Shoot First was proving too situational so I scrapped it wholesale for Dodge. I'm seriously considering scrapping Scramble, but for now I've left it in the deck; I might replace it with Defensive Stance, but we'll see. I don't want to get rid of what anemic dice change/control options I have, and Scramble has its uses, too. Overall I'd say the deck performs pretty consistently well, but there will always be an element of that "never tell me the odds" attitude. Shell Han Solo, Scoundrel (18) Rey, Force Prodigy (12) Starship Graveyard, Jakku (I'm not really sure there's much in the way of wiggle room for this shell. Starship Graveyard is a complete gamechanger for you, and often either forgettable or only mildly effective on most other decks (aka "them"). You will basically never change this until SoR or something else new could supplant it.) Upgrades (12) DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistol x2 Force Throw x1 Holdout Blaster x2 Hunker Down x1 Jetpack x2 One With The Force x1 Rey's Staff x2 Second Chance x1 (Some other obvious candidates that I'll likely put in here, though not sure what to cut: Jedi Robes and Comlink. Comlink's ability to scramble a rollout is great, and the Focus faces are obviously nice. Jedi Robes is a good turn-1 play on Rey for also-obvious reasons. I'm just worried about slowing the deck down too much. Hunker Down, OwtF, and Second Chance are amazingly effective one-ofs, and you can get away with one-ofs very easily if you get your battlefield or Jump to it.) Supports (3) Awakening x1 Infamous x2 (I could conceivably drop the other Awakening entirely, but it's proven helpful to stick damage through "out of nowhere" off of nominally bad Rey or Jetpack results. I'm loathe to go to zero. Infamous enables an incredibly effective combo and fuels crazy shield gain on Han for a small tempo hit, so I still basically love it.) Events (15) Disarm x1 Dodge x1 Draw Attention x2 Heroism x2 Hyperspace Jump x1 Riposte x2 Scavenge x2 Scramble x2 Unpredictable x2 (Riposte makes way too much sense not to include, and a one-of Hyperspace Jump is almost not negotiable in my mind because of how much of a boon that battlefield is. Losing it can be pretty harsh, especially if you're up against something like eJabba/Vader, but it isn't necessarily a death sentence because of Scavenge. Two felt like too much, but I like the one. Dodge is a tech card. Shoot First wasn't carrying its weight.) EDIT: For those interested, this deck - as presently constructed - would cost you about $215 if you bought each card individually from Miniature Market. You could buy a single box of Destiny at retail cost, sell your legendaries (unless you need them), and probably put the entire deck together with some room to spare. For contrast, I was pricing out my eJabba/Vader concept in singles and I was nearing $400 before I stopped. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 19:18
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Played the eHan/eRey deck tonight and had fun with it. Definitely gonna cut some stuff for Riposte though. I often found myself with more shields then I could use. Riposte would have definitely been enough damage to kill off a character multiple times. It has has the added benefit of making useless items useful when playing the mill deck, which two people in my meta run. I also might add a Hyperspace as a means to remove battlefields certain decks really run off of. It also has the added benefit of completely throwing the opponent off tempo. It does cost 3 resources though. This deck seems to run really tight on resources. I didn't really like Rey's Staff either, but I can see why its in there.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:19
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I really want to maximize Poe with the current card pool. First blush was wanting to run Poe/eFinn for access to AT-STs and TIEs, but in practice Finn's HP proved too much of a liability, so I'm replacing him with 2x Hired Guns instead. Has anyone explored this idea much? Here's the list I currently have put together: BATTLEFIELD ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Starship Graveyard, Jakku UPGRADE ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ 1x Comlink 1x Diplomatic Immunity 2x DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistol 2x Promotion 2x Datapad 2x Cunning 2x Jetpack 2x Hunker Down SUPPORT ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ 1x Launch Bay 1x Black One 1x Millennium Falcon 1x Play the Odds EVENT ŻŻŻŻŻ 1x Scavenge 1x Scramble 2x Field Medic 2x It's a Trap! 2x Draw Attention 2x All In 2x Electroshock Arguably I might want to have either a second Launch Bay, Falcon, or Black One in there, but with 15 total dice-based cards currently Poe has a lot of targets to use his Special on, even if he can't then pay for most of them. The trick is getting his Special to trigger as often as possible, which is where Cunning comes in with two Yellow targets to keep them in play as much as possible. It's a Trap! helps with that as well, and then the Resource faces on the Hired Guns in conjunction with the Datapads theoretically can help fund putting the expensive stuff into play. I have no concept of how well this could actually perform, especially against the top decks of the meta right now since I literally don't know anyone where I am that has enough product to actually build any of those decks. Best thing I'm likely to play it against is eQui-gon/eRey, also built out of my own collection. Anyone try anything like this? Any first hand experience? Thoughts on the list? e: Oh, and no Holdout Blasters or Detonators because I don't have any still. >_< Merauder fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 06:25
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So there is kinda two ways to build Poe/Gun/Gun One is Hyperloop, where your deck looks a little like: Poe Hired Gun Hired Gun Emperor's Throne Room Upgrades: 10 2x Cunning 2x Datapad 2x Hunker Down 2x Second Chance 2 x Thermal Detonator (In your case you can use the DL-44 instead) Supports: 6 2x Millennium Falcon 2x Launch Bay 2x Play the Odds Event: 14 2x Disarm 1x Dodge 1x Dug In 2x Field Medic 2x Hyperspace Jump 2x Logistics 2x Scavenge 2x Strategic Planning You basically play for big cash to drop the major supports, mulligan for Falcon, Cunning, Economy and Hyperspace Jump. Play the Falcon early (If you have three resources and the Emperor's Throne Room, you can claim the battlefield to resolve Poes special, get 2 resources from the Falcon and play it that way), roll the Falcon first every turn and if your opponent gets a roll you can't handle, Hyperspace Jump away with the Falcons special by claiming the Emperor's Throne Room. If they remove the Falcons dice you can also use a Cunning dice for the same result. Currently I'm trying to find space for Electroshock, Flank and Unpredictable so I don't need to Hyperspace Jump from minor rolls. Second is more guns guns guns.
