Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

IronicDongz posted:

you're thinking of controlled blink, dispersal, and disjunction.

I've still never made good use of dispersal and disjunction.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:37

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 01:59

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Floodkiller posted:

The criticism is based on the fact that, despite this information, the player has no in-game accessible knowledge of when these breakpoints will occur, nor how much the aptitude will be affected, until it happens. I'm wondering if this is a valid complaint that a player (casual or inexperienced with the species) could be caught off guard about, or if this can be comparable to species mutations/draconian colors (where the XL can be known by looking up out of game resources, but isn't referenced at all within the game itself). If the former, I need to figure out a way to communicate this information to the player in a way that does not break immersion/flat out throw the numbers in their face and expect them to understand it.

I'm pretty sure in the race select screen the short description for draconians explicitly says 'they gain a colour when they reach xl7'

However I also don't think it's a big deal to not immediately know the break points for apt drops, just that they happen. It's not like you lose any XP when it happens and demonspawn also doesn't spell out the mechanics of their body/scales/2x unique muts/endcap mutation structure.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:38

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

You bark for attention!

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:41

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

Heh, I read an un-ID scroll of immolation and then stabbed one of Pikel's slaves, which caused a hilarious chain reaction. I'm sure this character is doomed to some dumb fate but eat least that was neat.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:43

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

IronicDongz posted:

you're thinking of controlled blink, dispersal, and disjunction.

I was really just making a singularity joke. The thing is though, in every game in which I've been able to cast these, I also haven't actually needed them. I picked up controlled blink in my last win and never used it once, and it's the best of those three spells.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:44

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Darox posted:

I'm pretty sure in the race select screen the short description for draconians explicitly says 'they gain a colour when they reach xl7'

You are correct and I am dumb :downs:

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:45

dyzzy: Dec 22, 2009; argh

I just whirled and slowed an orb of destruction.

IJC best god.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 03:45

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

Fr: Someone (maybe me at some stage if I figure out all the git protocols) needs to update the summon canine familiar spell in some of the following ways:

1. Make the summon a permanent summon / a stair follower
2. Let it earn experience by killing
3. Make its experience persistent through death/resummoning
4. Cause pain to the player (1dmaxHP/2 of the summon?) each time it dies, so players look after it.
5. Maybe make it appear at the edge of the players vision so it's not useful as a hasty battle summon

It just seems like it's lacking something in its current form. Something to differentiate it from being just another ignored low level summon, it might make the dungeon trip less lonely and gives you something to invest in early/mid game.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 04:38

dpeg: Jul 18, 2008; As far as I see it, you should never go to SA to look out for useful feedback or even interesting ideas; I certainly don't

Goffer posted:

Fr: Someone (maybe me at some stage if I figure out all the git protocols) needs to update the summon canine familiar spell in some of the following ways:

1. Make the summon a permanent summon / a stair follower
2. Let it earn experience by killing
3. Make its experience persistent through death/resummoning
4. Cause pain to the player (1dmaxHP/2 of the summon?) each time it dies, so players look after it.
5. Maybe make it appear at the edge of the players vision so it's not useful as a hasty battle summon

It just seems like it's lacking something in its current form. Something to differentiate it from being just another ignored low level summon, it might make the dungeon trip less lonely and gives you something to invest in early/mid game.

This is not spell stuff. Permanent summons are problematic even on gods.

4. is worrisome on its own: do you really want characters to die because they had this summon?

I think there's some untapped potential with summon spells, but they have to be temporary, in my opinion.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 04:49

brainwrinkle: Oct 18, 2009; What's going on in here?; Buglord

FR: summon canine familiar temporarily summons another player currently playing a Cyno into your game and you co-op for as long as the spell lasts. In offline mode you have to hotseat with a dog.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 04:52

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

I want to see some Final Fantasy style summon spells where you summon a thing, after a turn or two it does some huge dramatic attack, then vanishes. Also killing via summon should afford full XP.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 04:55

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Ferrinus posted:

I want to see some Final Fantasy style summon spells where you summon a thing, after a turn or two it does some huge dramatic attack, then vanishes.

have you heard the good word of Fulminating Prism, my friend?

