Europa Universalis IV: Buying all the DLC is just Common Sense

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Europa Universalis IV: Buying all the DLC is just Common Sense

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QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Elias_Maluco posted:

Yeah, I do.

But playing yesterday Gulf of Aden finally showed in protect trade list. I dont know why or how or what changed, but probably was a trade range issue after all. I wish there was a trade range map mode, its quite obscure

Speaking about trade: my home node is Genoa, but I also have like 87% in Venice, because I control most of its provinces. Both are "end" nodes, so I cant steer from Venice to Genoa. So what happens with my trade in Venice? Does it ends there? Does it goes to Genoa somehow?

It says on the trade node window that it gives me 10 g income, but I dont understand how it works. I tried putting a merchant there to collect, but that actually lowered my income

It ends there. You should send a merchant to collect in Venice since your home node is already in Genoa (assuming you have a merchant to spare and/or that the trade value in Venice is worth collecting after you eat a 50% trade power penalty)

# ? Feb 7, 2017 12:24

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# ? May 12, 2024 16:11

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

QuarkJets posted:

It ends there. You should send a merchant to collect in Venice since your home node is already in Genoa (assuming you have a merchant to spare and/or that the trade value in Venice is worth collecting after you eat a 50% trade power penalty)

I do have. I have 12 merchants, some are steering in mostly useless places cause I dont have anything better for them to do

But as I said, Ive tried that before, and for some reason my trade income drops after I put a merchant collecting in Venice

# ? Feb 7, 2017 13:15

Mysticblade: Oct 22, 2012

New dev diary up.

Basically, we can give a state bonuses in exchange for tripling the maintenance cost of that state. Some examples are:

code:

Enforce Religious Unity : 1% Missionary Strength
Protect Trade : +50% Provincial Trade Power
Promote Military Recruitment: +25% Manpower
Encourage Development: -10% Development Cost
Advancement Effort: +33% Institution Spread
Centralization Effort: -0.03 Monthly Autonomy

Also meant to be some UI clean up. Since this just requires money, it seems like a decent enough addition.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 13:34

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Elias_Maluco posted:

I do have. I have 12 merchants, some are steering in mostly useless places cause I dont have anything better for them to do

But as I said, Ive tried that before, and for some reason my trade income drops after I put a merchant collecting in Venice

Essentially if you're only collecting in your main trade port, you get +10% trade power in that node for every merchant you have steering trade elsewhere in the world. If you put a merchant collecting in Venice, you lose those bonuses in your home node, so if there's still a bunch of competition the losses in your home node might outweigh what you're collecting from Venice.

Honestly it's probably not worth collecting in two different end nodes for you, you probably have enough control over stuff upstream that you can steer it all to your desired end node and collect it all there more efficiently.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 13:40

Chin Strap: Nov 24, 2002; I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap; Pillbug

Jabor posted:

Essentially if you're only collecting in your main trade port, you get +10% trade power in that node for every merchant you have steering trade elsewhere in the world. If you put a merchant collecting in Venice, you lose those bonuses in your home node, so if there's still a bunch of competition the losses in your home node might outweigh what you're collecting from Venice.

Honestly it's probably not worth collecting in two different end nodes for you, you probably have enough control over stuff upstream that you can steer it all to your desired end node and collect it all there more efficiently.

Genoa and Venice together don't seem worth double collections to me, but Genoa (or Venice) and English Channel often can be if you have good power in both.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 13:45

Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

Mysticblade posted:

New dev diary up.

Basically, we can give a state bonuses in exchange for tripling the maintenance cost of that state. Some examples are:
code:
Enforce Religious Unity : 1% Missionary Strength
Protect Trade : +50% Provincial Trade Power
Promote Military Recruitment: +25% Manpower
Encourage Development: -10% Development Cost
Advancement Effort: +33% Institution Spread
Centralization Effort: -0.03 Monthly Autonomy
Also meant to be some UI clean up. Since this just requires money, it seems like a decent enough addition.

