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xrunner posted:Snip Thank you thst was interesting I will try to look at it from another angle. I can see how my bitching is misdirected and even if its not directed at hating homeless it still dehumanizes them from people into a generic problem. Mr. Lobe posted:Snip Unhelpful lashing out wont make anyone reconsider anything and just double down on their views. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 21:27
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Yo, dude who was losing his mind about people arguing over fares, here's a life hack: Next time someone does that, just pay their fare. Bus starts moving, you've made a bunch of days better, and if everyone starts doing it the odds that you'll have to do it more than once or twice a year are low.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:39
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Jack2142 posted:Unhelpful lashing out wont make anyone reconsider anything and just double down on their views. We're being harsh, but you don't get to pull this act. Your moral and societal education is your responsibility, not ours. You're welcome for the hand-out. I love how all the folks who complain about the homeless would come out ahead if we built free homes for them but it's more important to punish people for having the temerity to be poor.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:15
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George posted:We're being harsh, but you don't get to pull this act. Your moral and societal education is your responsibility, not ours. You're welcome for the hand-out. Except I dont agree with the no free homes and help support them getting off the street position.. I dont particulaily like my encounters with them, but I do think thet deserve a better shake than the cities current policies appear to be. I would imagine you have a better picture as you mention workinf for the Parks and pretty disdainful about what your departments been told. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 22:44
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Jack2142 posted:Except I dont agree with the no free homes and help position. I dont particulaily like my encounters with them, but I do think thet deserve a better shake than the cities current policies appear to be.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:46
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anthonypants posted:Judging by your last couple posts it looks like you are more concerned about the poor affecting you, personally, by existing in public within your vicinity.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:55
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twodot posted:Supposing this is true, so what? Why chase off someone who agrees with your policy proposals if they only agree for selfish reasons? Fundamentally, because they don't necessarily agree with those policy proposals and they certainly aren't willing to put energy into supporting those policy proposals. If your viewpoint is that the problem is the homeless, rather than homelessness, you may be open to a housing for all solution. But how hard are you going to fight for that solution when somebody else stops by and says "Yes, housing for all is very nice, but I can solve this problem more easily and at less cost with greater political buy-in. See, what we do is make it untenable for the homeless to exist in the public spaces you're in, and then they go away. Maybe we give them bus tickets out of town." You might even, in your gut, think "Wow, that's kind of crappy" but how hard are you going to push for the solution to the underlying problem if what you care about is the immediate symptoms and somebody else is making those symptoms go away? That's how you get laws that prohibit feeding people in public spaces, or oh-so clever laws banning dogs in downtown areas. Then Jack2142 reads an article about those laws one morning and thinks "Boy, that's pretty unfair. Well. Time to go catch the bus. Glad I don't have to worry about somebody having a medical emergency in public anymore."
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Mar 9, 2017 23:04
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twodot posted:Supposing this is true, so what? Why chase off someone who agrees with your policy proposals if they only agree for selfish reasons? Like I'm seeing these posts, and I'm thinking "these sound like great arguments to use against people who are opposed to helping the homeless for selfish reasons".
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Mar 9, 2017 23:06
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anthonypants posted:Judging by your last couple posts it looks like you are more concerned about the poor affecting you, personally, by existing in public within your vicinity. Poor people in general dont bother me it was this small subset of maybe like 8 people in the last few months who bothered me enough to write a dumb rant and then make some stupid comments. I am not really doing that great either financially and if it came across as punching down the last few months have been frustrating for myself not that it is a good excuse. Im not exactly mad about getting ribbed here it make take a bit of a step back and realize the little bubble I've been in. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 23:11
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anthonypants posted:Because complaining about being slightly inconvenienced by a poor is an incredibly loving conceited position to take? xrunner posted:Fundamentally, because they don't necessarily agree with those policy proposals
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Mar 9, 2017 23:26
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twodot posted:So you prefer being angry at conceited people you don't even know to making progress towards your policy goals?
