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JackMann posted:Not gonna lie. At least in the F&F thread, I've been really enjoying the timeline posted for Godlike. Thereīs a difference. The timeline in Godlike is interesting because its about real-world-history and the slight alt-history changes we can see or notice. In fantastic worlds, itīs usually "cliche, trope, cliche, trope, uninteresting sidenote" instead, as thereīs nothing connecting us to the history of the places we read about.
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Mar 7, 2017 10:26
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Also, as I understand it, you're intended to slot your Godlike adventures into whatever part of the war you want, so the Timeline also serves a purpose.
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Mar 7, 2017 10:28
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Mr.Misfit posted:Thereīs a difference. The timeline in Godlike is interesting because its about real-world-history and the slight alt-history changes we can see or notice. Yeah, I enjoy the one for Shadowrun for the same reasons, it exists to detail where their world broke off from our timeline and how it continued from there.
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Mar 7, 2017 10:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Timelines must be stopped. I picked up the Iron Kingdoms RPG. The setting chapter started with a bunch of ancient pre-history. I sold the loving thing on. If I can't use it in play, it should die in a fire. That may have been a driving goal behind W20 Shattered Dreams.
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Mar 7, 2017 10:48
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DigitalRaven posted:I picked up the Iron Kingdoms RPG. The setting chapter started with a bunch of ancient pre-history. I sold the loving thing on. If I can't use it in play, it should die in a fire. See, I kind of appreciated Iron Kingdoms because while, yeah, it had a bunch of pre-history and a timeline up front: It explicitly didn't do "Everything's been the same technology wise for the last several thousand years because of magic" It also didn't do the thing where you need to divide the scale of years everything happens on by 10-100.
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Mar 7, 2017 12:03
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Zurui posted:No I've had a bit of a look, and surprisingly, the only air cargo island hopping game I can find is called Air Charter, and it's from ~1970. You'd have thought that was a theme rife for exploitation.
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Mar 7, 2017 12:18
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It was sort of TailSpin-ey.
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I like the timeline in TBZ because it's such crazy nonsense, although reading between the lines you see that the magic plus Warring States plus robots setting is actually a lost space colony plus Warring States setting... which makes it even crazier. Like the game is never clear if the Shinto stuff is actually dealing with local gods or if it's all rogue computer programs and orbiting satellites because the way the timeline is laid out it could be either or even both.
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Mar 7, 2017 14:13
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The Mutant Year Zero robot expansion book has come up in the thread a couple of times before--it looks like most of their stretch goals are new "Zone Sectors." Anyone familiar with the base game and its released Zone Sectors? Are they any good? Just trying to judge how the ones for this Kickstarter might turn out.
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Mar 7, 2017 15:26
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I know I'm a bit late on the topic, but I think a big factor on setting timelines is where they are in the book. If they're at the forefront, that's a big mistake because don't have a frame of reference and not invested in the setting in general yet and now you're jamming a bunch of dates in my face. But like lifg said, in the case of Eberron they spend time beforehand going "okay, here's the broad strokes of the setting, here's some quick bullet points on the tone and the types of adventures you'll be going on, here's the crunch, now that you have all that foundation straightened out we can get into the details if you care." e: Eberron does have that 500 page "Grand History" document, but it's fan-compiled, not an official thing. Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 15:32
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The_Doctor posted:I've had a bit of a look, and surprisingly, the only air cargo island hopping game I can find is called Air Charter, and it's from ~1970. You'd have thought that was a theme rife for exploitation. Academy Games had something air related at Spiel, but damned if I can remember the name of it.
