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1500quidporsche posted:I'm starting to think the issue with them is that they've been in and out of the sport so there's zero knowledge retention. The two engine manufacturer who have always been in consistently the past 30 years also just happen to have the two best engines, I don't think that's a coincidence. I think you're right. And Honda's biggest problem is refusing to hire any experienced outside engineers and attempting to build everything in-house.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:59
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Why would you do that. You can't do that. If you're Ferrari or Merc then you can make a case that perhaps the talent is already in-house. But Honda knew they had no real experience in this, surely the first thing you do is find some leader in the field to head up your new department. What a poo poo company to work for.. have you heard we're spinning up a new division and we're going to do this cool stuff? Oh wow, who is going to lead it? Oh, they're giving it to loving Frank because he's been here a long time or something. In technology half the fun is welcoming a new manager who just came from Cisco or Microsoft and sucking some of that culture out of them for us.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:23
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wicka posted:I think you're right. And Honda's biggest problem is refusing to hire any experienced outside engineers and attempting to build everything in-house. They did, they just didn't listen to anything he had to say. Which is almost more alarming when you think about it. I get it's humbling for a company with that kind of culture but they really need to hire Illien, and even look at paying Renault to reduce his gardening leave. They're obviously in over their heads and everybody but them can see it.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:56
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wicka posted:What does this have to do with attempting to hire from the primarily UK-based F1 engineering talent? Cool, while we're wasting Toyota's money we'll move an established massive racing organization (TTE) from Cologne to England because clearly only  knows how to make F1 cars. Yep. They had a pretty massive team already built up. The team that won the WRC and got really close at Le Mans before and since (the current program is also based there). As mentioned, the issue was too much senior management meddling from Japan. [Edit] and Honda didn't hire experienced F1 engineers because their goal with racing isn't marketing, it's R&D and developing their engineers. Has been since the 1960s. They pulled the F1 team in the late 1960s to develop the CVCC engine, they went from the V10 engine to a V12 in the 3.5 liter era for the challenge of it (and it became the last V12 to win a title, suck it Ferrari). I'm not saying they're right - with as much press as they're getting and leaning on in Japan they absolutely need to do better - but just the approach they have. harperdc fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 01:14
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Again - what the gently caress does Toyota WRC and Le Mans organizations have to do with hiring from UK-based F1 teams? Read what I'm actually saying, not just what you want to read.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:18
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harperdc posted:Cool, while we're wasting Toyota's money we'll move an established massive racing organization (TTE) from Cologne to England because clearly only The issue isn't that, its as I've said there's no retained knowledge in any of those teams so doing stuff is more difficult. If you listen to Frank Dernie talk about working for Toyota he pretty much spelled out that everything took longer to get done because they didn't have those years of experience so they had to go out and learn the basics, that's why attracting UK staff that have worked in F1 for years is more important. And its the same with Honda. The R&D thing isn't the issue, I don't think anybody is arguing that, infact I think it'd probably be an asset to get a fresh set of eyes to re-evaluate things once you really get up and running. But this whole decade on, six years off approach is really destroying their basic knowledge of fundamentals and it really showed how badly its screwing them out of the gate when they hosed up the oil tank. When you have a radical concept, you're going to immediately be able to identify the draw backs and see ways to work around them when you've got that core knowledge you can draw from because the department has been consistently at this for 30 years. And this is the issue Honda is having, they aren't able to identify the pitfalls to their own concepts.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:34
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harperdc posted:Cool, while we're wasting Toyota's money we'll move an established massive racing organization (TTE) from Cologne to England because clearly only It's probably worth pointing out too that unless something dramatic has changed in the last year or two, the LMP engine just arrives in a box from Japan.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:04
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This thread moves quickly and I have not been paying attention to any F1 news during the off-season. Is there some site out there that has a digest style recap of what's happened off-season? Googling "formula 1 off-season recap" didn't really give me much and I'm sure someone here knows where to look.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:13
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GutBomb posted:This thread moves quickly and I have not been paying attention to any F1 news during the off-season. Is there some site out there that has a digest style recap of what's happened off-season? Googling "formula 1 off-season recap" didn't really give me much and I'm sure someone here knows where to look. - Bernie out - Ross Brawn partially in charge now - Manor GP out - Felipe Nasr out - Weltmeister Nico Rosberg retired - Bottas to Mercedes - New Canadian driver in Williams - Massa un-retired and back at Williams - New cars are ugly as poo poo - McLaren-Honda worse than ever before - Henno stream is gone forever I think that just about covers it?
