willie_dee posted:

None of that looks real to me... the BJJ fighters are massively undersized and don't know how to strike, the TKD guy is too busy throwing stupid kicks from miles away.

I want to see that guy against someone with a blue belt in BJJ who can box, then I might be some what convinced.

CommonShore posted:

I've taught and helped design a few self-defense seminars for teenagers. I go with the fatherdog classic:

Situational Awareness > Deescallation > sprint > grappling+striking > grappling > striking

And fighting usually looks like stand up, clear clinch, create space, run away, in that order, while making shitloads of noise, which includes the note for teenage girls that often shrieking sounds like laughing because girls squeal like that when they're having fun, at least often enough that it can be ambiguous to a listener. The only strikes I teach are elbows and kicks to the junk.

Wheat Loaf posted:

So I've been going to BJJ for about a year now. It is hard to believe. I have been trying to keep up with my rolling but lately I'm running into a couple of consistent problems. The first is that I always seem to set myself up for armbars from virtually any position almost without fail, but that's obviously just something I have to keep working on.

The second is the question I'd like to ask the thread: when you're rolling with someone, what's the best way to initiate the roll? Usually when I'm rolling with someone else, we'd both start in combat base and try for a few grips, then the other guys always sort of bull into me and get me in a bad position. Evidently I need to rethink my approach. What are some good methods for starting off a roll?

LionArcher posted:

I'm not saying I'd not get hurt, (if it's a good MMA or BJJ guy I'm sure I would) but I'm the one walking out of that encounter.

As for the other points saying that it sounds like I was bad at my job for getting in all those encounter working security, here's the thing; a lot of it was an Irish pub where for the first two years there were a couple of bartenders that liked to over serve it's cliental, in a kind of funky area of Oregon where there's a lot of dudes who work out and drive around in their trucks and not much else. I"m honestly surprised that more fights didn't occurre.

KildarX posted:

A gun is also a stupid idea if you're being robbed by a guy with a gun, because unless he's an idiot he's gonna shoot you in the face if you start trying to draw, because he's probably caught you unaware in the first place.

edit: personally I feel the only time a gun for self-defense might be the correct option is if there is a home invader, and you're ok with shooting and killing someone for breaking into your house. None of that "I've got a gun" shenanigans,call the cops, ambush the dude, and cap him. Personally wouldn't do it because I don't feel like I could be ok with my self killing another dude, but that's probably the only situation outside of LEO or Military action where a gun might be a good option tactically and strategically.

edit 2: What you guys think? is there a good accessory for self defense. The issues I see is that if a weapon is lethal you have to be ok with killing a dude, it has to be easily usable if pressed in the worst situation, you have to be able to have a trainer or something you could practice with on another live human, and it can't be something whose efficacy goes down if you draw it after a fight begins.

Wheat Loaf posted:

The second is the question I'd like to ask the thread: when you're rolling with someone, what's the best way to initiate the roll? Usually when I'm rolling with someone else, we'd both start in combat base and try for a few grips, then the other guys always sort of bull into me and get me in a bad position. Evidently I need to rethink my approach. What are some good methods for starting off a roll?

Decades posted:

Right, I mean I've heard it broken down that way before. I guess, I get how that works in terms of relevance, that each notch down is less applicable and useful for a self defence situation than the previous. And it makes sense for people who train. For people who don't though train or run though, it effectively becomes

Situational Awareness > Deescallation > nope > going back in time and training for several years

Like, I think when most people think of self defense they imagine the plan as 1) try to deescalate 2) physically resist and free myself or briefly incapacitate with a groin strike or elbow 3) scene missing 4) safety

Either you cause substantial damage such that the person stays down, which takes being a martial artist, or you get a brief opportunity to outrun them, which takes being a runner. Among the people interested in learning self defense the audience is probably next to none from column A and not necessarily many from column B either.

Pryor on Fire posted:

You really don't need to be a runner, in 90% of self defense situations people would rather not look like a goddamn lunatic instead of chasing after a person sprinting all out. Anyone who grew up in the hood knows this. Just loving run, you're probably not getting chased unless someone has a grudge.

CommonShore posted:

I always initiate my rolls from butt scoot and start grip fighting.

CommonShore posted:

For the teenage girls class we did recently, our central message was you are worth defending - if you find yourself in a situation that makes you uncomfortable, to have the confidence to trust your instincts and get out.

Pryor on Fire posted:

Just loving run, you're probably not getting chased unless someone has a grudge.

Wheat Loaf posted:

That sounds a bit like one guy I sometimes roll with whose preferred starting position is sitting with his legs open slightly and feet close together with his elbows inside his knees. It's a pretty good defensive stance from what I can see, and I think it looks like it might be worth having a go trying out.

Mechafunkzilla posted:

That is extremely good.

