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Dark souls litteraly has mimic chests that instakill and that's lauded as being the best at game design. Things that punish the player for not paying attention aren't valueless.
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Feb 6, 2017 10:56
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That's a rather apples-to-oranges comparison, especially considering Dark Souls lets you save progress and (ironically enough) has less severe penalties for death.
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Feb 6, 2017 11:22
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Mr Phillby posted:Dark souls litteraly has mimic chests that instakill and that's lauded as being the best at game design. Things that punish the player for not paying attention aren't valueless. I want to frame this post and put it on my wall so that I may look at it whenever I need a laugh 
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Feb 6, 2017 11:35
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Health as a resource mechanics are fine. The fact that they added a dumb challenge character who can't take damage doesn't change that (also can't The Lost open those chests for free anyway?).
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Feb 6, 2017 11:45
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Actually dark souls is far more punishing as you have to tediously work your way back to where you died to recover your progress. BOI is designed to be almost infinitely replayable it doesn't have that problem at all.Your Computer posted:I want to frame this post and put it on my wall so that I may look at it whenever I need a laugh
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Feb 6, 2017 15:47
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Mr Phillby posted:Actually dark souls is far more punishing as you have to tediously work your way back to where you died to recover your progress. BOI is designed to be almost infinitely replayable it doesn't have that problem at all. 
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Feb 6, 2017 16:25
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Honestly if they just made mimic chests into how they behave in dark souls where its kind of hard to tell if ones a mimic but attacking it causes it to act like an enemy until you kill it and then you just get the contents of the chest thatd be a huge improvement over the current system.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:36
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You know what sucked? The chalice dungeons in Bloodborne. You know what else would've sucked? If the chalice dungeons in Bloodborne had mimics that just damaged you instead of fighting and didn't drop anything for your troubles. ...Wait poo poo now I can't stop imagining a fully-fledged Souls roguelike that uses Binding of Isaac-style mechanics, someone stop me.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:41
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for that to work there's have to be some downside to just attacking every chest, like shoot a non-trap chest too much and it breaks and you don't get the contents.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:41
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Mr Phillby posted:for that to work there's have to be some downside to just attacking every chest, like shoot a non-trap chest too much and it breaks and you don't get the contents. 
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Feb 6, 2017 17:00
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Mr Phillby posted:for that to work there's have to be some downside to just attacking every chest, like shoot a non-trap chest too much and it breaks and you don't get the contents. Kinda doesn't work in BoI because a lot of times you get chests and enemies in the same screen and it's hard to always aim your shots true. I mean, you could do that, it would just be a pain...so I guess expect Ed to add that to the game in a couple of weeks?
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Feb 6, 2017 17:02
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Mr Phillby posted:Dark souls litteraly has mimic chests that instakill and that's lauded as being the best at game design. Things that punish the player for not paying attention aren't valueless. Dark souls is a slow-paced game about being careful and observing your environment, where a subtly different mimic makes sense. BoI is much more fast-paced by comparison; you get rewarded for beating mom quickly, for example. A subtle mimic trap that requires taking things slower/more methodical is completely at odds with everything else. There isn't just a nebulous "good design" that means you can slap a mechanic in any game and it'll work great; it depends on what's appropriate for how the game plays.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:11
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I was going to say, Gungeon mimic chests are the only mimic chest mechanic that I consider a net positive.
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Feb 6, 2017 18:54
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If the chests turned into a monster that didn't immediately damage you that would be neat.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:13
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Pigbuster posted:Dark souls is a slow-paced game about being careful and observing your environment, where a subtly different mimic makes sense. BoI is much more fast-paced by comparison; you get rewarded for beating mom quickly, for example. A subtle mimic trap that requires taking things slower/more methodical is completely at odds with everything else. There isn't just a nebulous "good design" that means you can slap a mechanic in any game and it'll work great; it depends on what's appropriate for how the game plays. By design BOI is full of things that are annoying and vexing, like when you open a chest a gigantic homing bomb may spawn, or a smaller locked chest may pop out. The fun is in reacting to and even turning these these little gently caress yous to your advantage. The trap chest feels to me like an alternate version of the spike chest, like the big troll bomb to the regular troll bomb. It fits perfectly well into the game's design and though it may trip you up a few times but you'll very quickly be able to spot them. you don't need approach regular chests carefully or slow down your playstyle because of them, you just need to know they exist and weigh up whether the health cost is worth the potential reward when you encounter them. Basically yeah nobody likes them but they're fine and should exist because they add to the game even in a small way.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:38
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Mr Phillby posted:Like an instakill mimic chest is an awful. awful thing to put into a game and nobody in their right mind thinks 'oh great, I got eaten to death with no real warning' The mimics in Dark Souls aren't instakill and there's plenty of warning though 
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Feb 6, 2017 19:52
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Mimics in souls games are: A different color. Breath if you stare at them. The chain on side of it is in a completely different position than normal chests. You have plenty of warning.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_mMABJxdps Yeah sure you can tell if you know what to look for and maybe if you've got the health and defense you can survive the bite attack but for most players this is how they're introduced to the chest mimic. It will kill every new player by design. I'm not even saying that's a bad design, it's just one that serves the tone of the game more than the enjoyment of the one playing. You will not enjoy this encounter is all I am saying.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:05
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Dark Souls mimics embody the type of game design that the series is famous for; if you rush in head first then you're gonna get chomped. If you take a second and approach carefully you will be fine. Caution and awareness are by far the most precious tools you can bring to the game, and the game will award you for it. This makes the game completely, completely different from BoI and comparing the two makes literally no sense. Also I never got eaten by a single mimic in any Dark Souls game and I played them all blind
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Feb 6, 2017 21:22
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Also if you play online the mimic has like a thousand signs around it.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:24
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Your Computer posted:I want to frame this post and put it on my wall so that I may look at it whenever I need a laugh I'm not sure if you were aware, but there is a piece of technology called a printer that will allow you to do just that! 
