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anthonypants posted:Okay, cool, let's freak out and get all hyperbolic about innocuous statements: xrunner posted:You're essentially arguing that we should respect the feelings of bigots and assholes by not calling them bigots and assholes.What the hell, man? What about the people who have to endure the abuse from those bigots and assholes? No point in standing up for those people because we'll chase away people who treat them like trash while nominally advocating for issues that aid them?
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Mar 10, 2017 20:16
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Yall should get on nextdoor.com and do this to my NIMBY dick neighbors who are all anti homeless and anti safe injection sites in lake city. I can only fight so much "eww homeless people are icky" by myself.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:17
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twodot posted:Where did I say we should abolish reactive treatments? Where did I say firefighter shouldn't be allowed to treat someone with Narcan? Okay. Then what's your point? Jack2142 came in and said some abusive poo poo about the homeless and was called out? He seems to have reevaluated those statements so I think it worked out well. Why are you so insistent in defending people's feelings when they say abusive poo poo? Do you feel threatened because you (1) support assistance for the homeless, and (2) find them to be disgusting subhumans? Is this about your fragility? It's okay, Twodot, you can be a bigot, just don't say bigoted poo poo and support worthwhile causes and nobody will ever hurt you, I promise. silicone thrills posted:Yall should get on nextdoor.com and do this to my NIMBY dick neighbors who are all anti homeless and anti safe injection sites in lake city. I really can't handle nextdoor.com. Honestly, when SA finally dies I think I'm done with internet message boards entirely...
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Mar 10, 2017 20:23
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xrunner posted:Okay. Then what's your point? Jack2142 came in and said some abusive poo poo about the homeless and was called out? He seems to have reevaluated those statements so I think it worked out well. Why are you so insistent in defending people's feelings when they say abusive poo poo? Do you feel threatened because you (1) support assistance for the homeless, and (2) find them to be disgusting subhumans? Is this about your fragility? It's okay, Twodot, you can be a bigot, just don't say bigoted poo poo and support worthwhile causes and nobody will ever hurt you, I promise.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:27
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twodot posted:What do you think Jack2142 said that was abusive? It's been expertly cataloged over a few dozen posts and I don't really feel the need to rehash it. What your responses are telling me is that you disagree that it was abusive at all. You don't have a problem with calling people out for saying abusive poo poo. You have a problem with people being called out for saying the specific poo poo that was said. I think it's fair to infer that this is because you share the view that poverty is disgusting and inconvenient and you're unhappy that people are trying to make you feel bad for dehumanizing others.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:35
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xrunner posted:It's been expertly cataloged over a few dozen posts and I don't really feel the need to rehash it. What your responses are telling me is that you disagree that it was abusive at all. You don't have a problem with calling people out for saying abusive poo poo. You have a problem with people being called out for saying the specific poo poo that was said. I think it's fair to infer that this is because you share the view that poverty is disgusting and inconvenient and you're unhappy that people are trying to make you feel bad for dehumanizing others.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:45
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twodot posted:I'm unhappy that people are prioritizing correct thoughts over actually improving society. People that are gross and inconvenient exist, poverty is a thing that exacerbates gross-ness and inconvenience, these are just facts. The solution to that is to fix poverty not claim that complaining your bus got delayed one time is abusive.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:52
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anthonypants posted:So you're upset that leftists are too concerned with how poor people are treated by individuals, when they should be trying to fix society as a whole instead. Is that correct? Also please answer this question: twodot posted:Where did I say we should abolish reactive treatments? Where did I say firefighter shouldn't be allowed to treat someone with Narcan?
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Mar 10, 2017 20:55
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twodot posted:What? When did we move to how poor people are treated? Who is the person you think is treating poor people badly, and what did they do?
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Mar 10, 2017 20:57
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nah see the road to the promised land is paved by the political momentum of self-interested assholes and the bit tongues of those who find their lovely attitudes toxic and a liability besides also criticism of said assholes is tantamount to thought policing and is counterproductive to "policy"
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Mar 10, 2017 21:20
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Mr. Lobe posted:hey on a much more positive note, I'm pretty thrilled about this: whats even more fun is watching king county dems squirm with the notion that seattle might not have a dem mayor
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Mar 10, 2017 21:21
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Doorknob Slobber posted:whats even more fun is watching king county dems squirm with the notion that seattle might not have a dem mayor hell yeah! if we can get more socialists on city council too, even better. I remember hearing that someone was interested in running for one of the council seats. who knows, maybe this could be another stage in the infancy of an actual labor movement in US electoral politics.
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Mar 10, 2017 21:36
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Also in the spirit of trying to better understand issues are there some good sources on better understanding on what is going on? and what are some organizations people are involved in where I can try to help improve the situation instead of just griping about it? Also stop defending me I can deal with it on my own.