Decades posted:

I guess I'm thinking of it too much in the worst case scenario of a large man determined to attack a small unathletic woman when what self defense really usually is, and rightfully so, "how to not participate in fights"

E: though then I'm not sure if groin strikes and poo poo have any place at all

Wangsbig posted:

it is incredibly effective against me actually, i am fantastically weak to 'gun'

02-6611-0142-1 posted:

boy are my arms tired posted:

I actually 'scored' against a green belt during randori today! We learned grip techniques (i don't remember the offical name, google says Kumi Kata?) and its something I'm fairly good at!

but then the green belt took off the training wheels and flipped me like twice but hey i'll take what i can get

CommonShore posted:

Kumikata, yes. Strange coincidence -that's what we did too!

boy are my arms tired posted:

it made a lot of sense to me; the focus was on grabbing fabric that wasn't sleeves or lapels and instead grabbing what you can (so, like armpit area). prior boxing experience kind of helped here, i was able to grab fabric a lot quicker and easier than most of the other white belts

im thinking about attending an upcoming competition as a spectator, but i was told that even white belts could take part if they wanted. is it common to just hop right in knowing only a few basic techniques?

Siivola posted:

It's been a long while since I wore that sweet skirt, but I watched the vs TKD vid and I find it pretty clearly aikido. The matwork in particular is very familiar. Tactically, I do think that's pretty much in line with what I learned: Keep a distance, wait for the opening, do a takedown, shoulder lock on the mat.

kimbo305 posted:

This guy clearly knows what he's doing in terms of range and timing, though his techniques only get him so far.
That first video mentions a correct application @1:17, but it ends up being a total sacrifice throw. The wrist lock to throw at 2:07 seems legit to me.
The trip takedown in the 2nd video works, but you see that in any number of arts. Not to mention the aikidoka has a pretty big size and strength advantage on his partners.

Siivola posted:

He seems to be looking to bait the BJJ guys into doing something that he can reverse, which I feel is correct from an aikido perspective. (I'd guess his stuff gets stuffed partly because he doesn't give the BJJ guys enough room to try attacks.) He kept walking forward and offering the grips he wanted to use, which might be slightly un-self-defense-y, but it's according to his gameplan so I like it. Again, I think there's room for a more proactive "get grips, invade personal space, throw" sort of approach in aikido, but on the other hand the vast majority of aikido practice starts from the assumption that the opponent obliges when you offer them a good grip.

CommonShore posted:

On my drive in to work the talk radio folks had a bit about tai chi.

Hilights - it provides muscular and joint exercise for people 65+ which is accessible, free, and gentle on the heart. It prevents the debilitating atrophic loss in muscle density which is common in retired people because of sedentary lifestyles. Quantitatively, persons 65+ who practice tai chi 3x per week suffer 61% fewer falls than the general population at that age, which is actually a pretty big deal.

CommonShore posted:

Yeah that was my sense, too. He initiated little offense, and anyone who has watched much MMA should know how hard it is to get something going on a fighter who is focused entirely on defending and surviving. On top of that, his defensive skills seemed pretty good - lots of preventing cancer instead of curing it.

This is also consistent with the Aikido tendency to say "well it's a defensive art "

KildarX posted:

That said, Aikido guy did demo some pretty sound technique.

KildarX posted:

To be fair he didn't have to initiate on those two because they appeared to not know crap about stand up wrestling. Note how both people "shoot" and by shoot I mean, bend over and run at the aikido dude and hope aikido dude falls over. Which props to Aikido dude for having the awareness to stuff it, but I would be more impressed if the BJJ dudes could complete it. That said, Aikido guy did demo some pretty sound technique.

willie_dee posted:

Is it sound technique though? Would it work against anyone half competent at actually fighting?

the JJ posted:

I worry about selection bias.

Anyway, I think it came up before in this thread w/r/t the awareness>de-escalation>running>screaming etc. debate but I'd argue that if tai chi is the thing that lets you find your zen and going to a bro-y hooah BJJ gym and getting super aggressive is going to tie your ego to wrassling skill, maybe the first is objectively better and the second is objectively detrimental, but that's not much to do with the sport so much as the philosophy going into it. Chill BJJ guys are chill, and probably better off than chill tai chi guys, but chill tai chi beats dumbass MMA.

e: In other words, try out your gyms and leave if you don't like the vibe.

KildarX posted:

I will say if BJJ does have one significant weakness is that most Gyms in my experience don't do any sort of stand up practice beyond maybe a few minutes here and there of demoing a single or a double, but they generally don't work it long or consistent enough to actually have a meaningful standup besides grips and pull guard.

Siivola posted:

It can be beneficial for stuff like posture, muscle control and grounding. There's a bunch of neat biomechanics behind tai chi push hands stuff, it's not based on pure magic.

I remember reading about a BJJ guy who tried tai chi and found it made his BJJ game a lot better? I might be just imagining things.

willie_dee posted:

Is it sound technique though? Would it work against anyone half competent at actually fighting?

manyak posted:

no

KildarX posted:

I will say if BJJ does have one significant weakness is that most Gyms in my experience don't do any sort of stand up practice beyond maybe a few minutes here and there of demoing a single or a double, but they generally don't work it long or consistent enough to actually have a meaningful standup besides grips and pull guard.

hi liter posted:

BJJ standup is kind of like Judo groundwork, overlooked because the sporting rules don't give it enough weight. Train in both if you can. Good Judo players do, and will gently caress you up on the ground in a tournament.

KildarX posted:

Doesn't it though? In most competition a Guard pull doesn't give you anything except guard at best, and at worst if done improperly causes a penalty. In most competition a take down is worth two points at worst and a lot more if you can take advantage a get a pass. If you want to game the system you'd hit a take down and stall while not looking like your stalling for three minutes.