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Mar 7, 2017 16:13
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Antivehicular posted:Even Eberron, despite otherwise being a great setting, has too drat much of this, probably because it was a D&D contest entry and thus had to work in a lot of extraneous D&Details. The implementation is generally solid, but it's still a loss of focus. Funny enough, that was an actual requirement of the contest Eberron came out of. It had to be a world that could accommodate every facet of 3e D&D.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:34
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The Malthusian posted:The Mutant Year Zero robot expansion book has come up in the thread a couple of times before--it looks like most of their stretch goals are new "Zone Sectors." Anyone familiar with the base game and its released Zone Sectors? Are they any good? Just trying to judge how the ones for this Kickstarter might turn out. Mutant Year Zero core and expansions discussions here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3777631&perpage=40&pagenumber=84#post469635025 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3803702&userid=150880&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post469637283
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Mar 7, 2017 19:53
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Rising Sun, CMON/Eric Lang's latest, just started its Kickstarter and will be funded within a few hours at most. It's the sort-of spiritual successor to Blood Rage, which seems to be less well-regarded around here than in most places (like BGG). Lang has said that whereas Blood Rage distantly traces its inspiration back to Risk, Rising Sun does the same with Diplomacy. Which probably means I won't be backing it, since my group doesn't tend to go for the temporary alliances and eventual backstabbing that's pretty common in that sort of game. It's a CMON production so it has all of the high-quality miniatures you'd expect. It's set in feudal Japan and like Blood Rage, it has mythological elements, so you've got a bunch of fantastical creatures running around too. It looks like, unlike in Blood Rage, the different clans will have unique powers, which is a nice touch. Also I'm pretty sure it's currently at least partially responsible for overloading KS's site, which appears to be having problems right now. quote:Rising Sun is a board game for 3 to 5 players set in legendary feudal Japan. As the Kami descend from the heavens to reshape the land in their image, it is up to each player to lead their clan to victory. Use politics to further your cause, negotiate to seek the most profitable alliances, worship the Kami to gain their favor, recruit monsters out of legend to bolster your forces, and use your resources wisely to be victorious in battle. Japanese Dating Sim fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 21:08
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With the plethora of FRPG out on the market at the moment, what would it take for you to trust a kickstarter of a new one? This isn't so much a discussion of a real KS, but a hypothetical one. Don't know if thread appropriate.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:10
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Rising Sun is already funded, heh. Took about 21 minutes to reach their $300k level. Gonna blow Blood Rage, which got $900k, out of the water.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:24
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Covok posted:With the plethora of FRPG out on the market at the moment, what would it take for you to trust a kickstarter of a new one? This isn't so much a discussion of a real KS, but a hypothetical one. Don't know if thread appropriate. For me, who doesn't do a lot of kickstarters, a new edition of a known game, or a cheap PDF option. Ideally both.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:25
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Christ, the price of Rising Sun.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:51
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The_Doctor posted:I've had a bit of a look, and surprisingly, the only air cargo island hopping game I can find is called Air Charter, and it's from ~1970. You'd have thought that was a theme rife for exploitation. I believe what I was thinking of was Island Hopper. The good news is that the theme is pretty great. The bad news is that it's "an excellent combination of light strategy & dexterity that everyone will enjoy!" Oh well.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:53
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gently caress kickstarter exclusives and gently caress rising sun
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Mar 7, 2017 21:55
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Covok posted:With the plethora of FRPG out on the market at the moment, what would it take for you to trust a kickstarter of a new one? This isn't so much a discussion of a real KS, but a hypothetical one. Don't know if thread appropriate. A complete rules document available from day one if it's not an existing system and I don't mean "after we're funded" or "soon after the KS finishes" I mean as soon as you make the post the first update should be the plain text rules. Rules aren't worth anything, I can make a dozen RPGs in a day if you just wanted rules, so having them out to look at and check for errors goes a long way with me. After that, wow me with novel ideas, interesting settings, and good art. Finally, be affordable, no $50 for a 200 page softcover nonsense, charge the (admittedly criminally low) industry standards or as close as you can manage. If your printer gives you a bad estimate and you can't afford to charge a reasonable price for paper, that's fine as long as your PDF is at least half off the print copy price. Oh, also make the PDF the lowest tier, no "you don't get the game" tiers with postcards or dice or T-shirts or just "thanks", if people want to support you without getting anything they'll just throw money at you without a reward, production of unnecessary feelies eats into your budget for more important things.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:57
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S.J. posted:gently caress kickstarter exclusives and gently caress rising sun This is also part of the reason I'm not backing it. If you want to provide upgraded components like metal coins and whatnot, sure, but components that create a different gameplay experience are stupid.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:00
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Why the hell do companies keep doing that? I can't imagine that it brings in more customers than it turns away in the long run.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:04
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Kwyndig posted:I can't imagine that it brings in more customers than it turns away in the long run. I will guarantee you that you are incorrect in this statement. "Limited editions" and exclusives of anything sell like crazy. Look at any CMON game, ever. There is nothing wrong with offering a upgraded/different experience to something like a boardgame - it's a walled garden in that everyone who plays that version has the same experience. If three of my friends play my copy of the game, we all have access to special characters/weapons/whatever. It becomes a problem when you have something like a miniatures wargame where I might have a super-powerful model that you have no way of countering because you didn't get in on the KS.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:28
