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XyrlocShammypants posted:No one expected bush Obama or trump four years before the election. No one will predict the next winner 4 years out this time. I guess you completely forgot about the 2004 convention then.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:59
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:The kind of safe spaces colleges bring foster the same kind of ignorance that is used by racists to reinforce their world views. Instead of engaging in greater forum, we have become increasingly isolated communities whose sole purpose is to entertain niche socioeconomic views that otherwise serve no basis on reality. Do you... actually know what a 'safe space' is?
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Feb 27, 2017 14:00
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It's also just a little bit funny that the bernie supporters are really angry that Keith's election wasn't a coronation.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:04
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Lightning Knight posted:Are you trying to say I'm part of the wealthy elite? Because lol. I am not seeing this nuanced view that you are portraying yourself as having. All I see is “poor rural voters don’t matter”. Let me rephrase political correctness in a different context: Would you rather have these people have their racist views out in the open or would you prefer it if they kept it in their pockets to be used only when elections come around? Shaming people doesn’t change their ways. Showing that both the poor whites and urban minorities are both getting turbo hosed by the rich is a good first step to building better race relations in this country. This thread is already showing that, moving forward, we’re going to have problems disguising which Trump voters are racist and which aren’t. That includes at the very least ending economic segregation where poor black people grow up in different neighborhoods and different neighborhoods than whites. This is not even a controversial topic; John Oliver was right to say that the North East, the bastion of liberalism, is way more racist than people make it out to be. Brainiac Five posted:I see we're at the part of the Bernie or Bust cycle where they start having Khmer Rouge fantasies of destroying universities and sending urban residents to the killing fields. It’s not making people less racist and it never will, not when you have white enclave universities that talk about race without a single black person present. People call out Bernie for being weak against BLM, but he did the right thing and let them give their voice on stage. Tesseraction posted:Do you... actually know what a 'safe space' is? A place where people reinforce their political beliefs, not challenge them. Dead Cosmonaut fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 14:05
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No really, do you know what a college campus safe space is?
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Feb 27, 2017 14:08
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Pretending racism is just a phenomenon ejaculated in the dyed-hair skulls of the contemptible university graduate by the evil intellectuals benefits antiracism not one bit.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:09
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:A place where people reinforce their political beliefs, not challenge them. I do not think you know what a college campus safe space is, and have instead read what some idiot right-winger derisively called it. Can you please explain how often one of those 'safe spaces' opens up and what the intention of the discussion is?
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Feb 27, 2017 14:13
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I am not seeing this nuanced view that you are portraying yourself as having. All I see is “poor rural voters don’t matter”. What a peculiar assertion. If by "rural" people, you mean blue collar working class people in the Rust Belt, most of us live in small to mid sized cities that were formerly industrial towns, not in truly rural areas. If you mean people way out in the sticks, they matter and there's plenty of issues we could campaign on, such as better road and phone/internet access or a focus on addiction clinics for the opiate epidemic. It really doesn't matter if they're publicly or privately racist. We don't have to and shouldn't send a bunch of college activists into white working class towns and try to sell them on the virtues of BLM, we sell them on the virtues of infrastructure spending and union organization. Those that are capable of being convinced will come along. What we don't do is remove the minority rights planks from the platform or stop advancing those issues in legislatures whenever possible, and these two things are not mutually exclusive. People who say and do lovely, discriminatory things should always be pushed back against, however. I honestly can't believe you could with a straight face say bash the fash and then claim that shaming racists is bad. These seem like incompatible ideas to me. Your lecturing on the racism of the liberal northeast is also frankly strange, I never claimed that racism didn't exist among liberals and this isn't some great revelation that liberal white people are also still racist. Safe spaces are not in practice about politics bro, they're for sexual assault victims, PTSD survivors, etc. You're misrepresenting reality in a way that conveniently fits right wing messaging.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:22
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The idea that class identity is inherently stronger than racial identity is some primo "antiracism is a bourgeois affectation" poo poo, which is a large part of why multiracial communist and anarchist organizations whitened heavily in the first half of the twentieth century.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:25
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Tesseraction posted:I do not think you know what a college campus safe space is, and have instead read what some idiot right-winger derisively called it. There is no discussion. The people who are there do it to feel good about themselves. The people who don’t learn internalize their racist views and run off to their micro-communities of hate on the internet such as /pol/. I don’t want people, especially the black community particular, to wait for college campuses to magically make white people less racist. The fact that universities such as Stanford are championing this while having some median income of a family for one of their alumni being >$150,000/year is absolutely disgusting.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:25
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is no discussion. The people who are there do it to feel good about themselves. The people who don’t learn internalize their racist views and run off to their micro-communities of hate on the internet such as /pol/. I don’t want people, especially the black community particular, to wait for college campuses to magically make white people less racist. Okay, so dissenting views will never be considered in your ideal socialist society. drat, even Stalin and Pol Pot listened to people sometimes. You're the truest ultra there ever was! 
