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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Chuck it on Corporation Tax instead. If the Tories are all for small business this is an absolute no-brainer - saves a shitload of paperwork, and means taxes are only paid on profits not on headcount. It would be the biggest boost to small businesses and sole traders since the 80s, Of course that would then require them to actually enforce Corporation Tax on
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Mar 8, 2017 21:43
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Jeza posted:That's not really the "summery" at all. I was simply depressed at how server sector employers engineered a system where they rely on EU labour and are blaming the situation on UK nationals thinking themselves too good to work those jobs, whereas in fact it seems like these companies have specifically set up the situation to favour EU nationals over UK nationals because it's more cost effective for them to hire less itinerant workers. Locations of Prets won't be random. You'll get more of them in areas where there are fewer unskilled local people because poor people don't want to pay whatever the gently caress it is they charge for a sandwich. As far as I could tell from a quick search on Google maps there isn't a single Pret in the whole of Suffolk or Lincolnshire, for example. Basically they're saying that it's like that in places like London or Edinburgh etc.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:44
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Aye there's no trained talent in lincolnshire or suffolk lmao
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Mar 8, 2017 21:45
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Seaside Loafer posted:Well my take on it is that only desperate people with no other options would take them and that would include the migrant labor. But I think we are agreeing basically unless i've missed the point again? My point is broadly that these jobs are ideally suited for young people and people looking for first jobs, but companies have basically just shut that avenue down entirely because they can just hire people from other countries where the poverty wage they offer is actually good money back home. I don't think you need to be desperate to work in a place like Pret, all you need is to live nearby and want some work experience and extra cash and don't have a lot of skills to leverage. I believe in EU migration and free movement, but I find it pretty aggravating to see big chains turning casual work opportunities for the young into long term stable careers for people imported from other countries. It just feels wrong to bring in a foreign underclass of service workers by hook or by crook, and then claim that they are necessary because otherwise they'd never have enough staff. As Guavanaut says, if they didn't have this cheap labour to supplant UK nationals with, then maybe they'd actually be forced to offer a living wage.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:46
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jBrereton posted:Aye there's no trained talent in lincolnshire or suffolk lmao That's not what I said you rear end.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:46
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I don't frequent coffee shops but in my last contract id often go to subway in Eastbourne station in the morning and everyone who worked there over the last year was some sort of east euro person. No idea what that means really but I suspect its poo poo company peddling poo poo part time job to people who cant get anything else.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:47
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Living in no where Wales I laugh at your "coffee shops". When I need refreshment I strain the blood out of a sea otter.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:48
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Jeza posted:My point is broadly that these jobs are ideally suited for young people and people looking for first jobs, but companies have basically just shut that avenue down entirely because they can just hire people from other countries where the poverty wage they offer is actually good money back home. I don't think you need to be desperate to work in a place like Pret, all you need is to live nearby and want some work experience and extra cash and don't have a lot of skills to leverage.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:53
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This Surrey Council thing also doesn't seem to be going away... https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/839550739785605120
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Mar 8, 2017 21:54
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jabby posted:This Surrey Council thing also doesn't seem to be going away... 1% battery loving shameful
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Mar 8, 2017 21:56
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oh my loving god jeremy nobody cares about this stuff, please reclaim the mantle of being the party of the NHS from these cunts
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Mar 8, 2017 21:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:Living in no where Wales I laugh at your "coffee shops". When I need refreshment I strain the blood out of a sea otter. I think this means you either live in an English or REALLY crappy part of Wales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Italians Puritan drinking laws are a boon to social relations!
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Mar 8, 2017 21:59
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Is that illegal? They're just saying they want the same as everywhere else. Also I wish Corbyn's twitter was a bit more passionate. How can you put a full stop after Explosive revelations?
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Mar 8, 2017 21:59
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Explosive message here.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:01
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The last thing Labour needs right now is to have this thing spun into "Labour is so fervently against this government that they want to deny people with learning difficulties money - how low can their fanaticism stoop???".