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They only had 1 KS exclusive until they uploaded the stretch goals, which immediately bumped them up to 5. They're gonna need more stretch goals, too, so expect it to get kinda crazy.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:31
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berzerkmonkey posted:It becomes a problem when you have something like a miniatures wargame where I might have a super-powerful model that you have no way of countering because you didn't get in on the KS.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:31
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berzerkmonkey posted:There is nothing wrong with offering a upgraded/different experience to something like a boardgame - it's a walled garden in that everyone who plays that version has the same experience. There is a lot wrong with hoping a game will sell at retail in a version that is significantly "less" than what you sold during the Kickstarter. For one thing, any potential customer who discovered your game by playing a KS copy at [friend's house/convention/game night at the store/whatever] then gets not delight but disappointment with what they can buy at retail. Secondarily, it encourages people to buy up your KS game copies at the discounted KS price and then flip them on eBay. This further undermines your ability to sell the full retail version at a higher retail price. Kickstarter-exclusives can be OK, when they're not just non-impactful to the gameplay but also not significant changes in the game's value. When you add too much value with your KS-exclusive content, you are effectively devaluing your end product, and that's not a good long-term plan. A much better approach is to offer early access to non-exclusive content/upgrades, or simply rely on the value of the KSer discount to encourage people to buy in. I think most people are OK with paying a little more (like maybe up to 20%?) for an on-the-shelf retail product vs. what the early-adopter risk-taking KSer crowd paid. But if I walk into a store and the game I'm being charged $50 for is available for $45 on eBay in a much better edition with more/nicer components, extra content, etc.? gently caress that retail package, I'm not buying it. I might not even buy it if the eBay ones are available at a higher price. You're handing the profit margin for your nicer edition to your KS customers instead of owning it yourself. e. Game store owners are also aware of this poo poo. They do not enjoy the experience of their own customers showing up to Wednesday Night Board Gaming Night with KS-exclusive copies of games they're trying to sell. They didn't get to sell that copy, and that copy's clear superiority is undercutting their ability to sell their own stock of the game. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 22:53
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Chill la Chill posted:WizKids should do that with a whole new game and jumpstart their usual awful business model from the ground up. They can even have a super expensive tier that allows you to join a special tournament that, upon winning, allows you to have even more exclusive cards. This is literally the business model of Marvel Puzzle Quest (free to play of course). http://marvel.com/games/161/marvel_puzzle_quest
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Mar 7, 2017 23:03
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My FLGS just posted this to their Facebook page. quote:Attn CMON fans - you can now back CMON Kickstarter games through RRG and still be assured to get ALL the Kickstarter rewards! If you are interested in the new Rising Sun Kickstarter, contact us at RRG and we'll get it pre-ordered for you. Instead of floating $100 for 6 months (or more) on Kickstarter, we'll let you pre-order it for $10 and pay the rest when you pick up your copy!
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Mar 7, 2017 23:19
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Rising Sun's up to $1mil backing and 6 gameplay changing KS exclusives (and 1 component enhancement) from its stretch goals.  More about the above FLGS olive branch: http://www.cmon.com/news/rising-sun-kickstarter-retail-pledge quote:Beginning from the launch of the Rising Sun campaign on Tuesday, March 7 at 3:00pm EST, and until the pledge manager closes, you, our valued retailer, will be able to be part of the Kickstarter Campaign, receiving the game along with all unlocked stretch goals in increments of 6, 9 or 12 copies. Japanese Dating Sim fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 23:54
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Alien Rope Burn posted:That's kind of how I already run 13th Age so far. Nobody's playing a dwarf or has the Dwarf King as a connection? No need for bearded shorties. Nobody's got a connection to the Three? Well, maybe the Three just isn't a thing. Yeah, I mostly just mean take it a step further and have all the little history segments offer mechanical and/or plot engagement, Like, okay, so you buy the lore about ancient wizarding empires with castles in the sky. This unlocks options like "SECRETS OF THE CLOUDCHITECTS" where you learn how to manufacture lighter-than-air fortifications, and meanwhile Bob's invested in the Elf-Dwarf conflict and has "STAR-CROSSED DESTINY" and is due to fall in love with an elf whose family doesn't approve.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:56
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dwarf74 posted:My FLGS just posted this to their Facebook page. This is great. gently caress CMON.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:23
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Does anyone know if Blood Rage (or any CMON game like that I guess) sold well in stores? I mean like, relative to other games I guess, but it had a fair amount of hype behind it.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:26
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:This is great. gently caress CMON.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:38
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GrandpaPants posted:Does anyone know if Blood Rage (or any CMON game like that I guess) sold well in stores? I mean like, relative to other games I guess, but it had a fair amount of hype behind it. It sold reasonably well, but people were seriously pissed about missing the exclusive content which a lot of backers flipped for more than they pledged. Same goes for Dogs of War, which had four exclusive captains. I paid $73 for an EB pledge. I could flip it now for $200. The worst offender, though, was Xenoshyft: Onslaught. That one included an important play mechanic as a KS exclusive.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:37
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:This is great. gently caress CMON. gently caress CMON because they tried to include FLGS in on the action?