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Feb 27, 2017 14:27
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Brainiac Five posted:The idea that class identity is inherently stronger than racial identity is some primo "antiracism is a bourgeois affectation" poo poo, which is a large part of why multiracial communist and anarchist organizations whitened heavily in the first half of the twentieth century. Unless you destroy the enclaves in suburbia and the elite university system that wealthy use to segregate their dumb white rear end kids from ever talking to a black person, racism is here to stay. Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, and pretty much all the elite universities in the moment are breeding future scum.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:35
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The Ivies in particular are designed from the ground up to churn out the unideological technocrats who manage our bureaucracies.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:49
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is no discussion. The people who are there do it to feel good about themselves. The people who don’t learn internalize their racist views and run off to their micro-communities of hate on the internet such as /pol/. I don’t want people, especially the black community particular, to wait for college campuses to magically make white people less racist. So the answer is no, you do not know what a 'safe space' on a college campus is, and have just chosen to regurgitate what white nationalists and rape apologists brazenly claim that they are. A safe space is a merely a session, usually held once a month, where there is an agreement as to a certain minimum level of understanding on a topic. For sexual assault victims it's that what they were wearing has nothing to do with it, for ethnic minorities, it's that they do not actually need to just 'lighten up' because it was just a joke. These are not daily indoctrination sessions, it is an occasional instance where you don't have to worry about explaining to Whiteness J. Duncington that rape jokes aren't particularly funny to sexual assault victims. Outside of those sessions the same people will hold more open meetings, often much more regularly, with outreach in mind. They may take safe sessions as a good place to discuss outreach methods, but they are not, themselves, an outreach or 'antithesis' of it as you are claiming. You are parroting a delusional fantasy from the White Dudebro Safe Space.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:59
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Brainiac Five posted:Okay, so dissenting views will never be considered in your ideal socialist society. drat, even Stalin and Pol Pot listened to people sometimes. You're the truest ultra there ever was! There is a lot to be learned from the breakdown in ethnic relations in the Balkans after Tito died. Lightning Knight posted:What a peculiar assertion. If by "rural" people, you mean blue collar working class people in the Rust Belt, most of us live in small to mid sized cities that were formerly industrial towns, not in truly rural areas. If you mean people way out in the sticks, they matter and there's plenty of issues we could campaign on, such as better road and phone/internet access or a focus on addiction clinics for the opiate epidemic. Here is a better one: The elite in this country have been loving you. Use Donald Trump’s own language against him. Call him an enemy of the working class. Call the whole cabal of elite in this country who wrote actually the trade deals, not our politicians, the enemy of America. I hope the next person on the Democrat ticket either comes from the Midwest or Rust Belt, without the stink of Washington all over him. That person would win. Lightning Knight posted:It really doesn't matter if they're publicly or privately racist. We don't have to and shouldn't send a bunch of college activists into white working class towns and try to sell them on the virtues of BLM, we sell them on the virtues of infrastructure spending and union organization. Those that are capable of being convinced will come along. What we don't do is remove the minority rights planks from the platform or stop advancing those issues in legislatures whenever possible, and these two things are not mutually exclusive. People who say and do lovely, discriminatory things should always be pushed back against, however. I think it does, it makes this next part much easier. Lightning Knight posted:I honestly can't believe you could with a straight face say bash the fash and then claim that shaming racists is bad. These seem like incompatible ideas to me. I honestly can’t believe you’re championing identity politics and political correctness while going at a good chunk of the population with a blunt instrument. Lightning Knight posted:Your lecturing on the racism of the liberal northeast is also frankly strange, I never claimed that racism didn't exist among liberals and this isn't some great revelation that liberal white people are also still racist. And our universities are responsible for that. Lightning Knight posted:Safe spaces are not in practice about politics bro, they're for sexual assault victims, PTSD survivors, etc. You're misrepresenting reality in a way that conveniently fits right wing messaging. Nobody who subtly believes in destiny of demographics should be peddling horseshit on what is and isn’t realistic. Tesseraction posted:So the answer is no, you do not know what a 'safe space' on a college campus is, and have just chosen to regurgitate what white nationalists and rape apologists brazenly claim that they are. There is no indoctrination going on. There is just a vague notion that is equivalent to social progress. This is will always be wrong without a complete totality of ideological understanding to support it. But thanks for putting words in my mouth. Dead Cosmonaut fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 15:05
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is a lot to be learned from the breakdown in ethnic relations in the Balkans after Tito died. gently caress you. I'm sick and tired of Americans dragging us into their slapfights with a "well, clearly, this is why..." Well, back to lurking/possible probation for me I guess.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:13
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is no indoctrination going on. There is just a vague notion that is equivalent to social progress. This is will always be wrong without a complete totality of ideological understanding to support it. But thanks for putting words in my mouth. And now it appears you're just ignoring the majority of my post in order to complain that I used a word you didn't specifically say, but strongly implied. Are you sure you aren't looking for one of your imagined safe spaces for yourself?