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Mar 9, 2017 04:22
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GutBomb posted:This thread moves quickly and I have not been paying attention to any F1 news during the off-season. Is there some site out there that has a digest style recap of what's happened off-season? Googling "formula 1 off-season recap" didn't really give me much and I'm sure someone here knows where to look. Motorsport.com and the f1 2017 season Wikipedia page typically has all the major events that have occurred so far
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Mar 9, 2017 04:29
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Wirth1000 posted:Motorsport.com and the f1 2017 season Wikipedia page typically has all the major events that have occurred so far This is perfect thanks! td4guy posted:- Ron Dennis out Holy poo poo I should have paid more attention. I literally only knew about the Rosberg thing. Also I don't know what a henno stream is.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:50
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I guess it was like justin.tv
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Mar 9, 2017 05:58
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I like the new cars.
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Mar 9, 2017 06:13
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You Am I posted:I guess it was like justin.tv No. It was just one dude streaming high quality HD race coverage. He had a network of mirrors funded by donations.
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Mar 9, 2017 06:49
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Human Grand Prix posted:I like the new cars. Yeah, for the most part they look okay, and all seem to be somewhat quick with the williams actually seeming to keep up with the mercedes somewhat, so even if the mercs do go out and kick everyone's rear end again, it will be at least be a good 3 way fight for second. honda fired their engine consultant, and were running trap speeds 6kph slower than sauber, and 30kph than williams, and the engines still keep blowing up because of oil issues, so now with nando talking poo poo about them, i can see the whole thing blowing up. Should we taking bets on how many races it's going to take for mclaren to finish one? e: imagine how big of a kick in the nuts it would be for williams to suddenly have a competitive car out of nowhere, but stroll could never get the second car over the line. Powershift fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 06:53
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Powershift posted:
Macca are finished already for all practical purposes
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Mar 9, 2017 06:59
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Done far far more testing miles than last year and the engines have exploded less. The frustration stems from Mclaren not expecting the engines to explode at all and that they had quite reasonably expected to have reached engine parity with mercades by this point when they signed the contracts. Lol if you think any of the lap times and speeds are relevent given that they are all sticking to a delta with the engines turned right down. Without footage showing how the car are handling the only thing we can tell from testing is how reliable the engines are. Mercades and Ferrari good, Red Bull's Renault engine good, everyone else's Renault engine bad, Honda bad but ultimately may turn out to be better than the Renault engine. I'm not sure what they guy was on about earlier, it's not so much that UK engineers are better than everyone else's, it's that all the best engineers are based in the UK, no matter their nationality, because the UK is where the F1 teams and therefore the best jobs are. (If wica and I agree then the stars have aligned and a correct thing has been posted)
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Mar 9, 2017 07:37
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Mar 9, 2017 09:00
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Link for the lazy http://www.autosport.com/live/commentary/id/2518048/formula-1-testing-2017-barcelona-second-f1-test-day-three
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Mar 9, 2017 09:17
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On-board with fastest lap. Looks like it's on rails, so quick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJnFqmRo700 Comparison Video - Makes it look like Mercedes vs....McLaren. http://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsp...20a8ab80ea7d18d Halo14 fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 10:04
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During my time away I reflected and have considered that if Lewis fucks around this year Bottas will beat him. I don't really think he's given enough credit, people say he's boring and has no personality but he's kind of like Javier Bardem in No Country For Old Men. Just a relentless, slow-moving force that will get you and pump your skull full of compressed air if you gently caress around Snapchatting pictures of your dogs or Instagramming the poo poo out of whatever you're hawking as part of a sponsorship deal. Sure he didn't set the world alight at Williams, but he's at Mercedes now and being in the dominant car is like 90% of the battle. If Rosberg can beat Hamilton I don't see why Bottas can't. Hell, Lauda might not be able to help himself and sabotage Hamilton's engines again this year just for more lulz.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:05
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Yeah, I have to say, Bottas on the surface so far looks to be in better form than Hamilton.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:19
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Halo14 posted:On-board with fastest lap. Looks like it's on rails, so quick. Holy poo poo that really is super stable. I mean yeah I doubt Bottas is giving it 10 10ths in that lap, but even during the final chicane its just so calm. Ferrari and Red Bull are going to have to sacrifice some children to half a dozen elder gods to find something to match that. Theophany posted:During my time away I reflected and have considered that if Lewis fucks around this year Bottas will beat him. I don't really think he's given enough credit, people say he's boring and has no personality but he's kind of like Javier Bardem in No Country For Old Men. Just a relentless, slow-moving force that will get you and pump your skull full of compressed air if you gently caress around Snapchatting pictures of your dogs or Instagramming the poo poo out of whatever you're hawking as part of a sponsorship deal. Possibly. Its' 50 50 in my mind how Lewis takes it. If he's still crying salty tears into his pillow over losing to Rosberg that might motivate him enough to pay attention to what he's doing this year and if that's true, even if Bottas pulls out all the stops this year because he's in the big boy team now, I reckon he'd lose just due to lack of team familiarity. If Lewis is dumb and repeats his mistakes from last year and Bottas makes the most of his time there and basically does what Rosberg did and live in the simulator/factory, I wouldn't rule it out.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:29