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Feb 3, 2017 10:43
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HidaO-Win posted:So there is kinda two ways to build Poe/Gun/Gun I'm familiar with the Hyperloop decks, and they don't interest me at all. I'm always amused at a crazy combo deck like that, but it's rarely something I actually would enjoy playing against someone. More so, as I mentioned, I wanted to try to capitalize on Poe's Special triggers, getting free dice faces of your choice and essentially working triple duty (letting you effectively play a vehicle card, activate it, and resolve it all in one action; AND it enters play ready to actually be activated that round). I'm not convinced there's enough cards in the pool to really make it work well, but I think given what we have to work with the list I put up above could be on the right track. More looking for input on that particular approach than playing "guns guns guns", to which I would likely run Poe/Gun/Padawan if I just wanted to jam out as many different Upgrades as possible.
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Feb 3, 2017 11:17
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Merauder posted:I'm familiar with the Hyperloop decks, and they don't interest me at all. I'm always amused at a crazy combo deck like that, but it's rarely something I actually would enjoy playing against someone. More so, as I mentioned, I wanted to try to capitalize on Poe's Special triggers, getting free dice faces of your choice and essentially working triple duty (letting you effectively play a vehicle card, activate it, and resolve it all in one action; AND it enters play ready to actually be activated that round). So the Hyperloop thing isn't the focus of the deck, its just a trick in the arsenal, the major advantage of it is you can end a turn that gets disadvantagous immediately. Now on the more standard Poe deck. The problem is Poe doesn't have an ideal 12 point yellow character to partner with his Elite version. We'd like the elite version as its a lot harder to remove both his dice. So we end up looking at partners for his 14 point version and the best choice there is the Hired Gun So Poe Hired Gun Hired Gun For a battlefield and if you are really relying on triggering Poe we're back to Emperor's Throne room. At which point we're mostly playing Hyperloop again, but we'll avoid using that. You want Datapad and Cunning to make you better at triggering Poe's special, but at that point you want a big impact discard, which is either the Falcon, Launch Bay or Thermal Detonator. The IQ sniper rifle is ok for that and the DL-44 is good with 3 damage, Black One is borderline but you can use it if you like. Assuming you have no hold out blasters or thermal detonators. Poe Hired Gun Hired Gun Emperor's Throne Room Upgrades: 13 2x Cunning 2x Datapad 1x Second Chance 2x DL-44 Heavy Blaster 2x IQA-11 Blaster Rifle 2x DH17 Blaster Pistol 2x Hunker Down Supports: 5 2x Millennium Falcon 2x Launch Bay 1x Black One Event: 12 1x Dodge 2x Electroshock 2x Flank 2x Logistics 1x It's a Trap 2x Scavenge 2x Unpredictable I'm not as solid on this list, I think it pulls in too many directions at once and you are probably better cutting down on the guns or the supports.
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Feb 3, 2017 13:53
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HidaO-Win posted:The problem is Poe doesn't have an ideal 12 point yellow character to partner with his Elite version. We'd like the elite version as its a lot harder to remove both his dice. So we end up looking at partners for his 14 point version and the best choice there is the Hired Gun Right, this is definitely the biggest issue with trying to run him with that goal right now. You want as many of his dice as possible and there's just not an ideal way to do it. Elite Finn fits right in, but frankly the two 9 HP characters are likely to run better to keep you in the game long enough to capitalize on all the Upgrade infrastructure you need to get Poe to be consistently getting those free virtual dice. I'm hoping as the card pool opens up there are some really good 12pt Elite options, or perhaps better yet, other cheaper non-uniques. Thanks for the list suggestions.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:55
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Merauder posted:Right, this is definitely the biggest issue with trying to run him with that goal right now. You want as many of his dice as possible and there's just not an ideal way to do it. Elite Finn fits right in, but frankly the two 9 HP characters are likely to run better to keep you in the game long enough to capitalize on all the Upgrade infrastructure you need to get Poe to be consistently getting those free virtual dice. I'd bet 10 euro that Finn was 12 points until later in playtest, when issues cropped up in the expansion card pool so they changed him out. His dice is nearly identical to Jango and Jango is currently significantly stronger.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:12
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Jyn is 15 points and has great damage sides. She might be a good buddy for Poe
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Feb 3, 2017 19:12
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canyoneer posted:Jyn is 15 points and has great damage sides. She might be a good buddy for Poe 2 dice team? That's too weak.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:20
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canyoneer posted:Jyn is 15 points and has great damage sides. She might be a good buddy for Poe Ideally we'd be looking for a 12pt or less Elite character though, allowing you to run Elite Poe at 18. snuff posted:2 dice team? That's too weak. Yeah. Only way 2 dice might work is Elite Palpatine once SoR releases.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:21
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I don't even care if Elite Palp is viable, I will always be running a deck with him. I will of course include "Feel Your Anger" since I already do a hammy Palp impression every time I play it.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:00
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