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Feb 27, 2017 15:15
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The Balkans is exactly where America is headed under Trump and Perez
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Feb 27, 2017 15:17
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Tesseraction posted:And now it appears you're just ignoring the majority of my post in order to complain that I used a word you didn't specifically say, but strongly implied. Are you sure you aren't looking for one of your imagined safe spaces for yourself? I don’t imagine universities as being the bastion of progress, for starters. The thing I absolutely fear the most is the young white community getting indoctrinated by right wing ideology while the left remains ill equipped to deal with it. Getting older isn’t going to make their political views any better either. Everything we have been doing to educate people on why being a reactionary shitbag has been wrong.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:21
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is a lot to be learned from the breakdown in ethnic relations in the Balkans after Tito died. Ahahahah, yeah get hosed.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:22
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my dad posted:gently caress you. I'm sick and tired of Americans dragging us into their slapfights with a "well, clearly, this is why..." Well you can talk poo poo about us after the same thing happens here. People are going to die before Trump gets out.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:29
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I don’t imagine universities as being the bastion of progress, for starters. The thing I absolutely fear the most is the young white community getting indoctrinated by right wing ideology while the left remains ill equipped to deal with it. Getting older isn’t going to make their political views any better either. Everything we have been doing to educate people on why being a reactionary shitbag has been wrong. Clearly. Dead Cosmonaut posted:Well you can talk poo poo about us after the same thing happens here. People are going to die before Trump gets out. His key point if you don't understand what happened in 80s-90s Yugoslavia, and if anything take the wrong lesson from the conflict.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:33
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Frankly, we need to destroy any environment where people can imagine themselves free of oppression, because we're obsessed with blowing poo poo up and doing unspecified horrible things to college professors.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:34
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Brainiac Five posted:Frankly, we need to destroy any environment where people can imagine themselves free of oppression, because we're obsessed with blowing poo poo up and doing unspecified horrible things to college professors. It’s a good start for everyone to believe that the institutions are not there to protect them in any way, going forward. Nobody is safe. Not in Trump’s America.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:38
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Dead Cosmonaut, you gotta chill out and take some time to reflect on what people are telling you.Dead Cosmonaut posted:The fact that universities such as Stanford are championing this while having some median income of a family for one of their alumni being >$150,000/year is absolutely disgusting. I want to pick at this in particular. These household incomes still aren't even part of the 1% in many areas of America. (Obviously in the Rust Belt or something it's way up there.) People have a tendency to think of others who make 2x to 5x what they do as Very Wealthy, because it's really really loving difficult for the majority of people to wrap their heads around just how loving much money the people who are loving us are actually earning. They're out of sight and they're out of mind, and no one can really conceive of just how completely alien and different their lives and realities are from our 9-5-and-come-home existences. Now, I'm not saying that the people whose households are bringing in low six digits a year aren't well-off. They are! But they still have to earn a living for the most part, and they have little power to really gently caress with society (unless they unite) compared to the people who are worth millions or billions of dollars.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:38
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:It’s a good start for everyone to believe that the institutions are not there to protect them in any way, going forward. Nobody is safe. Not in Trump’s America. "It's a good start," Dead Cosmonaut says as the rape survivor slits her own wrist after 44 straight hours of being told she deserved it by the Bern Guards. "People need to understand institutions won't protect them."
