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Timby posted:So Spiner gets his bobo to write a script that basically jacks him off for the entire runtime, the movie's directed by a guy who flat-out didn't want to be there ... it was doomed from the start. Nemesis is proof of why you don't let the cast control the script, and why you don't let "fans" write.  Not gonna say you're wrong about Logan and Baird, but I think that there are times when having the cast have strong input into characters they know can be good--so long as their ego doesn't get in the way. And having fans write and produce the product is the best, so long as they are also skilled in their craft. Doctor Who is a franchise that has been essentially taken over by meganerds who were fans since childhood, and with some notable exceptions, it's been doing great and handing in a superior product that's a worldwide hit for the past 10 years. It's what I want to see on Discovery, but what I fear we'll get is the cluelessness of Baird ("Geordi is an alien, right?) and network interference on par with "let's get a hot musical act in the lounge every week!" without a long term entrenched production team to say no. The main problem with Nemesis for me was that it was too flat--very slick and pretty but 2 dimensional. There wasn't a lot there, just a bunch of dumb setpieces thrown in that made no sense, like "B-4" or "Picard has a young clone who is somehow now running the Romulan Empire." It all sounds like those nightmare studio pitches you hear about that are totally horrible and clueless about the franchise and thankfully never get made--except this one did. Compare and contrast to Star Trek Beyond which has a ton of callbacks but is tightly plotted and just works well. As to why nobody saw it, well coming off Insurrection they needed a Great Movie, and they turned in poo poo so word of mouth tanked.
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Feb 19, 2017 15:18
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I once saw a lady in front of me in line at check out in the library. She rented the DVD for Nemesis. Maybe her family just got into Star Trek. I still regret not stopping her.
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Feb 19, 2017 15:39
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Poor Geordi never caught a break during the filming, either That quote reminds me of the M. Night Shamalan Avatar: the Last Airbender movie. Shamalan swears he is a big fan of the show, but he has everyone in his movie consistently mispronounce everything. Instead of a long "a" in Aang, it's a short "a." Ah-ng. Sokka's sock-a becomes soh-ka. He even has everyone pronounce the word "avatar" with a short "a," like ah-vah-tar. Avatar is an actual loving word, so why would you have everyone mispronounce it?! It's loving infuriating, and that's without even mentioning how godawful everything else about that movie is. The pronunciation more than anything else proves that he's full of poo poo and didn't watch the show. It would be one less thing to complain about if he just owned-up and admitted he didn't know or care anything about the source material.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:12
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Railing Kill posted:The pronunciation more than anything else proves that he's full of poo poo and didn't watch the show. It would be one less thing to complain about if he just owned-up and admitted he didn't know or care anything about the source material. Didn't he like, push for it to get made though? Maybe he thought attaching himself to the property would revive his career.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:16
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Railing Kill posted:He even has everyone pronounce the word "avatar" with a short "a," like ah-vah-tar. Avatar is an actual loving word, so why would you have everyone mispronounce it?! Er, maybe you pronounce avatar incorrectly? I can't think of how your phonetic notation there is somehow different than how I've ever heard it said.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:36
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Er, maybe you pronounce avatar incorrectly? I can't think of how your phonetic notation there is somehow different than how I've ever heard it said. It was more like Uh-vah-tar.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:39
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Railing Kill posted:That quote reminds me of the M. Night Shamalan Avatar: the Last Airbender movie. Shamalan swears he is a big fan of the show, but he has everyone in his movie consistently mispronounce everything. Instead of a long "a" in Aang, it's a short "a." Ah-ng. Sokka's sock-a becomes soh-ka. He even has everyone pronounce the word "avatar" with a short "a," like ah-vah-tar. Avatar is an actual loving word, so why would you have everyone mispronounce it?! It's loving infuriating, and that's without even mentioning how godawful everything else about that movie is. The pronunciation more than anything else proves that he's full of poo poo and didn't watch the show. It would be one less thing to complain about if he just owned-up and admitted he didn't know or care anything about the source material. When the earth benders slowly moved some boulders around instead of doing all the cool poo poo from the cartoon, I figured he had never seen the show at all.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:40
