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Guys guys guys... Games Chat: March of the Black Queen
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Feb 24, 2017 20:14
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| # ? May 22, 2024 00:05 |
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Games Chat: Corn & Porn Together At Last
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Feb 24, 2017 20:14
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Harrow posted:Oh poo poo, corn vs corn
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Feb 24, 2017 20:15
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Jay Rust posted:Sex and sexiness in games is always 100% creepy, that's my opinion of the thing I disagree. If it makes you uncomfortable then that's understandable because there has always been this idea that a video game being designed by a real life human means that anything sexy is thereby exploitative (which I disagree with as well). But it is possible to portray sex appeal in a not-creepy way in video games. I would say that it's difficult, to the point where in a lot of cases it's really not even worth trying because people are gonna call it creepy whether it is or not. But it's possible for sure, same as any other visual medium.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:15
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fridge corn posted:Yes, but at the same time catering to them more heavily than detracting. Go look at the Nier: Automata board on gamefaqs and see if anything stands out to you. Yes, and? At some point a game is going to appeal to the lovely people if it intends to or not. Witcher 3 did too, once again to use an example of a game you called good. Beyond a certain point, unless you're doing the "it's okay if I like it" thing, you're going to come into conflict between a game doing something you like and a game doing something you dislike. The solution is to recognize something's flaws, missteps or just what it does that you dislike, and acknowledge them as part of the product, which is what most people are doing. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 20:24
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exquisite tea posted:It kind of blows my mind that Overwatch porn became like the most searched-for thing on the internet well in advance of the actual game being released. Their character designers knew what they were doing.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:25
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For an example of good sex appeal in video games look toward Tess in The Last of Us. Her physical appearance is subdued, as it should be because it's a zombie apocalypse, but the obvious chemistry she has with Joel and the confidence she demonstrates while you're pallin' around with her makes her attractive. It's intentional, and it's not there just to make you say "I wanna bone down on this character". The Last of Us is not that kind of story. It's done not just to characterize her, but to endear her better to the player. It gives her depth that she otherwise would be lacking. The idea of sex appeal in a video game doesn't have to mean "this character gets naked".
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Feb 24, 2017 20:33
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Corn and corn alone day
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Feb 24, 2017 20:38
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Yeah, thinking about it seriously, sexiness in games does make me uncomfortable, and I'm still unsure if that's a problem with me or a problem with general gaming culture. Hopefully the former I guess. I don't want to be even vaguely titillated while I'm cutting up fools and dodging fireballs, but it seems like the default gamer (or my imagined default gamer) does and it's quite frustrating. To me, stuff like jiggle physics and skimpy clothing is meant to appeal to the inner adolescent inside all of us and that's not something I'm interested in. And that kind of stuff seems to be in every other video game. When you say "sex appeal... doesn't have to mean 'this character gets naked'", I agree completely but it's very rare and rarely commented upon.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:39
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Jay Rust posted:Yeah, thinking about it seriously, sexiness in games does make me uncomfortable, and I'm still unsure if that's a problem with me or a problem with general gaming culture. Hopefully the former I guess. You're right, and hopefully it does appear more in the future as games like The Last of Us, Uncharted 4 etc present characters who are sexy at the same time as interesting, to show other developers that it is definitely possible to pull off.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:40
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Jay Rust posted:To me, stuff like jiggle physics and skimpy clothing is meant to appeal to the inner adolescent inside all of us and that's not something I'm interested inn. As opposed to cutting up fools and dodging fireballs? Video games in general are designed to appeal to the inner adolescent inside of all of us. That's not a terrible thing but it does mean that it isn't just appealing to one part of it. Not everyone has the same adolescent desires but there is a reason it keeps showing up. Obviously that isn't universal and you can have games without one or the other but there's a reason that something like God of War includes bonin' goddesses right alongside tearing people's eyes out.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:43