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Mar 9, 2017 23:29
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Relax and smoke a bowl before trump sends the dea into Seattle.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:30
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twodot posted:
No it makes sense its the same kind of situation you get in elections when orher people my age decide eh my vote doesnt matter despite complaining about how bad - insert party/person here- and then dont bother to vote on election day, then get surprised when bam now you dont have healthcare.Because the party you didnt want to win won because ypu didnt really care enough to take msrginal action.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:32
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Jack2142 posted:No it makes sense its the same kind of situation you get in elections when orher people my age decide eh my vote doesnt matter despite complaining about how bad - insert party/person here- and then dont bother to vote on election day, then get surprised when bam now you dont have healthcare. You're an ally on this particular topic, yelling at you for being an ally for the wrong reasons is counterproductive to that particular topic. If the fact that you're an ally for the wrong reasons ever turns you into an enemy, that's when you shout at people.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:38
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twodot posted:I don't follow. Is your suggestion here that if I encounter a person on the Internet saying "my vote doesn't matter and person X is bad" and I agree that person X is bad, I should immediately assume 1) They are whatever age you are 2) That they aren't going to vote on election day 3) They will be surprised by whatever happens after the next election, and therefore it's reasonable for me to just start shouting at them about how they are lazy idiots because of an event that hasn't even happened yet? Well nothats not what I was trying to say yelling at people generally doesnt work or telling them their bad tends to close people up. The point I guess I was trying to make is that people who only are lukewarm supporters when push comes to shove you cant count on them not stepping out of the way instead of providing support. Like hey we could get the homless off the street by uppin property tax which sure I support in theory. However since I am being selfish I hear said new tax will pump up my rent I decide eh gently caress it fixing the homeless problem isnt worth it. That kind of support is quick to evaporate and if you really care about an issue those types of people are insanely frustrating to deal with. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 23:46
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Homelessness is a societal issue that can't be nimbyed away by banning the symptoms, AND mentally ill smelly people have a negative impact on the people around them. These positions are not mutually exclusive. My city held an  EMERGENCY CITY COUNCIL MEETING to ban handing anything out a car window to a pedestrian on any roadway, because the occasional hobo or panhandler begging for change by the off-ramp was a HUGE GODDAMNED DEAL apparently. Pissed me off, I liked giving those guys my bags of returnable cans that aren't worth my time to recycle. :|
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Mar 10, 2017 00:46
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got any sevens posted:Relax and smoke a bowl before trump sends the dea into Seattle. Donald Trump doesn't know where the PNW is. Seriously, the time he showed up in Washington state he thought he'd been kidnapped.
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Mar 10, 2017 01:03
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Relevant Tangent posted:Donald Trump doesn't know where the PNW is. Seriously, the time he showed up in Washington state he thought he'd been kidnapped. Did he have a rally in Spokane?
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Mar 10, 2017 01:05
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double post
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Mar 10, 2017 01:12
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twodot posted:So you prefer being angry at conceited people you don't even know to making progress towards your policy goals? yeah I'm sure he's just a handful of delicate sugar coated words away from becoming an impactful advocate of homeless policy I realize I am being very aggressive about this issue but I've been at the last couple of homeless sweeps first south of Ballard bridge, and then at the Field of Dreams, and it makes me mad as hell to see such pointless, wasteful and spiteful actions taken by the city. the political basis for them is rooted that kind of self-absorbed contempt for the downtrodden, and I have about zero patience for it. I think it should be called out for what it is. Mr. Lobe fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 02:34
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Hey, poo poo posting from detroit bcuz I read you're all gonna die in some giant fuckoff earthquake this century what's up with that/how much is it gonna cost to rebuild/y'all should come move to Detroit and help us keep the water from becoming flammable again k?
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Mar 10, 2017 02:45
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ugh quote is not edit
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Mar 10, 2017 02:48
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The Groper posted:Hey, poo poo posting from detroit bcuz I read you're all gonna die in some giant fuckoff earthquake this century what's up with that/how much is it gonna cost to rebuild/y'all should come move to Detroit and help us keep the water from becoming flammable again k? Rather die in a kick-rear end earthquake than Detroit! Rode out the earthquake in 2001, next time I'm gonna do a kickflip.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:57
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The Groper posted:Hey, poo poo posting from detroit bcuz I read you're all gonna die in some giant fuckoff earthquake this century what's up with that/how much is it gonna cost to rebuild/y'all should come move to Detroit and help us keep the water from becoming flammable again k? Sorry, people in the PNW are woodland elves and Detroit is well known gnome country. We would not mesh well.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:22
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The Groper posted:Hey, poo poo posting from detroit bcuz I read you're all gonna die in some giant fuckoff earthquake this century what's up with that/how much is it gonna cost to rebuild/y'all should come move to Detroit and help us keep the water from becoming flammable again k?
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Mar 10, 2017 05:07
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SeaborneClink posted:Okay but do you wish LTD would lick your sweaty shaven nut-sack?
