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HorseRenoir posted:the american left is bad because their reaction to being told that there's no place for them in the two parties was to go "aww shucks, okay then" and go back home to jerk off. if the left is weak enough to be broken by some centrist shithead saying mean things about their ideas, that's on them There also hasn't been the systematic infiltration and destruction of leftist groups by law enforcement for the past 80 years or anything You ever notice how almost all of the big leftists in our history end up with bullets in them?
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Feb 24, 2017 15:06
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:funny how nobody in the dem establishment has an answer as to the what and how of replacing those jobs.
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Feb 24, 2017 15:08
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:And then what? This kind of mentality is what led us here. Yea, fossil fuels are killing the planet, but people have to make a living. You can't leave them to die. And you can't have a presidential candidate that says your jobs are gonna go away when he or she becomes president. Well we could start a tourism industry in WV since it was pretty, except they deleted all their mountains to get coal lol
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Feb 24, 2017 15:11
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Business Gorillas posted:There also hasn't been the systematic infiltration and destruction of leftist groups by law enforcement for the past 80 years or anything look no further than the assassination of fred hampton by the fbi for evidence of how our government deals with left-wing radicals http://thedollop.libsyn.com/214-black-panther-fred-hampton
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Feb 24, 2017 15:12
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Another spicy take: everyone older than 35 probably has vivid memories of being conditioned that communism/socialism is the great satan from the cold war
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Feb 24, 2017 15:15
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Grey Fox posted:Can't do it without access to quality education, so this is putting the cart before the horse. y'all remember when bio engineering was going to be the hot new in-demand job sector so everybody should get their bio engineering degrees now and get ahead of the game? funny how there were eleventeen hundred qualified applicants for every one opening in bioengineering. saying this as someone who got a quality education: a quality education don't guarantee poo poo
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Feb 24, 2017 15:16
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"you have to get a degree in order to live like a human being" i mean, that sounds classist as gently caress but okay
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Feb 24, 2017 15:18
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i remember when getting a degree was supposed to save you from slave wages. now i'm making a pittance each year while i have a masters degree
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Feb 24, 2017 15:23
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I mean we could have a mincome so that people could enjoy their lives and not have to slave away at pointless work, and then--- *murdered by the government*
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Feb 24, 2017 15:23
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It's okay there will be plenty of mining jobs on those 7 new planets we just found.
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Feb 24, 2017 15:24
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Business Gorillas posted:Another spicy take: everyone older than 35 probably has vivid memories of being conditioned that communism/socialism is the great satan from the cold war I'm 33 and I really only remember the Soviet Union as that dead country that our out of date textbooks referenced
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Feb 24, 2017 15:28
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don't get me wrong: i will welcome fully automated luxury gay space weed cornbread communism when it arrives and nobody has to dig ditches or sump out portajohns or flip burgers for a living because we'll have benevolent robots doing all that poo poo for us it still ain't here yet, and there's a hell of a lot of people out there who still want the pride of accomplishment of having done something fulfilling and useful and the sooner centrist democrats stop swallowing supply-side economic bullshit and insisting on mama-birding that bullshit to voters, i think you'll start to see some serious poo poo happen for the better
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Feb 24, 2017 15:29
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when did dems become supply-siders btw? i remember us mocking repubs for that poo poo, and then boom dems are deepthroating supply-sider dick
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Feb 24, 2017 15:32
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This New Republic piece on the DNC election thing is a real banger https://newrepublic.com/article/140847/case-tom-perez-makes-no-sense quote:And it’s not just Obama- and Clinton-ites that could see some power slip away with an Ellison-headed DNC. Paid DNC consultants also have a vested interest in maintaining the DNC status quo. Nomiki Konst, who has extensively covered the nuts and bolts of the DNC race, asked Perez how he felt about conflicts of interest within the committee—specifically, DNC members who also have contracts with the committee. Perez dodged the issue, advocating for a “big tent.” In contrast, in a forum last month, Ellison firmly stated, “We are battling the consultant-ocracy.”
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Feb 24, 2017 15:32
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Condiv posted:when did dems become supply-siders btw? i remember us mocking repubs for that poo poo, and then boom dems are deepthroating supply-sider dick somewhere around the time bill clinton took office, because holy poo poo look at all the money getting donated
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Feb 24, 2017 15:33
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:don't get me wrong: i will welcome fully automated luxury gay space weed cornbread communism when it arrives and nobody has to dig ditches or sump out portajohns or flip burgers for a living because we'll have benevolent robots doing all that poo poo for us For real. We need a vision of America that's better than what we have been given. We need to be like JFK during the space race.