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In Training posted:I played the demo and I don't even understand the fixation people have drummed up around 2B. Compared to bayonetta there's nothing gratuitous, and the poo poo people bring up is positioning the camera themselves so they can look at her rear end, which is on the player Same. Im like "DID YOU SEE DAT ROBAT BLOW UP HOLY CRAP" when i guess i shoulda been like "oh lemme stand up against this wall and pan around until i can find that b hole"
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Feb 24, 2017 20:46
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ImpAtom posted:As opposed to cutting up fools and dodging fireballs? I think there's an extra layer of skeeziness to overt sexualization in video games because you then have to imagine the motivations and ethos of the people responsible for writing it. Shooting fireballs is generically cool in way that doesn't feel voyeuristic or exploitative of anything.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:48
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I've never considered "cutting up fools and dodging fireballs" as something adolescent, but yeah it kinda is, isn't it. Everything bad about video games happened because of anime, and everything good about video games happened because of anime.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:51
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video games are in fact, toys for children
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Feb 24, 2017 20:51
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Cowcaster posted:video games are in fact, toys for children Childhood ends at 34
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Feb 24, 2017 20:53
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exquisite tea posted:I think there's an extra layer of skeeziness to overt sexualization in video games because you then have to imagine the motivations and ethos of the people responsible for writing it. Shooting fireballs is generically cool in way that doesn't feel voyeuristic or exploitative of anything. I'm not fond of it myself but I don't think it's quite that simple. Shooting fireballs isn't but to go back to God of War there's a certain level of try-hard violence that has the same effect. (And it isn't the same for everyone.) And honestly even non try-hard violence has the same effective, though sometimes instead of skeeziness it can feel ridiculous or stupid as well. It depends. Something like Mortal Kombat X isn't really meaningfully less skeevy, it's just in a different direction of sheer excessive goresplosions. I suppose it doesn't bother me much in that I've reached the point where I can go "yes, this is pretty childish, but I don't define my life by it and play it for fun. I wish it was better but oh well." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 20:54
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Bunch of ninnies in this thread. If I turn on a game and don't achieve a half-mast erection within the first 20 minutes the game's a dud. I should never be more than 10 button presses away from an upskirt shot, any time a character is introduced it should focus on their rear end and cleavage first (and if it's a boy ew get out of my game go find some yuri junk to gross up dude), and all movement and combat sound effects should sound ripped from a heavily pixelated porn. I want special scenes of each character with their clothing damaged and with tears in their eyes. I want to pay $10 for swimsuit costumes and I want to spend quality time moving the camera in a way that makes the digital character uncomfortable. I want games with a diverse cast of characters who are all between 18 and 35, white with huge knockers. I'm okay with characters looking younger so long as they are a demon or a witch or something and actually much older, but I will always prefer a character who bends over a lot and wears revealing clothing but isn't bothered by it. I want my games to have mandatory bath scenes and for the artists to challenge themselves by censoring the characters with as few soapy suds and possible. I want mini games where I and touch and poke my characters anywhere I want and for however long I want, and I want to be called "teacher" or "big brother" while I do this. I want a game where I can never be sure where the official art ends and the fan made porn begins. Fortunately for me, I have no shortage of games that cater to my special tastes.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:54
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People having a meaningful discussion?! Well I'd better put a stop to that *revs up keyboard typing fingers* edit ImpAtom posted:I'm not fond of it myself but I don't think it's quite that simple. Shooting fireballs isn't but to go back to God of War there's a certain level of try-hard violence that has the same effect. (And it isn't the same for everyone.) And honestly even non try-hard violence has the same effective, though sometimes instead of skeeziness it can feel ridiculous or stupid as well. It depends. Something like Mortal Kombat X isn't really meaningfully less skeevy, it's just in a different direction of sheer excessive goresplosions. I think there's a case to be made for the supposed skeeviness of the developers not mattering as much as people credit it for. Metal Gear Solid 5 is still a fantastic game even with Quiet's boobs/butt. I would posit that it's something to be disappointed in, not offended about, but tbh I think that's splitting hairs.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:56
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not fond of it myself but I don't think it's quite that simple. Shooting fireballs isn't but to go back to God of War there's a certain level of try-hard violence that has the same effect. (And it isn't the same for everyone.) And honestly even non try-hard violence has the same effective, though sometimes instead of skeeziness it can feel ridiculous or stupid as well. It depends. Something like Mortal Kombat X isn't really meaningfully less skeevy, it's just in a different direction of sheer excessive goresplosions. For what it's worth I find the hyperviolence displayed in God of War to be really distasteful as well, although MKX is so over the top that it crosses some kind of threshold for me and just becomes silly.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:56