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WickedHate posted:I don't follow, that seems like the opposite problem Nemesis had. Logan did have encyclopedic knowledge of every episode, he's a turbonerd -- that's why Berman and Spiner kept on saying that fans should be excited about Nemesis, because "one of them" had written the script. And if you read the script, it's filled with references to TNG episodes ("so and so happens, just like in the episode where Data discovers masturbation"). And even the finished product itself feels like bad fan-fiction: Giant gently caress-off ship with eleventy billion weapons? Check. Captain walking around the ship giving a dour monologue in preparation for battle (just like in Best of Both Worlds!)? Check. Kill off a character just because? Check. Ham-fisted references to past episodes? Check. People complain about Into Darkness ripping off Wrath of Khan, but in many respects Nemesis is just shamelessly aping Khan, down to the science officer sacrificing himself to save the ship from a ticking-clock doomsday device. Unfortunately, everyone involved was too busy getting high on their own farts to realize, "Wait a minute ... this guy gave us a complete piece of poo poo." Edit: It really is amazing how Logan has failed upward in his career: Bats: Utter poo poo. RKO 281: Plagiarized The Battle Over Citizen Kane so blatantly that they had to give its producers a "Based upon" credit to avoid a lawsuit. Any Given Sunday: A very weird mess. Gladiator: Rewritten almost completely but got credit (and his Oscar) because of WGA arbitration. The Time Machine: Utter poo poo. Nemesis: Utter poo poo. Sinbad:  The Last Samurai: Rewritten almost completely by Zwick. The Aviator: Rewritten top-to-bottom by an uncredited Michael Mann (amusingly, this was revealed by a drunken Leo DiCaprio at an Oscars after-party). Sweeney Todd: Basically a straight adaptation of Sondheim. Rango: OK, I'll give him that one. Coriolanus: Hard to mess up Shakespeare. Hugo: That movie's strength is its visuals, not its script. Skyfall: Misogynistic mess. Spectre: Utter poo poo. Timby fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 17:17
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Er, maybe you pronounce avatar incorrectly? I can't think of how your phonetic notation there is somehow different than how I've ever heard it said. Yeah, I meant the first syllable was pronounced like a doctor says "ah" in "say ahhhhh." Or, VanSandman posted:It was more like Uh-vah-tar. This. Cojawfee posted:When the earth benders slowly moved some boulders around instead of doing all the cool poo poo from the cartoon, I figured he had never seen the show at all. Definitely. There were so many things wrong, and not just in a cinematic way. They were things that could have been avoided by watching literally one episode Any episode. Some fans pitched a fit about the Fire Nation being Indian actors, but I'm actually ok with that, at least compared to all the other dumb poo poo. Shyamalan clearly wanted to give his Indian bros some work, and I can respect that. It cost the Imperial Japan flavor of the Fire Nation, but that was the least of the movie's problems. For my money, the biggest crime was casting:  A non-comic actor as Uncle Iroh, and a comic actor (Aasif Mandvi) next to him as the unfunny tryhard Admiral Zhao. Why not give Mandvi old guy makeup and let him be Iroh? He's right there. A white kid playing a Tibetan. White kids playing Inuits. This was a movie with a rare opportunity to cast virtually all non-white actors for once, and yet they hosed it up anyway. Shyamalan isn't solely to blame for casting decisions, but then again he clearly had enough sway to influence the Fire Nation casting so....God, gently caress that movie. I'm going to go watch some ENT.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:14
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The problem with the Fire Nation casting wasn't that it went from Japan to India, but that all the heroes(coded Asian and Native American) were cast as white while all the bad guys were now brown.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:22
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Timby posted:People complain about Into Darkness ripping off Wrath of Khan, but in many respects Nemesis is just shamelessly aping Khan, down to the science officer sacrificing himself to save the ship from a ticking-clock doomsday device.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:23
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CharlieWhiskey posted:I was the trekkiest trekker in my group of friends who went to see Nemesis on the big screen and walking out of the theater I was speechless because I had just dragged a pile of people to a lovely retread of TWoK. I was ashamed and embarrassed at what could have been TNG's swan song but was instead a wet fart. I was going to college in Wisconsin, and I drove down to the University of Illinois to see it with two of my childhood friends. I remember expecting it to be terrible, because I had already read the script (and The Facer's amazing takedown of it), but as we walked out of the theater, we all looked at each other as though to say, "That ... sucked." And I drove like six hours one-way for that. 