I'm really interested in where they've been going with this over the last few expansions. It looks a lot different from the basic map-painting of pre-Development-era EU4.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 14:15

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Wilekat posted:

I'm really interested in where they've been going with this over the last few expansions. It looks a lot different from the basic map-painting of pre-Development-era EU4.

The "feature bloat" is a bit much, but little things like this are what make things all good in fun in the end, I think. Being able to spend money to specialize/fix a problem/accomplish something hard is neat. Flexibility is fun.

Adding this thing that triples state maintenance for a boon is cool because it makes the thing that lowers state maintenance by 25% much more appealing.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 14:35

Yashichi: Oct 22, 2010

It doesn't actually, since it will likely be additive so you get +200% -25% for a total of +175% maintenance

# ? Feb 7, 2017 17:37

Godlovesus: Oct 16, 2015; Ask me about continually throwing myself at the enemy and losing every single time in EU4 Multiplayer.

Yashichi posted:

It doesn't actually, since it will likely be additive so you get +200% -25% for a total of +175% maintenance

Looking at johans example though it's added on seperately afterwards? So state maint reduction is applied after the cost increase

In his example the base cost was 1, edict makes a + 200% for cost 3 and then the courthouse kicks in with -25 % for a total cost of 2.25, meaning the increase was only 125% rather than 175% as you might have assumed.

Might make expensive provinces worth it,
Especially since capital regions aren't free anymore

# ? Feb 7, 2017 17:54

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

Jabor posted:

Essentially if you're only collecting in your main trade port, you get +10% trade power in that node for every merchant you have steering trade elsewhere in the world. If you put a merchant collecting in Venice, you lose those bonuses in your home node, so if there's still a bunch of competition the losses in your home node might outweigh what you're collecting from Venice.

Honestly it's probably not worth collecting in two different end nodes for you, you probably have enough control over stuff upstream that you can steer it all to your desired end node and collect it all there more efficiently.

Humm, so bottom line is: I wont get nothing worth of Venice even though is a very rich node and I control 87% of it. That's sad

# ? Feb 7, 2017 18:05

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Elias_Maluco posted:

Humm, so bottom line is: I wont get nothing worth of Venice even though is a very rich node and I control 87% of it. That's sad

How much of Genoa do you own?

# ? Feb 7, 2017 18:42

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1WstlfxNYA

lol

# ? Feb 7, 2017 18:46

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Koramei posted:

Upgrading from the lower tier building to cathedrals/ counting houses is almost never worth it, but building them from scratch can be.

That's not actually what that means. Building a cathedral from scratch has the same total cost as building a temple and then upgrading. The upgrade ROI just shows how long it takes for the upgrade to turn a profit relative to the unupgraded building, or in other words it's assuming that the temple has already paid for itself.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 18:58

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

How much of Genoa do you own?

77%

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:02

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

Fister Roboto posted:

That's not actually what that means. Building a cathedral from scratch has the same total cost as building a temple and then upgrading. The upgrade ROI just shows how long it takes for the upgrade to turn a profit relative to the unupgraded building, or in other words it's assuming that the temple has already paid for itself.

ahh thanks

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:03

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Elias_Maluco posted:

77%

Huh, I would not have expected that much of a drop-off, but I guess it is what it is. Maybe once you are around 90% for each you can collect in both? I've never been in a position to own two end nodes.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:04

Elotana: Dec 12, 2003; and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

Luigi Thirty posted:

My 83-year-old Kind-Hearted 4/4/4 pope died and was replaced by a 4/4/5 45-year-old Malevolent pope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=591n8GKvyaY

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:32

LaSalsaVerde: Mar 3, 2013

Any advice on doing a horde->Golden Horde game? I seem to be poo poo with steppe nomads as Muscovy stomped me even after I ate Kazan as Great Horde. Also basically all of my allies either wussed out of that war or betrayed me before hand to rival me.