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Video game sexualization is hard to unpack because there's obviously nothing wrong with having sexuality in your game, and there's even nothing wrong with having blatant adolescent titillation in your game, but there are tons of wider trends and specific ways in which sexuality is used in games that makes even something as mundane as a woman with slightly larger than average boobs and a revealing decollete (something I can see pretty much any day of summer when walking around town) come with tons of implications that can make the player uncomfortable. When you see a pair of tits in a video games, you're reminded of things like how few women are the leads in game development, or the inherent misogyny some people show to female gamers, etc. And it wouldn't be unfair to say that more often than not, sexuality in video games is used in a very one-sided and unhealthy way, where women are sexualized as heck but men absolutely aren't, and sexy women are treated as 'rewards' for a player that's assumed to be male, instead of feeling at all like characters who control their own sexuality. And there's a ton of doubletalk and outright lies in press releases and interviews to dance around this fact when developers are directly asked about it, which just makes you, the player, feel even worse about the sexuality in games because they won't even own up to it. There's also the issue that context doesn't seem to matter to some devs. They'll put a huge titted bat in a game supposedly meant for children, right along male characters with zero secondary sexual characteristics. I don't begrudge people who want big boobs flopping around in games they play, but I do begrudge those who say we shouldn't criticize or that this is "just how games are". Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 20:56
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Real hurthling! posted:Childhood ends at 34 gently caress my life.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:00
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Lurdiak posted:Video game sexualization is hard to unpack because there's obviously nothing wrong with having sexuality in your game, and there's even nothing wrong with having blatant adolescent titillation in your game, but there are tons of wider trends and specific ways in which sexuality is used in games that makes even something as mundane as a woman with slightly larger than average boobs and a revealing decollete (something I can see pretty much any day of summer when walking around town) come with tons of implications that can make the player uncomfortable. When you see a pair of tits in a video games, you're reminded of things like how few women are the leads in game development, or the inherent misogyny some people show to female gamers, etc. And it wouldn't be unfair to say that more often than not, sexuality in video games is used in a very one-sided and unhealthy way, where women are sexualized as heck but men absolutely aren't, and sexy women are treated as 'rewards' for a player that's assumed to be male, instead of feeling at all like characters who control their own sexuality. And there's a ton of doubletalk and outright lies in press releases and interviews to dance around this fact when developers are directly asked about it, which just makes you, the player, feel even worse about the sexuality in games because they won't even own up to it. You're reminded of those things because you and society at large have associated them together. The video games (or rather their developers) established the trends but the only way to move away from it is to disassociate those feelings so that more people are willing to try to break them.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:00
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exquisite tea posted:For what it's worth I find the hyperviolence displayed in God of War to be really distasteful as well, although MKX is so over the top that it crosses some kind of threshold for me and just becomes silly. Things like Mortal Kombat hyperviolence or the "watch this dude get wrecked" animations in Sniper Elite definitely cross over from gross to silly, which is definitely the point and that's cool. I'm with you in that I could never really get behind God of War's whole deal. Lurdiak posted:I don't begrudge people who want big boobs flopping around in games they play, but I do begrudge those who say we shouldn't criticize or that this is "just how games are". For what it's worth, too, I think Nier: Automata is pretty mild in the grand scheme of oversexualized video game stuff. I mean, maybe that's more of an indictment of the medium than anything. But 2B's outfit is definitely sexier than it needs to be and clearly geared for upskirt shots; at the same time, 2B as a character (as far as I can tell) isn't really sexualized beyond that. She's a sexless android who presents as female, just like 9S is a sexless android who presents as male, along with Adam and Eve (one of whom shows up totally nude and sans genitalia in his first appearance just to drive home how not sexual they are). You're right that weird adolescent takes on sexual titillation are worth criticizing as a trend in the medium, for sure. I just get annoyed when people treat something like 2B's outfit like it should be a dealbreaker for any reasonable person and if it isn't, that person is clearly a creep (which I know you definitely didn't do, just in reference to my other posts on this topic).