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Mar 10, 2017 06:06
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Mr. Lobe posted:yeah I'm sure he's just a handful of delicate sugar coated words away from becoming an impactful advocate of homeless policy
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Mar 10, 2017 08:36
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I, personally, lust for Quake Death
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Mar 10, 2017 08:56
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twodot posted:Do you think calling out self-absorbed contempt for the downtrodden from people who agree with your policy goals helps or hurts accomplishing your policy goals? "self-absorbed contempt for the downtrodden" Is absolutely poisonous to this: "accomplishing your policy goals" The people who participate in the former cannot hold those views and accomplish the latter. Just like anybody screaming about 'ferners takin are jorbs' will never be anything but an obstacle to providing justice for immigrants. Its a wholly incompatible world view. I'm being harsh, but you really can't do both so fuckin pick one.
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Mar 10, 2017 09:08
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yeah I mean, do you think the civil rights movement would have gotten where it did if it delicately navigated around the racist attitudes of its nominal political allies, or by appealing to the self-interest of people with backwards attitudes when that self-interest happened to coincide with the interests of black liberation? im pretty sure that solidarity is a far more effective basis for a political movement, and you don't get to solidarity by tolerating chauvinism
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Mar 10, 2017 16:04
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hey on a much more positive note, I'm pretty thrilled about this: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/activist-nikkita-oliver-to-run-against-mayor-ed-murray/ nothing gives me more delight than thinking about the SPD squirming under a Mayor Oliver. murray's a piece of poo poo (for instance he has consistently refused to stop the homeless sweeps despite city councilors turning on the practice) and I'd be happy to see him go.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:15
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Mr. Lobe posted:hey on a much more positive note, I'm pretty thrilled about this: I am legit excited just to see her run. She has not only been fighting for Black Lives Matter, but she was there with the DAPL protests/divestment from Wells Fargo, and for immigrants rights on inauguration day. It is going to be a tough fight though. Murray has a ton of money, and the backing of many unions. The good news is that I have seen a lot of positive response to her announcement. Even The Urbanist had good things to say about her running. If a large coalition of different organizations back her, she might actually have a chance of winning.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:22
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There's some real estate up for sale, but it's in southern Oregon http://www.oregonlive.com/hg/index.ssf/2017/03/now_you_can_own_an_entire_sout.html
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Mar 10, 2017 18:00
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Should post it in the climate change prepper thread.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:35
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Jack2142 posted:Thats part of what I meant? Paying police money to go into these camps and clean them outis a giant waste of resources? Paying the fire department to give Narcon to a transient who OD'd and take him to an emergency room which will release them in a few days to the streets without a treatment programjust burns money and doesnt solve anything. King County sheriffs dropping people off in Seattle so they make it Seattles problems are also hosed up. How is saving a life "burning money"?
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Mar 10, 2017 19:48
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HEY NONG MAN posted:How is saving a life "burning money"? Eh. At this point I think it's fair to stop dog-piling on the guy. He seems to have reevaluated his position and expressed contrition.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:58
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Error 404 posted:This: Mr. Lobe posted:yeah I mean, do you think the civil rights movement would have gotten where it did if it delicately navigated around the racist attitudes of its nominal political allies, or by appealing to the self-interest of people with backwards attitudes when that self-interest happened to coincide with the interests of black liberation? HEY NONG MAN posted:How is saving a life "burning money"? twodot fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 20:00
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xrunner posted:Eh. At this point I think it's fair to stop dog-piling on the guy. He seems to have reevaluated his position and expressed contrition. Yeah sorry didn't see so many posts. I GOT ALL EXCITED
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Mar 10, 2017 20:01
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twodot posted:Why can't people on this forum answer a question. You encounter a person saying "Man I really hate my bus service being interrupted, I think we should feed and house the homeless to reduce the number of times my bus service gets interrupted." Do you say "Hell yes, feeding and housing the homeless is good, let's do that" or shout at them for wanting good things for bad reasons? twodot posted:It's burning money when we can get better results (ie treat that person before they OD) for less money. Having firefighters treating people and dumping them in ERs is more expensive than preventative treatment and also has strictly worse outcomes than preventative treatment.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:05
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twodot posted:Why can't people on this forum answer a question. You encounter a person saying "Man I really hate my bus service being interrupted, I think we should feed and house the homeless to reduce the number of times my bus service gets interrupted." Do you say "Hell yes, feeding and housing the homeless is good, let's do that" or shout at them for wanting good things for bad reasons? You're essentially arguing that we should respect the feelings of bigots and assholes by not calling them bigots and assholes.What the hell, man? What about the people who have to endure the abuse from those bigots and assholes? No point in standing up for those people because we'll chase away people who treat them like trash while nominally advocating for issues that aid them?
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Mar 10, 2017 20:08
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