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Carth Dookie posted:Possibly. Its' 50 50 in my mind how Lewis takes it. If he's still crying salty tears into his pillow over losing to Rosberg that might motivate him enough to pay attention to what he's doing this year and if that's true, even if Bottas pulls out all the stops this year because he's in the big boy team now, I reckon he'd lose just due to lack of team familiarity. Lewis did have an unusually high number of reliability issues last year that cost him the title as well as some human error. I'd have said the WDC was nailed on for him last year had it not been for Malaysia. Hamilton has a steeliness and I do believe that when he is on it he is nigh on unbeatable, but the way he handles adversity seems to be pretty (hey, look mods, I spelled the whole goddamn loving word!) weak - or at least that seems to be the perception. Like so much of his performances are inordinately down to his precious mental state - the polar opposite would be Mansell or Schuey who'd turn up and tear it up regardless. Bottas on the other hand seems to be pretty taciturn about mistakes. When he nearly nailed pole but ran wide on the final corner at Barcelona a couple of years ago his response was to shrug his shoulders and move on from it. I can't help but feel that if had been Hamilton in that position it's be some major story about Mercedes giving him an inferior suspension setup or some bullshit. I dunno, maybe it's wishful thinking. I'm just optimistic that Bottas is so single-minded and uninterested in anything that isn't F1 racing that he'll be a genuine title contender.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:42
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Hey I want it to be true too, if only because if its going to be all Merc all the time again, I'd really like it if Bottas could actually make the title fight at least interesting. That said I actually like Bottas and think he's a very good driver. Better than midfield material at least, and this year we'll get to see if he's a proper pointy end contender.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:51
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F1 2017: I want to believe...
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Mar 9, 2017 10:53
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I hope Bottas beats Lewis while being totally dull and that it makes Lewis mad and try to reboot himself during the year as a trans person
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Mar 9, 2017 10:55
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julian assflange posted:I hope Bottas beats Lewis while being totally dull and that it makes Lewis mad and try to reboot himself during the year as a trans person I can imagine him more than anybody looking at a TV camera deadpan and asking a reporter if they assumed his gender.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:58
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lol that Bottas lap video has been deleted from YouTube due to a FOM claim. That freedom sure was short lived.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:00
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I hope bottas gets decapitated by debris in Melbourne. Alonso finishes 5 laps down, 2 ahead of Stoffel. Incensed and full of rage, he asks lewis how snapchat works and posts a stream of abuse at Honda. MCLRN fire Alonso. A free agent, he gets approached by Toto and offered the vacant seat, on the one condition he doesn't cut his hair. Alonso agrees. Alonso > Lewis, Alonso WDC. Alonso finally smiles properly again and the thread's hearts melt, and but for one clear moment, there is a whole page of good posts.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:12
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gently caress dude. That was intense.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:14
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Theophany posted:lol that Bottas lap video has been deleted from YouTube due to a FOM claim. That freedom sure was short lived. Still working for me?
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Mar 9, 2017 11:33
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Halo14 posted:Still working for me? My bad, didn't notice that they've prevented embedded viewing.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:40
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Halo14 posted:On-board with fastest lap. Looks like it's on rails, so quick. That drat thing was on rails carrying so much speed through some of those segments. Compare where he's braking, too. So late into the first turn 
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Mar 9, 2017 12:00
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Consider that there's no chance he's actually doing anything like pushing it to the limits, and quite probably not even running at full engine power. That may explain why it looks so calm, but its still very impressive.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:02
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drat it Honda. Red flag, stoffel pulled over after he left the pits.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:29
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Whose birthday is it today? That's right! 32 years young, and forever in our hearts.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:51
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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So Flávio threw a surprise party for bernie and a load of washed up has beens showed up http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128424 Flávio thinks Bernie was treated poorly by a company that went "you don't do poo poo for your money, and haven't done since the 80s, why on earth would we keep you around when you no longer own any part of the company?"
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Mar 9, 2017 12:51
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learnincurve posted:drat it Honda. Red flag, stoffel pulled over after he left the pits. Man, hondas sure do seem unreliable. i'll have to second guess that civic i was lookin at.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:52
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Powershift posted:Man, hondas sure do seem unreliable. i'll have to second guess that civic i was lookin at. The new Civics are still insanely nice FYI.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:54
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