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Feb 6, 2017 22:27
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Got my first 1% chance direct teleport to The Void after beating Mom's Foot today. I was definitely underpowered even though I had 22 items.
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Feb 6, 2017 22:45
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Today's daily seems relatively easy. I managed to reroll a couple item rooms into Epic Fetus and Pyromaniac, so I was able to just bomb myself for health when I took too much damage.
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Feb 6, 2017 23:12
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Mr Phillby posted:Actually dark souls is far more punishing as you have to tediously work your way back to where you died to recover your progress. What the gently caress is this argument, you literally have to start Isaac over from the beginning when you die
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Feb 6, 2017 23:26
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Can I just say how much I loving hate that stupid insta-teleport to the void? I had a really fun relaxing casual run and was about to go full OP after mom and got taken directly to the void, do not get last guppy piece and gently caress off
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Feb 7, 2017 01:03
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Alteisen posted:Mimics in souls games are: also the very first one is placed in an awkward position that chests aren't normally ever placed in and seeing it immediately arouses suspicion.
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Feb 7, 2017 01:07
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I'm glad you're all so cool and good at games and never once died to a cheap rear end mimic chest. That make them a cool and good thing for the player to encounter. This doesn't make them inherently bad! Things that trick or punish the player for not paying attention can exist in a game without making it automatically worse. That is the one point I'm trying to make here. Olive Garden tonight! posted:What the gently caress is this argument, you literally have to start Isaac over from the beginning when you die Dark Souls has you trek back to your death point, carefully because if you die before you get back you lose all your unspent souls. I cannot believe 'Dark Souls punishes death harshly' is generating such ire. It is miserable. It is miserable on purpose and thats a big part of why people enjoy the game.
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Feb 7, 2017 01:12
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I feel like this is more of a personal tirade against Dark Souls than having anything to do with The Binding of Isaac 
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Feb 7, 2017 01:15
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Your Computer posted:I feel like this is more of a personal tirade against Dark Souls than having anything to do with The Binding of Isaac same
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Feb 7, 2017 01:48
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Who here is dumb enough to get this on the Switch? Not me. I considered it but there is nothing more to gain after getting 100% a couple times.
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Feb 7, 2017 02:05
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Inzombiac posted:Who here is dumb enough to get this on the Switch? Maybe we'll be able to get Antibirth on the Switch  But yeah, I've 100%'ed this game too many times already and the console ports so far have been beyond atrocious. The 3DS version still has bugs that not only crash the game but the 3DS system itself. It's literally the only game I've seen capable of doing that, that's how bad the port is. Even if the Switch port runs more smoothly the devs have clearly shown how much they care about console ports, so even if I really want portable BoI to be a thing I just don't see the Switch version being any better.
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Feb 7, 2017 02:10
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flyboi posted:Can I just say how much I loving hate that stupid insta-teleport to the void? I had a really fun relaxing casual run and was about to go full OP after mom and got taken directly to the void, do not get last guppy piece and gently caress off I've had success with alt+F4ing during the teleport/loading. It puts you back in Mom's room, though you'll lose out on any angel/devil rooms.
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Feb 7, 2017 02:18
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i patched
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Feb 7, 2017 02:24
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Got 5 Nights at Mom's with the final run being the absolute worst Lazarus run I ever had, but found a joker card which had a megablast for 1 heart. All I need now is The Marathon, then Dedication. This games puts a toll on me. 
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Feb 7, 2017 03:23
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There was an update. No official notes as of yet, but the most notable change seems to be that Big Horn's damage scaling was removed.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:05
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According to the wiki: -Big Horn no longer has damage scaling (armor). If you stun him with a bomb, he still takes 20% more damage. -Fixed the bug with The Ludovico Technique and Explosivo synergy where it wouldn't properly explode on enemies. -Satanic Bible now correctly contributes towards the Bookworm transformation. -The Dead Eye multiplier now properly increments on poop and TNT barrels. -Fixed the bug where if you saved and quit with the Duct Tape trinket, orbitals would not return to their proper position. -Fixed the bug where if you save, quit, and continue in the middle of clearing a Challenge Room, the game would crash and/or the save file would get corrupted. -Fixed the bug where on the Delirium fight, Gate would always spawns outside of the room. Glad I didn't run into that one 
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Feb 7, 2017 05:08
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After the update today is anyone else's Isaac running like garbage?
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Feb 7, 2017 05:20
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So uh yeah... I really broke the game tonight on a rerun   I had almost every good item in the game by the end of it. I think god head was the only thing I was really missing.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:31
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Finally got a Greedier Mode victory. Admittedly it was as Lilith, the character that already breaks Greed Mode. Battery Baby dropping batteries + triple shot ipecac + Daddy Long Legs + Auto-turret baby + a cube of meat gets ridiculous. Still barely finished it, but that was as much due to me exploding myself as anything else. Also, glad to hear that Big Hole doesn't have loving armor anymore. That was the one thing I really hated about him.
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Feb 7, 2017 05:35
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Greedier Mode really isn't that bad once you get a feel for it. I've already cleared it on every character. You just have to buy the really meaningful items like stat-ups, and Greedier himself has poor long-range capabilities so you just go around the room clockwise every time he jumps.
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Feb 7, 2017 06:26
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