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Mar 8, 2017 22:01
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jabby posted:This Surrey Council thing also doesn't seem to be going away... It's also not going anywhere. As jbrereton said: nobody gives a poo poo.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:02
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Breath Ray posted:Is that illegal? They're just saying they want the same as everywhere else. Also I wish Corbyn's twitter was a bit more passionate. How can you put a full stop after Explosive revelations? It's not illegal, but it's a Tory council using their connections to Tory MPs and the government to have their funding changed. Either by using money found 'down the back of the sofa' or even worse, taking it away from other councils to give to them. It's definitely extremely shady and it shows that Surrey explicitly was trying to get a sweetheart deal and the local MPs were supporting it. jBrereton posted:The last thing Labour needs right now is to have this thing spun into "Labour is so fervently against this government that they want to deny people with learning difficulties money - how low can their fanaticism stoop???". This is nonsense. The Tories are looking out for their own at the expense of everyone else, and your response is we better drop it because no-one cares and it might get spun badly. Especially if you're going to say Labour need to talk about the NHS instead, something they have been banging on about relentlessly for weeks both at PMQs and every other opportunity. jabby fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 22:03
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"By the way they don't call it the last Labour government for nothing"
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Mar 8, 2017 22:06
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It's funny because everyone goes 'Oh Eastern Europe, so corrupt!' and yet we have tons of it from directorships for exiting civil servants and MPs, Tories breaching election spending rules and nepotism favouring Tory areas and also everyone just shrugs and agrees that's what Tories do.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:07
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jabby posted:This is nonsense. The Tories are looking out for their own at the expense of everyone else, and your response is we better drop it because no-one cares and it might get spun badly. Especially if you're going to say Labour need to talk about the NHS instead, something they have been banging on about relentlessly for weeks both at PMQs and every other opportunity.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:08
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namesake posted:It's funny because everyone goes 'Oh Eastern Europe, so corrupt!' and yet we have tons of it from directorships for exiting civil servants and MPs, Tories breaching election spending rules and nepotism favouring Tory areas and also everyone just shrugs and agrees that's what Tories do. George Osborne just landed a £650,000 job working four days a month for a fund that benefited from some of his changes to the pensions system. Better keep quiet about that, jeez no one cares you guys.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:08
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tbh when I was on the dole I never got a single response from the many, many lovely minimum wage jobs that I applied for. the only thing I got was the temporary stuff at the royal mail over christmas (which neither minimum wage nor lovely) i assumed that was probably due to hiring managers thinking that seeing as i had a degree i would probably gently caress off the moment i got any better offer at all and they would have been right
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Mar 8, 2017 22:10
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It's almost as if the real problem is not the european immigrants but *gasp* the corrupt gently caress parasite politicians that bleed the country dry
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Mar 8, 2017 22:11
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jBrereton posted:Yeah again though it isn't the policy that's the problem, it's the issue of whether you want to be the Labour leader who says corporation tax is going up by 12% as soon as they get into power? Media will spin it into "BUSINESS TAXES ARE GOING UP 60%" which makes it seem like it threatens small businesses even if it doesn't and so on. You know I hadn't realised just how loving tiny Corporation Tax take is in this country when I said that. It's basically half what NI is so you'd need to double it (well maybe not, depending on how you enforce it) in order to get the same revenue. So let's settle on a rate of 30% - 50% higher than current, still lower than the rest of the G8 apart from Russia and Canada (really? Canada? The gently caress are they doing there?). We'd still need to find another £50bn to make up the shortfall, but by my back-of-the-envelope calculations you can make that simply by upping the basic rate of Income Tax to 25% - a bastard move, for sure, but we're being Tories here. That still means that the actual tax deducted for those below the 40% threshold is still less, because they lose the 12% NI deduction. That's without even touching CGT or Stamp Duty, which should be upped to let VAT be dropped back down to 15%, something that would actually help insulate us from the massive price spikes post-Brexit. We're not America (yet), the right person could sell this poo poo to everyone but the top 10% with utter ease, press be damned. Unfortunately I don't think the right person exists in any political party any more.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:11
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jabby posted:George Osborne just landed a £650,000 job working four days a month for a fund that benefited from some of his changes to the pensions system. Good because the requirement to buy annuities only was super stupid Osborne did a real solid there on pension freedom
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Mar 8, 2017 22:14
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Malcolm XML posted:Good because the requirement to buy annuities only was super stupid Now they can be (purely) small investors or buy to let landlords instead! Nothing bad ever happens to them, nor do they have negative consequences for society!