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Feb 24, 2017 21:03
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CJacobs posted:You're reminded of those things because you and society at large have associated them together. The video games (or rather their developers) established the trends but the only way to move away from it is to disassociate those feelings so that more people are willing to try to break them. The way to move the conversation forward is to acknowledge games that handle sexuality and relationships maturely and call out the creepy stuff. Everybody agrees with this in the abstract but get uncomfortable when the games they like exhibit some distasteful tendencies themselves.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:03
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You are now reminded of Xcom's snake titties
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Feb 24, 2017 21:06
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There's some, I think, some degree of people applying pretty harsh criticism to games that attempt to handle emotional matters in any way. A lot of games that do nothing but involve characters talking for example juts get labeled "dating simulator' where any emotional interaction between people gets shoved into the same box. Obviously video games are not 100% replicating real conversation but "I'm worried about you and we need to talk" gets put in the same box as "Oh Shepard-sama please tell me about your awesome cock."
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Feb 24, 2017 21:06
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curious as to if there's a mod to add silk stockings and a negligee to the doom 2016 marine not instead of the praetor suit just stretched over the top of it
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Feb 24, 2017 21:06
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Cowcaster posted:curious as to if there's a mod to add silk stockings and a negligee to the doom 2016 marine Don't google hdoom.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:07
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exquisite tea posted:The way to move the conversation forward is to acknowledge games that handle sexuality and relationships maturely and call out the creepy stuff. Everybody agrees with this in the abstract but get uncomfortable when the games they like exhibit some distasteful tendencies themselves. imo there's nothing wrong with defending something you like. If you're wrong to defend it then that's a separate issue, but I don't think you should hold it against people to be uncomfortable when something they enjoy (or haven't really thought about) is put into question. I disagree that people refusing to accept change is keeping change from happening. See games like Life is Strange and its exploration of sexuality which was very successful not just in the nuance behind it in the game itself, but also its reception and the acknowledgement of it, when maybe 5-10 years ago it definitely wouldn't have been. Games like that are becoming more common because it's not nearly as hard-won of a fight as people think it is based on, again, their preconception that that kind of stuff always comes with the implications Lurdiak listed. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 21:10
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Harrow posted:For what it's worth, too, I think Nier: Automata is pretty mild in the grand scheme of oversexualized video game stuff. I mean, maybe that's more of an indictment of the medium than anything. But 2B's outfit is definitely sexier than it needs to be and clearly geared for upskirt shots; at the same time, 2B as a character (as far as I can tell) isn't really sexualized beyond that. She's a sexless android who presents as female, just like 9S is a sexless android who presents as male, along with Adam and Eve (one of whom shows up totally nude and sans genitalia in his first appearance just to drive home how not sexual they are). I'm really curious what the ingame reasoning for her outfit is, considering how the only people on the planet are other robots. Are the humans on the moon who designed her supposed to be a stand in for the skeevy audience?
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Feb 24, 2017 21:11
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tap my mountain posted:I'm really curious what the ingame reasoning for her outfit is, considering how the only people on the planet in that game are other robots. Are the humans on the moon who designed her supposed to be a stand in for the skeevy audience? If I had to guess, there's no in-game reason given at all and the reason is therefore just "anime." I haven't played it yet, though, so maybe there is.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:11
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tap my mountain posted:I'm really curious what the ingame reasoning for her outfit is, considering how the only people on the planet are other robots. Does there have to be one?
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Feb 24, 2017 21:12
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Healbot posted:gently caress my life. From a games marketing stand point the people that matter are 18-34. You can still be young at heart!
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Feb 24, 2017 21:13
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She not real guys.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:13
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Real hurthling! posted:She not real guys. Please don't speak of my wife that way...
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Feb 24, 2017 21:14
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Real hurthling! posted:From a games marketing stand point the people that matter are 18-34. You can still be young at heart! They do notice the audience is aging, hence the sudden surge of games about being a dad.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:15
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Phantasium posted:Don't google hdoom. No, do. 
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Feb 24, 2017 21:16
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Sigh
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Feb 24, 2017 21:16
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| # ? May 22, 2024 00:05 |
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CJacobs posted:imo there's nothing wrong with defending something you like. If you're wrong to defend it then that's a separate issue, but I don't think you should hold it against people to be uncomfortable when something they enjoy (or haven't really thought about) is put into question. I disagree that people refusing to accept change is keeping change from happening. See games like Life is Strange and its exploration of sexuality which was very successful not just in the nuance behind it in the game itself, but also its reception and the acknowledgement of it, when maybe 5-10 years ago it definitely wouldn't have been. It's worth mentioning that the same-sex relationship at the heart of Life is Strange almost didn't happen. Dontnod pitched the project to several publishers and Square-Enix was the only one who didn't want them to switch Max's gender.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:17
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