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Feb 24, 2017 15:34
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like the goal of the government should be to better the lives of all its citizens through squashing inequality and ensuring an even distribution of wealth and resources. and governments should be looking for ways to integrate with each other in all respects. the nation-state, like the corporation, is inimical to human life on a global scale.
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Feb 24, 2017 15:42
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Condiv posted:i remember when getting a degree was supposed to save you from slave wages. now i'm making a pittance each year while i have a masters degree Not saying you went to a paper mill but gutting higher education funding has led to universities/colleges turning to sucking on the federal loan teat to make up for their lost funding which means they're turning their Masters and PHd programs into online paper mills and the market is being flooded with over-educated/under-experienced workers. I'm guessing the recession also led to this, since college graduates struggling to get jobs just went back to school.
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Feb 24, 2017 15:44
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:y'all remember when bio engineering was going to be the hot new in-demand job sector so everybody should get their bio engineering degrees now and get ahead of the game? of course it doesn't guarantee poo poo, but you can't build an economy if your population primarily consists of uneducated rubes
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Feb 24, 2017 15:46
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Serf posted:like the goal of the government should be to better the lives of all its citizens through squashing inequality and ensuring an even distribution of wealth and resources. and governments should be looking for ways to integrate with each other in all respects. the nation-state, like the corporation, is inimical to human life on a global scale. lol good one
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Feb 24, 2017 15:50
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a strong federal government is the only thing that can scale up in size to match the power that multi-billion dollar, multi national corporations both hold and hold to abuse. the fact that the republicans for the longest time have eroded and hamstrung the force that can keep them in check, and the only thing the party opposite has done is hem and haw and balk about the size of the cuts, never mind that the cuts are even in the realm of possibility. i fully understand how that can be pretty loving demoralizing for people who want to do something to change that
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Feb 24, 2017 15:54
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Business Gorillas posted:There also hasn't been the systematic infiltration and destruction of leftist groups by law enforcement for the past 80 years or anything and now all that effort has laid russian takeover at the nation's feet. 
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Feb 24, 2017 15:54
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though i guess j. edgar hitler would be very happy with the russians taking over now that they're fascist kleptocrats
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Feb 24, 2017 15:59
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if you want a positive vision of the future that is actually worth working towards it involves a unified democratic human state that is working towards post-scarcity
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Feb 24, 2017 16:00
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Grey Fox posted:No but I remember that poo poo for nursing and law schools
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Feb 24, 2017 16:08
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:a strong federal government is the only thing that can scale up in size to match the power that multi-billion dollar, multi national corporations both hold and hold to abuse. there's the core problem of competency, though take any complicated regulatory field, like clearing drugs for human consumption or aircraft type certification through the FAA or or or. to write that regulatory framework, you need to know the complex interactions of technical knowledge, corporate knowledge, regulatory knowledge, and how the three can interact and be manipulated. an extremely competent person will be able to name their salary from major industry players because of their knowledge of the process and how much a return that knowledge can provide. the government cannot offer anywhere near that amount in salary the current way to compensate is that you get the industries to heavily guide regulatory policy because the government simply does not have the capacity to do it from first principles. and when that happens, regulatory frameworks tend to massively favor the MNC in terms of competitive advantage, both directly through regulations that turn out to be specifically favorable and indirectly through greater market friction for non-MNCs it's a lovely solution, but there hasn't been a better solution suggested that isn't just "well just do Good Things and dont do Bad Things and no im not going to define either of those"
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Feb 24, 2017 16:09
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'strong federal government' would also include 'salary competitive with the private sector for a given level of technical expertise' though
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Feb 24, 2017 16:15
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the problem you're pointing out isn't one that has always existed, it's entirely a result of certain political parties replacing actual public service departments with outsourcing agreements, meaning that no one in house knows what the gently caress they're doing anymore. That's massively benefited the private sector, but gutted both the capability and power of the public sector that poo poo didn't happen by accident, it was done by people who knew what they were doing, who intentionally set out on a political program to weaken government control, for both ideological reasons, and out of self-interest. As a result, the public good suffered.