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Mar 8, 2017 22:18
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I am sat in a restaurant and a table over is a bunch of Tory political types. They are talking about the lib dems I think.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:22
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Fangz posted:I am sat in a restaurant and a table over is a bunch of Tory political types. They are talking about the lib dems I think. Are we talking Tory voters, Tory politicians or Young Tories at university? Paint me a word picture.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:28
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namesake posted:I think this means you either live in an English or REALLY crappy part of Wales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Italians I live in North Wales. I wouldn't describe it as "crappy". But it is sparsely populated. Welsh Italalins or not when you live in the sticks there isn't going to be a coffee shop. If I really really needed a coffee I could get on a bus. I'll stick to sea otter. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 22:29
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You know what to do comrade, regardless.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:29
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Jeza posted:My point is broadly that these jobs are ideally suited for young people and people looking for first jobs, but companies have basically just shut that avenue down entirely because they can just hire people from other countries where the poverty wage they offer is actually good money back home. I don't think you need to be desperate to work in a place like Pret, all you need is to live nearby and want some work experience and extra cash and don't have a lot of skills to leverage. Playing devil's advocate a little but as long as we do have free movement, what are the companies expected to do? I mean, we seem to be talking about a situation where some applications come from people who are enthusiastic and plan to stay for a long time, and others come from people who aren't that bothered beyond wanting some extra income and will quit as soon as they can. If that is indeed what's happening (I'm just basing that on what others have said here, if I understood properly) then who should the firm hire? Who would you hire if you were the manager? Presumably we dont want employers to discriminate against people on the basis of nationality.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:30
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Enthusiastic..or desperate?
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Mar 8, 2017 22:32
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Paxman posted:Presumably we dont want employers to discriminate against people on the basis of nationality. Also devil's advocate, but uhh, I don't know how to tell you, but we most definitely already legally do. As does every single other country on the planet in fact, as far as I am aware. Now nationality of birth on the other hand, well ... Private Speech fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 22:35
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Breath Ray posted:Enthusiastic..or desperate? We'll let's assume they seem enthusiastic from the point of view of the store manager of Bromley's branch of Costa, who isn't responsible for Poland being a relatively poor country after all.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:37
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Had lunch with a couple of Labour parliamentary aides today and witnessed their response to May's utterly bizarre fake laugh in real time. I could kind of sense their frustrations because she's utterly somehow both utterly terrible at the dispatch box but also somehow impervious to anything that's directed at her.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:40
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namesake posted:Are we talking Tory voters, Tory politicians or Young Tories at university? Middle aged white guys in pinstripe suits. Now they are talking about cars. "I have two jaguars, a Peugeot and a bmw convertible. Jags are so cheap these days." "Osborne is a tosser". "Heseltine is an arrogant fool."
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Mar 8, 2017 22:40
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Paxman posted:Playing devil's advocate a little but as long as we do have free movement, what are the companies expected to do? I believe this is filed under 'the capitalism mode of production and wage labour is inherently bad for society'. Two parties with no interest in anyone but themselves seek the simplest relationship possible at the greatest benefit to themselves; hence employers seek to create the perfect workforce of cheap, reliable and with no other option workers, the state endeavors to assist them in this and employees suffer when they fit the bill and suffer worse if they don't, even if they care about their job they don't care about the business. Co-operative business structures which give workers control could absolutely accept transitory migrant labour but wouldn't prioritise it based on purely business cost because they'd be working and living alongside them, as well as ending the semi-illegal flow by people traffickers because they couldn't guarantee the kind of work that they do now to the migrant worker.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:41
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Private Speech posted:Also devil's advocate, but uhh, I don't know how to tell you, but we most definitely already legally do. As does every single other country on the planet in fact, as far as I am aware. Now nationality at birth on the other hand ... Yeah we do if we're talking in general terms, eg its a lot harder for an Indian to work here than a French person, but i think the posts i responded to were talking specifically about people who have a legal right to live and work in this country by virtue of being EU citizens. Should a firm discriminate against a Polish job applicant in favour of a British applicant on the basis of nationality? That would be both illegal and wrong I think?
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Mar 8, 2017 22:43
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Paxman posted:Yeah we do if we're talking in general terms, eg its a lot harder for an Indian to work here than a French person, but i think the posts i responded to were talking specifically about people who have a legal right to live and work in this country by virtue of being EU citizens. Yeah I know, it was just tongue in cheek. But as you said it's legal to discriminate against someone who doesn't have a legal right to freely work here, both in the hiring process and by the government itself in the form of immigration laws. You can still hire them under certain conditions and with enough effort if you wish, but that suffices to deter all but the most determined companies.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:48
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Paxman posted:Yeah we do if we're talking in general terms, eg its a lot harder for an Indian to work here than a French person, but i think the posts i responded to were talking specifically about people who have a legal right to live and work in this country by virtue of being EU citizens. You have to question some of the assumptions you start out with. Why does the Polish worker want (or need) to work long term at a coffee shop for minimum wage, while the English worker doesn't? Is the English worker more skilled? If so, why is he/she looking for an entry level job? Why isn't the Polish worker able to gain the skills the English one has? To be honest though, the brutal truth is probably that freedom of movement is very good for corporations but maybe not so good for workers. Just like the freedom of movement of capital, of goods etc.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:51
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