I also seemed to have better results baiting defensive fights onto forests even with the -25% shock damage?

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:32

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

The "feature bloat" is a bit much, but little things like this are what make things all good in fun in the end, I think. Being able to spend money to specialize/fix a problem/accomplish something hard is neat. Flexibility is fun.

Adding this thing that triples state maintenance for a boon is cool because it makes the thing that lowers state maintenance by 25% much more appealing.

There is no feature bloat, these are new features and content being added to the game. I'm glad they are adding it.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:37

Elotana: Dec 12, 2003; and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

LaSalsaVerde posted:

Any advice on doing a horde->Golden Horde game?

You're razing everything right? Always Be Razing

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:36

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

Cripple Muscovy as soon as you can. In my run I allied Novgorod right at the start and went in with them probably in the first 5 years or so.

Abuse your estates too, the horde interactions are very helpful. And something crazy must have happened in those battles because you should be getting way, way better results by abusing your terrain bonus than the opposite.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:38

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Huh, I would not have expected that much of a drop-off, but I guess it is what it is. Maybe once you are around 90% for each you can collect in both? I've never been in a position to own two end nodes.

Yeah, me neither. It happens when you conquer the whole Italy

I will try some different merchant setups later, see if I can make Venice worth something. I also have a merchant collecting in Genoa, even though its my home node, cause Ive read somewhere that it gives a trade power boost, I dont know if it really makes any difference

Also, Ive formed Italy for the first time and found that I better keep my Genoa ideas, otherwise the maintenance costs of my huge navy will almost double. Its the biggest navy Ive ever had in this game, 310 ships (80 of them heavy), even the Ottomans cant match it

Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 7, 2017

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:41

awesmoe: Nov 30, 2005; Pillbug

Elias_Maluco posted:

Yeah, me neither. It happens when you conquer the whole Italy

I will try some different merchant setups later, see if I can make Venice worth something. I also have a merchant collecting in Genoa, even though its my home node, cause Ive read somewhere that it gives a trade power boost, I dont know if it really makes any difference

How much bonus trade power are you getting from your merchants upstream? I'm guessing that you're getting like +100% from merchants, which stops happening if you collect somewhere other than home node. You can check in the trade node dialog's tooltip, I think.

In this, as in so many other cases, the solution is to smash the poo poo out of everyone else and take every province in the genoa trade node.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 19:54

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

awesmoe posted:

How much bonus trade power are you getting from your merchants upstream? I'm guessing that you're getting like +100% from merchants, which stops happening if you collect somewhere other than home node. You can check in the trade node dialog's tooltip, I think.

In this, as in so many other cases, the solution is to smash the poo poo out of everyone else and take every province in the genoa trade node.

I dont know about this bonus, I have so many hours in this game and the whole trade system is still kinda obscure to me.

My trade income is pretty fine (85 g), but maybe it could be even higher, considering I have 12 merchants and more than a 100 light ships

I already have almost all of Genoa, and stock markets almost in every single province. I think its all except some in Aragon and some in France. Taking Aragon is what I indent to do next, but France I will leave alone, they are my buddies

# ? Feb 7, 2017 20:13

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Rakthar posted:

There is no feature bloat, these are new features and content being added to the game. I'm glad they are adding it.

For feature bloat I was referring to the new Splendor mechanic that is coming with the patch. I dont mind the extra features like them cleaning up the UI and optimizing the tools, as well as new features for province interactions. There is just already so much to worry about that adding a useful new tool like what is outlined in the Dev Diary is cool but also yet another thing to juggle/manage as a player.

Elias_Maluco posted:

Also, Ive formed Italy for the first time and found that I better keep my Genoa ideas, otherwise the maintenance costs of my huge navy will almost double. Its the biggest navy Ive ever had in this game, 310 ships (80 of them heavy), even the Ottomans cant match it

Thats a bananas fleet.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 20:26

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

For feature bloat I was referring to the new Splendor mechanic that is coming with the patch. I dont mind the extra features like them cleaning up the UI and optimizing the tools, as well as new features for province interactions. There is just already so much to worry about that adding a useful new tool like what is outlined in the Dev Diary is cool but also yet another thing to juggle/manage as a player.

