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MisterBibs posted:I liked BSG's religious stuff because it was a consistent through-line throughout the series, was never explained away, and still were surprised and annoyed that the series ended with "Yeah, God did it. That dude mentioned all the time". I will freely admit that at least half my annoyance with the religious stuff in BSG was just due to the fact that I'd been conditioned by Star Trek to expect it all to get explained away by science at the end.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:07
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twistedmentat posted:Kai Winn's leadership of Bajor is basically Trump; flipping her poo poo over minor things, threatening everyone, complaining about people not respecting her when all she does is poo poo on everyone. Is bernie going to confront him at the fire caves??
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Feb 3, 2017 03:09
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Orv posted:I played a really not okay amount of Armada, the Star Trek RTS game, in which the Akira was a baller workhorse unit, so I like that thing a lot. also I remembered that the reason Locutus is there is somehow by capturing Dominion cloning technology the Borg were able to make a new Locutus. It also never made sense to me how Toral goes from being like 13 or so years old in TNG to like 40 there.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:21
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and completely insane.
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I will freely admit that at least half my annoyance with the religious stuff in BSG was just due to the fact that I'd been conditioned by Star Trek to expect it all to get explained away by science at the end. I love how to this day you'll find people posting how they just can't believe it was God and how it was a complete blindside. Like, were you paying attention? These were also the people adamant that Head Six was a Cylon implant and therefore Head Baltar was a feedback loop or some dumb poo poo when she regenerated. Everything but literal angels from God like they said the whole time Like reading about all the mental back flips people did to make geocentrism work once we could chart planet movement.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:31
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FlamingLiberal posted:It was nice when they actually bothered making Star Trek games. Armada is still one of the best. Klingons mature pretty fast, it would seem. I mean, Alexander looked like this when he was eight, and he's not even a full-blooded Klingon. 
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Feb 3, 2017 03:33
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Yeah, they were consistent on Klingons growing up super fast.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:40
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Feb 3, 2017 03:41
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So, in Conspiracy, did Picard and Riker kill everyone who was possessed by the little guys? I mean, the admirals were all phasered, but only Remmick got annihilated.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:46
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Spoeank posted:I love how to this day you'll find people posting how they just can't believe it was God and how it was a complete blindside. Like, were you paying attention? Narratively, I thought the ambiguity in the first season or so was a lot more interesting than the certainty that developed later on. It went from a humans struggling with faith to the same big mythic stuff we've seen a million times before.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:15
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sunday at work posted:
They have a plan: God's plan.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:15
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Baronjutter posted:Is bernie going to confront him at the fire caves?? I got $5 towards a fund to make this gif happen.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:37
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No no, Trump is Dukat, the unambiguous evil people should be allied against. Kai Winn is Clinton.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:41
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Dukat was right.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:45
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The only thing Dukat did wrong was think he could boss some demons around. Dictator? Good work. Make Cardassia Great Again? Great, until the Federation ruined it by winning. Space Pirate? Baller as gently caress. Cult leader? Look at him spin that Dukat-baby! Space Demon Lord? Not so great.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:40
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, they were consistent on Klingons growing up super fast. And then apparently stop because I just watched Sword of Kahless last night and the spry 50-something-looking Klingon dude was the same commander from the Organian incident with Kirk from 100 years before? Even TNG Spock looks older and frailer than this guy. Although I guess Kor could have been 9 years old at Organia. Speaking of Kira disobeying orders all the time: how the hell was O'Brien not cashiered after he disobeyed Bashir's direct orders when they were captured by the free Jem'Hadar dude who wanted to find out why he wasn't addicted to ketracel white. Not only did O'Brien disobey orders but he (a) was completely wrong (luckily for them, because the Jem'Hadar who spared them anyway even after they broke their word to him, instead of killing them like O'Brien insisted he would because "Jem'Hadar bad"), (b) denied the Federation a potentially huge strategic advantage by dooming the rebellious Jem'Hadar to all die from withdrawal and preventing the Federation from learning how to free Jem'Hadar from their addiction, and (c) based all of this on mouthbreathing racism and pro-slavery arguments. How do you ever trust him on a mission after that, you never know when he's going to sabotage the mission, jeopardize everyone's lives, and hurt the strategic position of the Federation because his dumbshit racism tells him not to listen to anyone else. E: Also how many times are we going to get a Very Special "O'Brien learns his racism is dumb and wrong and renounces it until next week when he does the same thing again" episode. Either have the character learn or don't. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 05:41
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To be fair, the very first episode with O'Brian's space racism towards the Cardassians was pretty good and he saved the day.