Timby fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 20:41
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I vaguely recall hearing a story that the girl who played Katara in The Last Airbender was a relative of some executive who more or less forced her on the production, which of course meant they had to cast a white actor to play Sokka... but then all the other members of the Southern Water Tribe were played by Native American actors so I dunno what the gently caress.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:43
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Railing Kill posted:That quote reminds me of the M. Night Shamalan Avatar: the Last Airbender movie. Shamalan swears he is a big fan of the show, but he has everyone in his movie consistently mispronounce everything. Instead of a long "a" in Aang, it's a short "a." Ah-ng. Sokka's sock-a becomes soh-ka. He even has everyone pronounce the word "avatar" with a short "a," like ah-vah-tar. Avatar is an actual loving word, so why would you have everyone mispronounce it?! Yeah, what would a guy from India know about pronouncing a Hindustani loanword anyway?
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Feb 19, 2017 20:56
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Powered Descent posted:Yeah, what would a guy from India know about pronouncing a Hindustani loanword anyway? He was raised in Pennsylvania.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:00
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Powered Descent posted:Yeah, what would a guy from India know about pronouncing a Hindustani loanword anyway? Loanwords take on the pronunciation of the language they're used in, not necessarily the language they're from. English had thousands of words form French, for example, a ton of which aren't pronounced as the French would. Sometimes the adopted pronunciation is the same, and sometimes it's different. Literally no one in the English-speaking world pronounces it "uh-vah-tar," not the least of which is the film's source material. It's not rocket science, and this is just making excuses for M. Night Shyamalan being terrible. Let me know when you describe your avatar as a "rocket ship uh-vah-tar" on the reg and I'll change my tune. WampaLord posted:He was raised in Pennsylvania. There is also this.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:07
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dont even fink about it posted:I do remember Russell Crowe talking about ad-libbing or rewriting the dialogue in Gladiator scene by scene, and that even his character's original name sucked. Wait, you mean "Maximus" was an improvement?
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Feb 19, 2017 21:17
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Data Graham posted:Wait, you mean "Maximus" was an improvement? Ancient Rome's own Big McLargehuge. Edit: there was actually a Roman emperor named Magnus Maximus, though. It's not unheard of.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:20
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Data Graham posted:Wait, you mean "Maximus" was an improvement? In at least Franzoni's and Logan's drafts (I don't remember William Nicholson's off the top of my head), the main character is Narcissus (named for the actual Roman who murdered Commodus).