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Feb 27, 2017 15:41
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:It’s a good start for everyone to believe that the institutions are not there to protect them in any way, going forward. Nobody is safe. Not in Trump’s America. No, things should not have to be awful for everyone. I have no idea why you think that things should be.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:45
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:It’s a good start for everyone to believe that the institutions are not there to protect them in any way, going forward. Nobody is safe. Not in Trump’s America. So let's take steps to actively make poo poo worse? What the gently caress are you arguing any more?
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Feb 27, 2017 15:45
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WampaLord posted:So let's take steps to actively make poo poo worse? If you can’t tell, I’m a little paranoid. There is a deep subconscious sickness in this country that led to 2016, and so far we have been seeing only its symptoms. As much as I would like to dismiss Trump as an anomaly, I can’t imagine that this was even possible 30 years ago.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:56
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:If you can’t tell, I’m a little paranoid. You're loving demented, is what you are.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:57
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Oxxidation posted:You're loving demented, is what you are. It’s true Trump has a universally bad effect on everyone’s mental health, but I don’t want to call protestors getting shot or Sessions turning the country into a police state an irrational fear yet.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:05
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I don’t imagine universities as being the bastion of progress, for starters. The thing I absolutely fear the most is the young white community getting indoctrinated by right wing ideology while the left remains ill equipped to deal with it. Getting older isn’t going to make their political views any better either. Everything we have been doing to educate people on why being a reactionary shitbag has been wrong. 3 million more people voted for Hillary. Half of eligible voters stayed home. Only roughly 25% of the country voted for Trump.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:11
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Huzanko posted:3 million more people voted for Hillary. Half of eligible voters stayed home. Only roughly 25% of the country voted for Trump. And how did that work out for you?
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Feb 27, 2017 16:26
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http://abc7chicago.com/news/democrats-new-chair-on-electoral-mistakes-we-ignored-rural-swaths-of-america/1774232/quote:The new chair of the Democratic National Committee acknowledged the party made mistakes in its past election strategy and has work ahead to win more seats at all levels of government. quote:Stephanopoulos asked about apparent discord at the DNC meeting with some protest chants after Perez won, and Sanders' statement later that it was "imperative that Tom understands that the same-old, same-old is not working and that we must open the doors of the party to working people and young people in a way that has never been done before."
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Feb 27, 2017 16:28
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TheRat posted:And how did that work out for you? Obviously not very well but due to a lovely candidate, an opposing candidate who addressed voters material concerns while being the only one to blame some of those at fault, a lovely electoral system, and gerrymandering, not due to some permanent right-wing majority. Libs are looking for a reason to be hopeless because they can't face up to the fact that Hillary lost because she was a BAD CANDIDATE from a BAD PARTY who ran a BAD CAMPAIGN.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:39
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nachos posted:lmao this is THE WORST possible way to frame this even if he somehow means (he doesn't) that it will happen as a result of more active and engaged democratic base it's implying that dems will win back a few state governments by doing nothing, simply by a correction. that's nice i guess but it is a weird thing to say
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Feb 27, 2017 16:39
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is no discussion. The people who are there do it to feel good about themselves. The people who don’t learn internalize their racist views and run off to their micro-communities of hate on the internet such as /pol/. I don’t want people, especially the black community particular, to wait for college campuses to magically make white people less racist. Anyone who claims that "safe space" has anything to do with academic discussions and opposing points of view is a clueless idiot. The idea of safe spaces on campus was never applied to inside a classroom or to political debates. Support groups for things like sexual assault and racism created the term to indicate that they would be places where people would find support and discuss and vent about the issue, instead of having to deal with "maybe you were asking for it" or "the only real racism is reverse racism." Meanwhile, I've yet to see anyone concern about safe spaces and strawmanning the hell out of safe spaces say anything about, say, the NC legislature shutting down three self funded research centers within the UNC system because they dealt with topics they didn't like (biodiversity and poverty).
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Feb 27, 2017 16:43
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SKULL.GIF posted:Dead Cosmonaut, you gotta chill out and take some time to reflect on what people are telling you. you could make a pretty strong case IMO that upper-middle class professional and creative types are more of a problem in our politics than the billionaires
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Feb 27, 2017 16:43
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icantfindaname posted:it's implying that dems will win back a few state governments by doing nothing, simply by a correction. that's nice i guess but it is a weird thing to say And that's a loving terrible strategy. "Do nothing and hope everything works out" should not be the plan.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:44
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icantfindaname posted:it's implying that dems will win back a few state governments by doing nothing, simply by a correction. that's nice i guess but it is a weird thing to say They will, and the centrist wing of the party will take credit for it.
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