Ferrinus posted:

Also killing via summon should afford full XP.

agreed

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:01

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

Goffer posted:

Fr: Someone (maybe me at some stage if I figure out all the git protocols) needs to update the summon canine familiar spell in some of the following ways:

1. Make the summon a permanent summon / a stair follower
2. Let it earn experience by killing
3. Make its experience persistent through death/resummoning
4. Cause pain to the player (1dmaxHP/2 of the summon?) each time it dies, so players look after it.
5. Maybe make it appear at the edge of the players vision so it's not useful as a hasty battle summon

It just seems like it's lacking something in its current form. Something to differentiate it from being just another ignored low level summon, it might make the dungeon trip less lonely and gives you something to invest in early/mid game.

Canine Familiar is already unique, it's the only summon in the starter book that can see invisible.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:01

dyzzy: Dec 22, 2009; argh

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/dyzzy/morgue-dyzzy-20170222-041158.txt

code:

1847382 dyzzy the Heavyweight Champion (level 26, 247/254 HPs)
             Began as a Troll Monk on Feb 21, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Ieoh Jian.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on Feb 22, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 03:36:54 (56786 turns).

I'd take this over trog/okawaru any day of the week. Splatted a lot in the early game to OoDs/hydras I didn't have the good sense to run away from but this dude got super lucky with a randart quicksilver dragon armour in a shop and eventually got beefy enough to just tear through zot. I think I had to use heavenly clouds like once in zot proper. Also while doing the orb run a pan lord got next to me so I quaffed haste and ran around him to flee and wound up just killing it with whirlwind.

Anyways even while I was getting killed I was having a blast with IJC. A very good addition to the game imo.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:16

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

dpeg posted:

This is not spell stuff. Permanent summons are problematic even on gods.

4. is worrisome on its own: do you really want characters to die because they had this summon?

I think there's some untapped potential with summon spells, but they have to be temporary, in my opinion.

What makes a permanent summon problematic? Coding wise or balance/power wise? Beregoth worshippers get plenty (speaking of which, there should be Orc Houndmasters who get pet doggies). As it's defined as a familiar summon, and it's capped at 1 at a time, it feels likes at least the duration should be a lot longer.

4. could be a drain, or other negative status (*sad) to mark the passing of a permanent summon.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:18

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

It's entirely outside of the breadth/purview of what spells cover; honestly it sounds like you'd have more fun just playing Hep if you want a constant companion like that.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:27

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

PleasingFungus posted:

have you heard the good word of Fulminating Prism, my friend?

Pretty sure he said huge and dramatic. You know, not like a chipmunk sneezing.

Don't mind me, I'm just pissed off about ForceLance+FulmPrism somehow being assumed to replace Battlesphere...

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:28

Snacks and Violence: Sep 18, 2004; ...and he kept stabbing them, again and again. He's a halfling, he's supposed to be jolly...Why isn't he jolly? WHY ISN'T HE JOLLY?

After playing this drat game off and on for close to a god drat decade it feels really nice to finally get a win.

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0 (console) character file.

2309630 Horn the Conqueror (level 27, 253/273 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Feb 18, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Trog.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes on Feb 19, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 04:46:59 (76098 turns).

Horn the Conqueror (Minotaur Berserker)            Turns: 76098, Time: 04:46:59

Health: 253/273    AC: 49    Str: 31    XL:     27
Magic:  34/34      EV: 18    Int:  6    God:    Trog [******]
Gold:   6918       SH:  0    Dex:  9    Spells: 0 memorised, 26 levels left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis .    c - +8 battleaxe {chop, rF+ rN+}
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    M - +8 gold dragon scales
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    H - +2 hat
rElec  +          Reflect  .    N - +1 cloak of Indemnity {*Corrode +Inv rC+ Dex+2}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    K - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
MR     +++..      Clarity  +    S - +2 pair of boots of Hacruj {Regen+ rCorr Dex-5 Slay+4}
Stlth  ..........               I - amulet of Ciosmy {+Rage rElec rPois rC- rN++}
                                k - ring of Hiutzovu {rElec rC+ MR+ Slay+2}
                                w - +6 ring of slaying