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Feb 19, 2017 21:23
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There were very many actual Romans named Maximus, but the best was the short lived 4th century emperor Flavius Magnus Maximus, or Flavius the Great the Greatest.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:24
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I'm sure it was very common, but if you're writing a fictional story, you could at least try to come up with a name that doesn't sound like you just opened up a Latin proper name book and grabbed the topmost adjective.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:27
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Of all the ridiculous things in Gladiator to nitpick, I'm not sure why the main character's boring name is top of the list. It sure beats "Merikus" from Bread & Circuses
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Feb 19, 2017 21:39
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I ran into a couple I know at the local comic store just now and the wife had been working on Star Trek Discovery. She obviously couldn't tell me but she did tell me the guy who leaked the picture is basically a pariah now because he is black listed from the Canadian Actors union, can't get an agent or work. So basically he hosed his career for what? To get everyone mad at the show before it comes out? She also told me the whole production is super rushed, chaotic and just wasteful. They build sets then find out the scene the set was going to be for has been cut so they have to rip it down. They're so desperate to get it out ASAP they were just hiring anyone with any experience in film and tv to come in and do work. She is a costumer so she worked on the leaked costumes. One of the side effects is that apparently the designers and workers on the costumes were actually pretty proud of them and could not wait to see people reactions to them in the show, but now that's ruined because everyone's seen a lovely picture of them all having snacks.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:26
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Who would you like to see compose the music for the show? I know he is very busy and pretty much flavour of the month but I think Bear McCreary would do a good job. He has written scores for Sci Fi before yet his work is totally different to anything done in Star Trek before.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:34
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twistedmentat posted:She also told me the whole production is super rushed, chaotic and just wasteful. This doesn't shock me in the slightest. Fuller was pushed out the door because he's notorious for not wanting to roll cameras until at least all the stories are completed (and ideally at least a majority of the scripts) and was responsible for at least the first release delay, and they replaced him with some of Alex Kurtzman's Bad Robot folks. From the Newsweek interview last year, it sounded like CBS had entered panic mode and was basically saying, "Get something -- anything -- out the door." Sad King Billy posted:Who would you like to see compose the music for the show? Well, Fil Eisler composed the music in the launch trailer from a little while ago, so I'd think that might be a sign that he's got the job. Charles Henri Avelange is also known to have auditioned: https://twitter.com/charlesavelange/status/816817248757161985 As for who I'd like to see do it, Dennis McCarthy or Ron Jones, no contest. Timby fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 23:34
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Sad King Billy posted:Who would you like to see compose the music for the show? Ennio Morricone.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:39
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Even as someone who liked JJ Trek two out of three times, I really wish Trek would get a decent TV chance at coming back in the modern era, but I guess it's going to be another horrific shitshow.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:40
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Sad King Billy posted:Who would you like to see compose the music for the show? Anyone but Giacchino.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:54
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King Hong Kong posted:Anyone but Giacchino. Especially after his awful Rogue One score. I'd have rather heard them use temp music.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:59
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Especially after his awful Rogue One score. I'd have rather heard them use temp music. To be fair, he was incredibly rushed on Rogue One. He had literally a month to compose the entire thing after Desplat stepped out.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:00
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Timby posted:To be fair, he was incredibly rushed on Rogue One. He had literally a month to compose the entire thing after Desplat stepped out. I know, but even what he completed sounds completely inappropriate for the film. The one recurring melody he used was so bizarre that it took me out of every scene it was in. I'd pay real money to hear the unfinished Desplat score.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:06