Yeah that's the thing, I think there's players that play EU4 regularly and are pretty much up to speed on all the features. For them, adding new content gives them more stuff to do and it's really not feature bloat. For other players that are coming back from a break since the last major patch / expansion they cared about, I get how that stuff can seem overwhelming.

So if we're weighing adding new features to EU4 or worrying about feature bloat, I think we are still well into the 'add new features' territory and will be for a while. I disagree with the idea that EU4 is anywhere near the feature or complexity cap, or that we should think about paring them back.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 20:40

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Rakthar posted:

Yeah that's the thing, I think there's players that play EU4 regularly and are pretty much up to speed on all the features. For them, adding new content gives them more stuff to do and it's really not feature bloat. For other players that are coming back from a break since the last major patch / expansion they cared about, I get how that stuff can seem overwhelming.

So if we're weighing adding new features to EU4 or worrying about feature bloat, I think we are still well into the 'add new features' territory and will be for a while. I disagree with the idea that EU4 is anywhere near the feature or complexity cap, or that we should think about paring them back.

My problem is that many of the new features do not interact with each other or do very similar things. There is autonomy, the loot bar, and now devastation all affecting simply how productive a province is on top of its three development values and other modifiers that can be applied, then there are estates. There is Stability, Corruption, Legitimacy, and Over Extension all sorta-of touching on the same thing and all managed independently despite how they should be intertwined- I just think about a situation where "Well, our corruption is out of control because we had to put all of our money into hiring mercenaries, our overextension is dangerously high, the king just died in battle and his bastard son isnt well liked, but at least we have two stability" - what?!? It sounds to me like stability should be tied in with the other factors that are indicative of how stable the realm is right now...the realm sounds unstable if corruption and overextension are high and legitimacy low, but my "stability" stat tells me that my stability is at 5 on a scale of 6.

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Feb 7, 2017

# ? Feb 7, 2017 22:16

Tsyni: Sep 1, 2004; Lipstick Apathy

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

My problem is that many of the new features do not interact with each other or do very similar things. There is autonomy, the loot bar, and now devastation all affecting simply how productive a province is, then there are estates. There is Stability, Corruption, Legitimacy, and Over Extension all sorta-of touching on the same thing and all managed independently despite how they should be intertwined- I just think about a situation where "Well, our corruption is out of control because we had to put all of our money into hiring mercenaries, our overextension is dangerously high, the king just died in battle and his bastard son isnt well liked, but at least we have two stability" - what?!? It sounds to me like stability should be tied in with the other factors that are indicative of how stable the realm is right now.

Yeah, I basically agree with this. It's an issue with their DLC model, even though I buy every DLC as soon as it drops.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 22:28

Gniwu: Dec 18, 2002

Where in the files are names for states and territories stored?

I'm currently running a Maya game with the Extended Timeline mod, and one of my states is properly named 'Yucatan', but to the east of that is one called only by its internal name of 'east_yucatan_area'. A search of both the vanilla and the mod directories didn't turn up anything useful, which really surprised me, because that method usually lets me locate problem sources very quickly.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 22:55

feller: Jul 5, 2006

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

My problem is that many of the new features do not interact with each other or do very similar things. There is autonomy, the loot bar, and now devastation all affecting simply how productive a province is on top of its three development values and other modifiers that can be applied, then there are estates. There is Stability, Corruption, Legitimacy, and Over Extension all sorta-of touching on the same thing and all managed independently despite how they should be intertwined- I just think about a situation where "Well, our corruption is out of control because we had to put all of our money into hiring mercenaries, our overextension is dangerously high, the king just died in battle and his bastard son isnt well liked, but at least we have two stability" - what?!? It sounds to me like stability should be tied in with the other factors that are indicative of how stable the realm is right now...the realm sounds unstable if corruption and overextension are high and legitimacy low, but my "stability" stat tells me that my stability is at 5 on a scale of 6.