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Feb 24, 2017 16:18
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Grey Fox posted:No but I remember that poo poo for nursing and law schools so you're saying that people should trade the sure thing that they know has ensured they barely kept their head above water for the mystery box that jay stewart is bringing down on a tray, even though there's clearly a label on the box that says "there's a good chance you'll end up worse" and you're calling them rubes because they want to stick with the devil they know? nah -- come back with a better idea and do a job of selling them on it
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Feb 24, 2017 16:22
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rudatron posted:'strong federal government' would also include 'salary competitive with the private sector for a given level of technical expertise' though there's almost no such thing. when boeing scored the KC-X contract, how much was that contract worth, knowing it was a foot in the door for -Y and -Z? how much would they be willing to pay their procurement leads to ensure they get it, in a favorable contract shape? rudatron posted:that poo poo didn't happen by accident it's not at all a matter of accident, it's just a natural consequence of how much value can be derived from one or two skilled people and the capacity of the private versus the public sector to spend to achieve that advantage. it's become worse recently only because the derived value of the advantage has massively ballooned, and that's what's gutted the public sector
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Feb 24, 2017 16:25
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it's amazing to me that the dems know the poor and middle class in this country is going through employment related crises, and refuse to do anything to help other than say "find better jobs". like hillary intentionally shot down programs she could've spun as job retraining programs for coal workers (free university). why the gently caress would you do this if you gave a poo poo?
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Feb 24, 2017 16:29
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rudatron posted:
One that always stuck with me was a recruiter that said she'd have more luck getting a job for someone with a master's degree in an irrelevant field than someone with a post-undergrad certificate in a RELEVANT field because "a full master's degree indicates a stronger will to see something through to the end." No basis in skills or on-the-job experience, in her eyes. Just the piece of paper. The cost for a full master's degree compared to a certificate program is pretty drat significant. American education is hosed six ways to Sunday, and employers aren't doing a drat thing to help. They're more interested in contracting with schools and developing customized curricula to teach their EXISTING employees specialized skills that benefit the company as much as possible.
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Feb 24, 2017 16:29
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Business Gorillas posted:Another spicy take: everyone older than 35 probably has vivid memories of being conditioned that communism/socialism is the great satan from the cold war we certainly appreciate superman iv: the quest for peace on a deeper level than our younger brethren
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Feb 24, 2017 16:30
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:so you're saying that people should trade the sure thing that they know has
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Feb 24, 2017 16:31
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"this dude knows how to take apart and rebuild a gm 4L80E transmission including how to diagnose what's going wrong with it by the sound it makes while driving and how it feels on the road" "yeah, but can he reset a password On some executive's email?" "probably not" "pfheh sounds like just another uneducated rube"
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Feb 24, 2017 16:33
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:"this dude knows how to take apart and rebuild a gm 4L80E transmission including how to diagnose what's going wrong with it by the sound it makes while driving and how it feels on the road"
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Feb 24, 2017 16:33
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like i am legitimately interested in how, in the year of our lord two thousand and seventeen, the people who in one breath decry the defunding of pbs will proceede in the very next breath write off whole sectors of geographic areas in the face of a fixture of pbs saying that everybody has a thing that makes them special and they do their best by just being themselves
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Feb 24, 2017 16:37
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:like i am legitimately interested in how, in the year of our lord two thousand and seventeen, the people who in one breath decry the defunding of pbs will proceede in the very next breath write off whole sectors of geographic areas in the face of a fixture of pbs saying that everybody has a thing that makes them special and they do their best by just being themselves I have more sympathy for whales being hunted than whales that keep beaching themselves.
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Feb 24, 2017 16:38
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:like i am legitimately interested in how, in the year of our lord two thousand and seventeen, the people who in one breath decry the defunding of pbs will proceede in the very next breath write off whole sectors of geographic areas in the face of a fixture of pbs saying that everybody has a thing that makes them special and they do their best by just being themselves they just need to move to new york city zegermans posted:I have more sympathy for whales being hunted than whales that keep beaching themselves. yeah, they're idiots. it's not like moving is expensive, nor that CoL in cities is significantly higher in cities. wish these beached whales would just pull themselves up by their bootstraps
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Feb 24, 2017 16:40
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Grey Fox posted:...where did he get this education? by working on them? they're an extraordinarily commm transmission
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Feb 24, 2017 16:40
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