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Feb 3, 2017 06:01
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Feb 3, 2017 07:53
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Which makes it even more frustrating that he learned precisely dick from the experience and does the opposite a few years later. "Has 1-in-4 chance of being overwhelmed by his prejudice and torpedoing the mission, possibly getting you killed", uh yeah I don't think I want this guy on my team.
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Feb 3, 2017 07:54
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VitalSigns posted:"Has 1-in-4 chance of being overwhelmed by his prejudice and torpedoing the mission, possibly getting you killed", uh yeah I don't think I want this guy on my team. Hey, you can't buy a sweet set of engineering skills like O'Brian has without taking a few Flaws for the points, and Virulent Racism (Jem'Hadar) seemed like a safe pick before the campaign started and they were exclusively on the other side of the galaxy. I bet the DM introduced the wormhole just to shut down that kind of munchkining.
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Feb 3, 2017 08:10
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I give O'Brien a lot of leeway for his Cardassian poo poo, because it's one of the few places Trek explores the fact that Starfleet, for all its mewling about being explorers, is very much a military organization. Humans trying really hard to kill other humans in a prolonged war breeds some pretty ugly resentment, so when you expand that theatre to an entire other species with truly alien values; it doesn't make it okay but it's one of the more real, not perfectly utopian character traits they explore in the shows, so I'm fine with it. Except then it turns out it's not a war thing, which you can empathize with to some extent, no no, Miles O'Brien, for all his good traits and fantastic episodes, is an all purpose racist. Oops, sorry Miles, I forgot my empathy with Ro "I said the word diaspora once now that's my excuse for an entire season of class A bitchery" Laren.
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Feb 3, 2017 08:26
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Rewatching 1st season TNG's mewling about being explorers is so much funnier after they retcon the Cardassian-Federation War happening at the same time Picard is getting all huffy about humanity moving beyond territorial conquest and wars over resources. Dude your helmsman just got assigned to you from the front. You've got partisans who would rather see their children massacred in an endless guerilla war rather than move to any number of uninhabited identical rocks a few days away. Every single person in the Maquis is dumber than that planet of radiation-adapted idiots who took forever to be convinced that their pitchforks and axes weren't going to be much help against an alien armada that's totally cool with glassing their shithole village from orbit, is my point.
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Feb 3, 2017 08:37
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No argument.
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Feb 3, 2017 08:42
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I actually bet a lot of religious stuff is still around even on Earth, it's just more explicitly cultural except where it's based on actual historical figures like the Buddha and Satan. (Satan lives and is real, keep in mind.) My reason for this bet is that it's partly subsidized cultural heritage, and partly because what the gently caress else are you going to do? Why not go to church if you've a mind?
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Feb 3, 2017 09:38
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SimonCat posted:So, in Conspiracy, did Picard and Riker kill everyone who was possessed by the little guys? Nope! The ending pretty clearly suggests that the brain bugs are still out there. They're just never brought up again. I like to think that all of Star Fleet eventually got assimilated and they're all just acting human for each other's benefit on the off chance that there are still some normal humans left. VitalSigns posted:And then apparently stop because I just watched Sword of Kahless last night and the spry 50-something-looking Klingon dude was the same commander from the Organian incident with Kirk from 100 years before? Even TNG Spock looks older and frailer than this guy. Maybe they're like certain fish or reptiles that mature quickly and then just sort of keep growing. Humans have inordinately long childhoods compared to most of the animal kingdom, so it's not surprising that some aliens would grow up much faster. Spending ~20% of our life span developing before we can really take care of ourselves works OK for us because we're apex predators who live in large groups, but animals with lots of predators need to be able to defend themselves at a much younger age and if those animals are predators themselves, they likely need to be able to hunt as well. Klingons are from a violent world where they apparently weren't apex predators (or, at least, weren't until fairly recently) and had to grow up fast to survive. As for why they live so long, if most of them die hunting/in battle at a fairly young age, then there's less evolutionary pressure for them to have an "expiration date" (it's often theorized that one reason "old age" exists is because it prevents parents from competing with their own descendants) and having the surviving old timers be exceptionally long lived might be the only way to maintain a stable adult population at all.