@: very slightly contaminated
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, clarity, clever 1, deterioration 1, weak 1
a: Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Burn Spellbooks, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Invisibility
0: Orb of Zot
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, silver, abyssal


You escaped.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 52 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 2 times.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Sewer, Bailey and Ice Cave.

You collected 10710 gold pieces.
You spent 3792 gold pieces at shops.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:37

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Wrecked Mara like he was nothing. Got cocky with Nikolai and no resist electric in shoals. RIP triple sword wielding crystal plate mail wearing formicid. Thought you were going to be my first online play ascension. Also webtiles has finally got to the point to make me switch from local forever, thanks devs.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:39

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Nikola feels like a "do you have a potion of resist" check, whenever I see him. Chug one and chump him

# ? Feb 22, 2017 05:41

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

Level 7 ring find:

Gonna splat so hard.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 06:01

Turtlicious: Sep 17, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Is there a way to play online with the offline client? I like a lot of the features on the offline client, but I also like playing with goons.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 06:44

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Can Of Worms posted:

Canine Familiar is already unique, it's the only summon in the starter book that can see invisible.

It also scales very well with power. Wolves and wargs do serious damage, and because they're so fast, you can just walk away from enemies while the summon nips them to pieces.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 08:09

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Spectral weapon is already a "summon" that share pain with the player anyways.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 08:52

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-710-g71b569a (webtiles) character file.

1888588 bananaken the Slayer (level 27, 220/229 HPs)
             Began as a Vampire Earth Elementalist on Feb 21, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Kikubaaqudgha.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes on Feb 22, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 11:51:16 (120783 turns).

bananaken the Slayer (Vampire Earth Elementalist) Turns: 120783, Time: 11:51:17

Health: 220/229    AC: 31    Str: 20    XL:     27
Magic:  41/41      EV: 24    Int: 25    God:    Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold:   5952       SH:  8    Dex: 19    Spells: 2/44 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   a - +7 double sword of Infinity {pain, rElec MR+ MP+9}
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   e - +7 fire dragon scales {Xtahua}
rNeg     + + .     Faith    .   K - +0 buckler {rF+}
rPois    +         Spirit   .   Y - +2 helmet
rElec    +         Reflect  .   t - scarf of the Heavens {Str+7}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   f - +2 pair of gloves {archery}
MR       +++..                  p - +1 pair of boots of the Tick {Regen+ Str+2 Int+3}
Stlth    +.........             l - amulet of regeneration
Regen    0.7/turn               W - ring of protection from fire
MPRegen  0.3/turn               R - ring of protection from cold

@: regenerating slowly
A: fangs 3, repulsion field 1, thin metallic scales 1, see invisible, agile 1,
dopey 1, low mp 1, screaming 1, shaggy fur 1, electricity resistance,
unbreathing
0: Orb of Zot
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, golden, abyssal, gossamer
a: Bat Form, Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/bananaken/morgue-bananaken-20170222-073347.txt

Man, vampire has been the hardest for me to win with, though in retrospect going for maximizing pain brand damage made things harder than they needed to be because I sunk way too much experience into necromancy. On the other hand Kiku + high spellpower dispel undead made Crypt+Tomb almost trivial and that gave me considerable XP and loot. I ended up using statue form + death channel for most of Zot, but I had enough in earth + conjurations that I could quaff brilliance and iron shot could actually kill orbs of fire.

Orb run with batform was surprisingly powerful, it's a lot less scary to be a bat when you're level 27 and have high HP

# ? Feb 22, 2017 10:54

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Turtlicious posted:

Is there a way to play online with the offline client? I like a lot of the features on the offline client, but I also like playing with goons.