I'd rather have more levers than fewer when it comes to managing how stable my empire is, to be quite honest. Anyway, it seems like they actually are integrating devastation with the older mechanics much more tightly than say corruption (which I agree with you 100% on ).

# ? Feb 7, 2017 23:15

TorakFade: Oct 3, 2006; I strongly disapprove

Well it took until 1730 and Russia, france, Spain and Austria on my side but the Ottomans are beaten and Prester John + blessed nation one peace deal away.

Only problem is I don't have enough warscore to give Russia the land I promised them.. Sorry, Russia. You'll just have to deal with me being a treasonous rear end in a top hat I guess.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 23:52

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Gimmick Account posted:

Where in the files are names for states and territories stored?

I'm currently running a Maya game with the Extended Timeline mod, and one of my states is properly named 'Yucatan', but to the east of that is one called only by its internal name of 'east_yucatan_area'. A search of both the vanilla and the mod directories didn't turn up anything useful, which really surprised me, because that method usually lets me locate problem sources very quickly.

Are you filtering by file extension? They should be in the localization files, which at one time were .csv's, but I think have been refactored since I last looked a long time ago.

fe: wiki says they're in localisation\*.yml

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:00

Gniwu: Dec 18, 2002

PittTheElder posted:

Are you filtering by file extension? They should be in the localization files, which at one time were .csv's, but I think have been refactored since I last looked a long time ago.

fe: wiki says they're in localisation\*.yml

Nope, no filters. I even did the really slow 'search file contents'-thing and it still only turned up one result for either states of 'Yucatan' or 'east_yucatan_area' - The one where it lists the provinces they contain.

The directory with the various yml-files only gave me something about the province of Yucatan.

:iiam:

EDIT: And yeah, I realize that what I'm saying cannot possibly be correct, because then EVERY state would just be like the east_yucatan one. Don't ask me!

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:16

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

No idea where they're stored, but there's another area in Arabia that goes by ad_dahra_region. Not quite as funny as King noruler as far as these bugs go, so I expect it will be patched out when the next expansion launches.

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:23

oddium: Feb 21, 2006; end of the 4.5 tatami age

i noticed east_yucatan during my aztec run but it bothered me for like two seconds before i went back to watching netflix and waiting for europe

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:26

Gniwu: Dec 18, 2002

oddium posted:

i noticed east_yucatan during my aztec run but it bothered me for like two seconds before i went back to watching netflix and waiting for europe

Assuming that you ran a vanilla game, that at least narrows the problem down to 'not the sloppy mod's fault'. It's a start!

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:33

sloshmonger: Mar 21, 2013

Elias_Maluco posted:

Humm, so bottom line is: I wont get nothing worth of Venice even though is a very rich node and I control 87% of it. That's sad

If you want to get something out of Venice while not removing the bonus you get from only collecting in your home node, consider sending pirates to Venice. They'll only give you about 40% of what they take, but its' better than 0.

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:46

oddium: Feb 21, 2006; end of the 4.5 tatami age

Gimmick Account posted:

Assuming that you ran a vanilla game, that at least narrows the problem down to 'not the sloppy mod's fault'. It's a start!

i play eu4 as god intended, which is to say ironman and without cossacks/mare nostrum

# ? Feb 8, 2017 01:55

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

oddium posted:

without cossacks

hosed up if true

# ? Feb 8, 2017 04:22

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# ? May 12, 2024 16:11

steakmancer: May 18, 2010; by Lowtax

This game has broken my brain and now I can only think of politics in terms of EU4 mechanics

# ? Feb 8, 2017 05:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Europa Universalis IV: Buying all the DLC is just Common Sense

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