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Railing Kill posted:That quote reminds me of the M. Night Shamalan Avatar: the Last Airbender movie. Shamalan swears he is a big fan of the show, but he has everyone in his movie consistently mispronounce everything. Instead of a long "a" in Aang, it's a short "a." Ah-ng. Sokka's sock-a becomes soh-ka. He even has everyone pronounce the word "avatar" with a short "a," like ah-vah-tar. Avatar is an actual loving word, so why would you have everyone mispronounce it?! It's loving infuriating, and that's without even mentioning how godawful everything else about that movie is. The pronunciation more than anything else proves that he's full of poo poo and didn't watch the show. It would be one less thing to complain about if he just owned-up and admitted he didn't know or care anything about the source material. Funny thing about The Last Airbender is that it fell into the same problem NuTrek has. Paramount somehow got it into its head that it would become the next giant film franchise (IIRC, the idea was that they'd make each of the three seasons into a movie and have their own LOTR trilogy), so there were a whole lot of unreasonable expectations for the movie to be a phenomenal success. Then they went and hired a guy best known for medium-low budget supernatural thrillers to direct it, and the result was basically David Lynch's Dune without the charming idiosyncrasy. Come to think of it, when I think of the tribulations of the Avatar franchise, I keep thinking of Star Trek as a comparison. I still sometimes consider Legend of Korra as a sorta-TNG/DS9 hybrid to the original show (there's even a ~100 year timeskip between the shows) that wasn't able to reach its fullest potential, a matter due in part to keeping the same production team between shows.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:07
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I'm more amazed at how close ATLA/Korra got to being what they wanted to be than disappointed by the setbacks they faced. They left me with the same feeling Babylon 5 did: "Holy poo poo, they actually told a complete story, they overcame the stupid poo poo the networks and actors' realities dumped on them and somehow made something fresh and alive that transcended its limitations". It's really something special when it never feels workmanlike, when you can tell they're just having fun making it. Like the Ember Island Players.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:34
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Marshal Radisic posted:Funny thing about The Last Airbender is that it fell into the same problem NuTrek has. Paramount somehow got it into its head that it would become the next giant film franchise (IIRC, the idea was that they'd make each of the three seasons into a movie and have their own LOTR trilogy), so there were a whole lot of unreasonable expectations for the movie to be a phenomenal success. Then they went and hired a guy best known for medium-low budget supernatural thrillers to direct it, and the result was basically David Lynch's Dune without the charming idiosyncrasy. The difference is that Paramount has made like $1.2 billion from NuTrek (and that's not even factoring in home video sales, which is just pure profit). Rough problem to have.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:39
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Why is CBS so gung-ho about releasing on this schedule? Do you know anyone who actually cares about anniversaries?
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Feb 20, 2017 00:56
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Arglebargle III posted:Why is CBS so gung-ho about releasing on this schedule? They aren't, considering they didn't start filming until after the originally announced premiere date. The thing is, though, delays cost money, because you're still paying production staff who are under contract, and in many cases paying them to do nothing. Pretty sure that's why CBS told Fuller to poo poo or get off the pot.
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Feb 20, 2017 01:04
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Timby posted:This doesn't shock me in the slightest. Fuller was pushed out the door because he's notorious for not wanting to roll cameras until at least all the stories are completed (and ideally at least a majority of the scripts) and was responsible for at least the first release delay, and they replaced him with some of Alex Kurtzman's Bad Robot folks. From the Newsweek interview last year, it sounded like CBS had entered panic mode and was basically saying, "Get something -- anything -- out the door." Why do I get the feeling this show is going to look and sound like every parody of Star Trek since SNL did it in the 70s
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Feb 20, 2017 01:15
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"Final Frontier" sounds as generic as it's title is original.
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Feb 20, 2017 01:18
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So it's been many a year since I watched an episode of voyager but it's been bothering me for years so I figured I'd ask here. I remember watching an episode where Janeway seems to die or has like an outer body experience or something and she seemingly meets God who is trying to convince her to come to the afterlife. This is an actual episode right? I think I watched it all fever stricken so I'm not sure if it's something I imagined or if it's a real thing. It's real right? I can't for the life of me remember the name or season or anything but I don't think 7 was in it yet. Could be wrong though
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Feb 20, 2017 01:21
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Timby posted:This doesn't shock me in the slightest. Fuller was pushed out the door because he's notorious for not wanting to roll cameras until at least all the stories are completed (and ideally at least a majority of the scripts) and was responsible for at least the first release delay, and they replaced him with some of Alex Kurtzman's Bad Robot folks. From the Newsweek interview last year, it sounded like CBS had entered panic mode and was basically saying, "Get something -- anything -- out the door." To be fair, I think Fuller was taking it at the normal preproduction pace for a bit space genre show, and for CBS had thought they could get it done at the same pace as a generic sitcom.
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