Nope. It'd be hacked and ruined in moments

# ? Feb 22, 2017 11:06

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

someone awful. posted:

It's entirely outside of the breadth/purview of what spells cover; honestly it sounds like you'd have more fun just playing Hep if you want a constant companion like that.

Let's just compromise and make the Hep companion a ghost dog.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:09

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Fitzy Fitz posted:

Let's just compromise and make the Hep companion a ghost dog.

Play a cyno and it will be.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:12

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

Out of curiosity, does cleave on axes still work with whirlwind, or should I look at long blades if I want to be a whirlytaur for the riposting?

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:41

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

If it worked with whirlwind it would be bonkers because whirlwind itself hits multiple enemies and each enemy you hit would proc a cleave. Unless I'm mistaken, though, lunge works with cleave, and you can whirlwind and lunge at the same time, meaning you can whirl a target and hit them in the same turn with a powered up cleave. I think axes and long blades are about equally good with council god, lunge replaces some of polearms utility, but I guess you can always use wall jump to create space for reaching attacks.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 15:16

weirdly chilly pussy: Oct 6, 2007

Somehow crawl always manages to feel fresh after a hiatus. Tried a frog dude for fun and got an easy 5-runer at first try! Then I rolled a DEFE who's so far found a whip(elec) on D1 and Vehumet on D2 :getin:

# ? Feb 22, 2017 15:48

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Sage Grimm posted:

Reminder that every single monster in your Line of Sight makes a check to notice you when it's their turn and asleep. All it takes is just one failure and the whole lung is awake and casting about.

Nice quickblade, though! And I would recommend next time downing a potion of haste before you're set upon by all those death cobs. And maybe train up Invocations more so you could use their ability to Shadow Form reliably and maybe get away alive.

I also think this the last three characters I've had reach Zot died there.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 16:26

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

Heithinn Grasida posted:

If it worked with whirlwind it would be bonkers because whirlwind itself hits multiple enemies and each enemy you hit would proc a cleave. Unless I'm mistaken, though, lunge works with cleave, and you can whirlwind and lunge at the same time, meaning you can whirl a target and hit them in the same turn with a powered up cleave. I think axes and long blades are about equally good with council god, lunge replaces some of polearms utility, but I guess you can always use wall jump to create space for reaching attacks.

I went with a sword because why not and oh man this is a fun new God. Rather than just tabbing through packs I'm leaping off walls and running around mobs just to proc whirl/leap. So much more fun than otabbing.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 16:44

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

3-wide hallways are the new 1-wide hallways.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 16:47

YoungSexualNorton: Aug 8, 2004; These are good for the children's brains.

Took a while to get a centaur arcane marksman off the ground but goddamn this one is on fire. Just managed to chaos brand a +8 longbow on D10, which I didn't even know could happen. I know there's an off chance I'm going to haste a dragon or something but so far this thing is devastating and also a lot of fun to use.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 17:10

Nanomashoes: Aug 18, 2012

You guys said eating purple was good but now I'm a kobold with 2 stacks of frail.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 17:54

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Eat more purple to fix yourself.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 18:05

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Nanomashoes posted:

You guys said eating purple was good but now I'm a kobold with 2 stacks of frail.

To purple! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems!

# ? Feb 22, 2017 18:29

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

Nanomashoes posted:

You guys said eating purple was good but now I'm a kobold with 2 stacks of frail.

Drink the purple then!

# ? Feb 22, 2017 19:12

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 01:59

Mortimer Knag: Nov 23, 2007

Been traveling a bit, catching back up on this thread now, glad to see SKULL.GIF is so far almost as good a dev as pf. Has anyone mentioned crabs lately? I still got like 30 pages to go but crabtalk has sadly died down?

Darth Windu posted:

Whoever recommended troll necro as a hybrid class can go fart on their own head, these apts are terrible wtf

The way you run a troll hybrid is an unarmed TrMo of Yred and it's also the best combo in the game

# ? Feb 22, 2017 19:14

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