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Feb 3, 2017 10:01
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A cockatoo will be fully grown in about 5 years and then may live to about 70. Also Klingons are loving aliens.
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Feb 3, 2017 11:56
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Let's see what happens if I google "Klingon evolution". http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/klingon_evolution.htm Seems about right.
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Feb 3, 2017 11:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:It was nice when they actually bothered making Star Trek games. Armada is still one of the best. "Picard of Enterprise, I am Locutus of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated."  "No."
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Feb 3, 2017 15:20
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Duckbag posted:Nope! The ending pretty clearly suggests that the brain bugs are still out there. They're just never brought up again. I like to think that all of Star Fleet eventually got assimilated and they're all just acting human for each other's benefit on the off chance that there are still some normal humans left. I meant the admirals that got phasered and had the bugs crawl out of their mouths. I guess they died, Dr Crusher said the phasers needed to be on kill.
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Feb 3, 2017 16:08
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Duckbag posted:Nope! The ending pretty clearly suggests that the brain bugs are still out there. They're just never brought up again. They were replaced by the Borg.
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Feb 3, 2017 16:25
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Didn't one of the books state that they were the Trill symbionts' evil cousins?
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Feb 3, 2017 16:54
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CommaToes posted:Didn't one of the books state that they were the Trill symbionts' evil cousins? There was a whole series about that actually
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Feb 3, 2017 17:09
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I will freely admit that at least half my annoyance with the religious stuff in BSG was just due to the fact that I'd been conditioned by Star Trek to expect it all to get explained away by science at the end. I did the same with  I stupidly thought that it was all going to make sense by the end, but nope, everything weird is either an another universe or just super hosed-up.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:25
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SimonCat posted:I meant the admirals that got phasered and had the bugs crawl out of their mouths. I guess they died, Dr Crusher said the phasers needed to be on kill. There's some throw away line about them being expected to make a full recovery or what ever. Not, not the headless guy though.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:43
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CharlieWhiskey posted:I did the same with made enough sense, since the point was about the characters and really the ride rather than the destination.If they'd gone too far explaining it, it would have just been midichlorians and planet Zeist all over again. Some mysteries are way better left as mysteries.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:43
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Phimosissy posted:
This is only the case because there was no destination in mind, though. As with BSG, they piled up a whole bunch of mysteries because mysteries are cool and make people watch the show, but ultimately had no idea how to resolve most of them so copped out. It's just lazy plotting, focusing on what gets ratings in the moment rather than what you can actually develop dramatically in the long run. The fact that lovely non-explanations like midichlorians and Zeist exist doesn't mean that other lovely non-explanations like "God did it, lol" or "it was purgatory all along" are actually good.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:53
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You'd have a point if "God did it lol" hadn't been a central theme of the entire show.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:56
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skasion posted:"it was purgatory all along" Only people who didn't actually watch and like to feel superior about it or did watch it but are really dumb or bad at consuming media think this
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Feb 3, 2017 17:58
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Phimosissy posted:Only people who didn't actually watch Then you explain it smarty.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:05
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Phimosissy posted:Only people who didn't actually watch Lost is a loving mess and it's absolutely clear they didn't have the ending in mind until they actually started making the final season. They "answered" the numbers mystery in a loving ARG and never mentioned it on the show, loving lol.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:10
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Big Mean Jerk posted:You'd have a point if "God did it lol" hadn't been a central theme of the entire show. My problem with it was that if you bothered following along to it's logical conclusion than everybody in the BSGverse was being strung along for hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of years by an inscrutable force that watches entire civilizations live and burn over and over in order to appease it's own sense of curiosity This is called "love" so many times that the word lost all meaning, no one in the show acknowledges this and in the end they all calmly walk away from the idea of civilization without a passing thought given to the ultimate existential horror that is their existence BSG was a good show but it's writers definitely thought they had something deeper and meaningful to say about the human condition and so they disappeared up their own rear end, as for Lost well anybody who remembers how The X-Files's big arc turned out could tell that Lost was just stringing people along the whole drat time even as it was airing
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Feb 3, 2017 18:15
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