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Mar 8, 2017 01:47
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Covok posted:With the plethora of FRPG out on the market at the moment, what would it take for you to trust a kickstarter of a new one? This isn't so much a discussion of a real KS, but a hypothetical one. Don't know if thread appropriate. Assuming by "F" you mean "fantasy", it would have to be a drastically different take on fantasy than anything currently on the market (perhaps using different mythological inspiration, for starters), not even whiff of being based on any edition of D&D or similarly crunchy RPGs currently on the market, and have a <$20 PDF option that includes all books produced for the project. Or probably, be PBTA, because I have a weakness for those. Mind you, I'm not this picky about most kinds of RPG, but I am so tired of fantasy RPGs right now, especially in the D&D mold.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:36
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Covok posted:With the plethora of FRPG out on the market at the moment, what would it take for you to trust a kickstarter of a new one? This isn't so much a discussion of a real KS, but a hypothetical one. Don't know if thread appropriate. PbtA Tekumel with a companion setting book, in the style 13th Age Glorantha has a separate Glorantha setting volume. To get less specific, anything that, like Tekumel, is completely free of any taint of medieval Europe, without a pointy ear or firebreathing reptile to be seen, along the lines of these existing properties: - Ehdrigohr - REIGN - Breakfast Cult (it's got magic, it counts as fantasy) - Inverse World That's what it would take to catch my eye. To catch my pledge, it'd need to be put together by someone who shows evidence of having a clue. A previous successfully delivered project would help a *lot*, but I'd take a risk for the right project, especially if vouched for by someone whose opinion I trust.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:03
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The Malthusian posted:The Mutant Year Zero robot expansion book has come up in the thread a couple of times before--it looks like most of their stretch goals are new "Zone Sectors." Anyone familiar with the base game and its released Zone Sectors? Are they any good? Just trying to judge how the ones for this Kickstarter might turn out. So a big part of Mutant Year: Zero is essentially a hex crawl, though they are squares. There are a bunch of tables to help you randomly generate these sectors and fill them with treasure, npcs, or monsters. Zone Sectors are just premade hexes that have something interesting in them, like an old ship that has a clan of mutants who run a bazaar open to everyone in the Zone. They're build to be able to just slot them in to an existing campaign and they work pretty well for that. Every Zone Sector doesn't work great with every campaign, the tone could be off or maybe you already had an idea for a faction that ran a bazaar but at the very least you can steal ideas and NPCs from them.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:51
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Covok posted:With the plethora of FRPG out on the market at the moment, what would it take for you to trust a kickstarter of a new one? This isn't so much a discussion of a real KS, but a hypothetical one. Don't know if thread appropriate. The rules, or at least a playtest version of them, should already be written and largely complete. Blades in the Dark went through a bunch of iterations, but you could download a Quickstart packet on day 1 and run some games. Ideally there should also be actual plays. AFAIK Red Markets didn't have its playtest rules released (except to alpha playtesters) until maybe a month after the KS, but even before the campaign there was already a full AP campaign available from RPPR, and then you could download a full second one as a backer. The creator should be heavily invested in running the campaign. Plug it everywhere, do a bunch of interviews on as many podcasts and gaming sites as you can, etc etc. This is also why it helps to have much of the book already written: you're not going to get any work on the book done during the 30 days of the campaign. Ideally you should have been trying to cultivate a community even before you launch the KS, so that you already have a set of fans with buy-in to your product and will help spread around word-of-mouth. Again, both Red Markets and Blades in the Dark did this, as the author of the former had been talking about his game to the RPPR community for a long time, and then the author of the latter had a number of smaller games already under his belt that showed off his designer chops. The Red Markets author even tried to start something here, although the reception was less than warm for any number of reasons. Another example I'd like to bring up would be our very own Strike! RPG. There were any number of us here on SA who'd been following that piece of work for years, so when the KS ran, we were confident that it'd get done, and we knew what we were getting into, and we were looking forward to it. In sum, there should be little doubt that you can deliver your product, and people should be excited about your game before you pull the trigger on the KS. You should be doing pre-KS announcements that'll have people chomping at the bit to throw their dollars at you.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:23
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Crackbone posted:gently caress CMON because they tried to include FLGS in on the action? Yeah, I don't understand that response either. Elaborate, CMON haters?
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Mar 8, 2017 04:49
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