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Mar 10, 2017 21:57
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http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/verdict-second-trial-guilty-patrick-ryan-ehmer-thorn/ Well... at least somebody is going to jail for Malheur. HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 22:01
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I went to a Democratic Socialists event but they tend to be mostly in North Seattle on weeknights so it's all white dudes. I wouldn't mind hearing people's thoughts on where to put our energy.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:02
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Jack2142 posted:Also in the spirit of trying to better understand issues are there some good sources on better understanding on what is going on? and what are some organizations people are involved in where I can try to help improve the situation instead of just griping about it? Tent City Collective is one of the best organizations that is doing concrete work to help the homeless. Largely based on UW, they still are very interested in aid from other people in the community who are willing to help out. Alongside them is the Stop the Sweeps movement, which is a grassroots political body that is actively fighting against municipal actions against the homeless. You could do a lot worse than getting involved with them. In addition, The Neighborhood Action Coalitions are an interesting case: they're a group that is split up by congressional district, so their politics vary, but some of the NACs do a lot of very good work, typically in collaboration with the two organizations listed above. But it's worth mentioning that in terms of spreading the Stop the Sweeps campaign, they have done some of the best work in getting the word out and getting people involved. They may be the best route of approach, though like I said, their politics are not necessarily uniform. If you are genuinely interested I'll make inquiries with the people I know who are more directly involved with them. George posted:I went to a Democratic Socialists event but they tend to be mostly in North Seattle on weeknights so it's all white dudes. I wouldn't mind hearing people's thoughts on where to put our energy. I myself am a member of the International Socialist Organization, which tends to be pretty well connected with the grassroots actions taking place in Seattle. It is through my ISO contacts that I know what I know. We're not that big, but our members tend to be very broadly knowledgeable and highly engaged. If homelessness is your specific point of focus then definitely check out the things I listed above, but if you'd like to get a better sense of what kinds of grassroots actions are taking place generally, you may find us worth checking out. I mean the DSA no ill in saying this (having comrades among them I work with on various things), but we also definitely aren't just a bunch of white dudes. Mr. Lobe fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 22:14
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On that note, tomorrow there is a call to action by Seattle Clinic Defense to defend a Planned Parenthood in Everett tomorrow. The ISO will be doing support work out there (lots of ISO are part of the organizing body of Seattle Clinic Defense anyways) It's a counterprotest against the rotten sorts of people who would protest at Planned Parenthood. Evidently they've got some kind of a "40 days of life" event going on, and they've been ramping up their activity. man phone posting links to things to SA is such a pain, sorry for all the edits Mr. Lobe fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 22:19
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Mr. Lobe posted:I myself am a member of the International Socialist Organization, which tends to be pretty well connected with the grassroots actions taking place in Seattle. It is through my ISO contacts that I know what I know. We're not that big, but our members tend to be very broadly knowledgeable and highly engaged. If homelessness is your specific point of focus then definitely check out the things I listed above, but if you'd like to get a better sense of what kinds of grassroots actions are taking place generally, you may find us worth checking out. I mean the DSA no ill in saying this (having comrades among them I work with on various things), but we also definitely aren't just a bunch of white dudes. Yeah I'm not trying to throw too much shade. They're good folks doing more than I have been and I saw some upcoming events that are a bit more spread out, but I've noticed in photos from the DSA's membership surge around the country that it's 99.9% white and I've finally started to notice poo poo like that.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:31
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Mr. Lobe posted:nah see the road to the promised land is paved by the political momentum of self-interested assholes and the bit tongues of those who find their lovely attitudes toxic and a liability besides But but but puuuuuuuurrrrrity politics
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Mar 10, 2017 23:46
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Jack2142 posted:Also in the spirit of trying to better understand issues are there some good sources on better understanding on what is going on? and what are some organizations people are involved in where I can try to help improve the situation instead of just griping about it? Oh one more thing, if you want to help make some homeless people's lives a hell of a lot miserable and maybe make some friends among anarchist and dissident types, you can also check out Food Not Bombs, who do some real good work getting food out to those who need it most. There's some very good people who work with them, some of whom are very dear to me.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:24
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George posted:I went to a Democratic Socialists event but they tend to be mostly in North Seattle on weeknights so it's all white dudes. I wouldn't mind hearing people's thoughts on where to put our energy. I'm not arguing that the Seattle DSA doesn't have a lot of white dudes, but saying it is all white dudes is really inaccurate.
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Mar 11, 2017 06:46
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Oh, some of the people in the Malheur occupation got convicted earlier today http://koin.com/2017/03/10/split-decision-in-2nd-malheur-occupation-trial/
anthonypants fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 07:41
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Yup! I find it funny that some of them couldn't be proven to have been handling weapons..? Wha? They just showed up to fist-bump with all their whitebro friends who brought guns, yeah loving right - I know white guys who like guns, and those dudes would've been lent a firearm or laughed off the property. Also uhh, Ryan? I think? Bundy has been shown to have contradicted himself under sworn testimony according to some other stories I saw today - about whether or not he'd planned to occupy the malheur facility before they just "spontaneously decided" to do so since they just happened to be chilling in eastern oregon in the dead of winter - as one is wont to do when he has a ranch in another state. This included some other testimonies that Bundy made everybody turn off their phones and laptops and leave them outside the room during the planning, "so nobody gets interrupted by ringtones" during the meeting which didn't happen, which didn't happen before the spontaneously decided to show up with guns and flags and MREs. My favorite part was how Bundy claimed that "federal employees were free to come and continue to perform their jobs" while the place was occupied. 
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Mar 11, 2017 08:01
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Well I was about to go to bed but here's another thing: http://koin.com/2017/03/09/hate-crime-suspect-arab-you-need-to-leave/ quote:Kendall told the arresting officer he saw a “Saddam Hussein-looking guy” and believed a woman in the restaurant was a slave. Kendall told police he went into the restaurant to tell her she was “free to leave.” THIS prizewinner saw a "Saddam Hussein looking guy" 
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Mar 11, 2017 10:35
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Shiroc posted:I'm not arguing that the Seattle DSA doesn't have a lot of white dudes, but saying it is all white dudes is really inaccurate. Look, it was really reductive of me and also an indication of my insecurities as a white dude from North Seattle, but given the current climate I'm gonna look around the room and worry about whose interests I'm fighting for. I know I'm being precious but it's not something I want to ignore anymore.
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Mar 11, 2017 12:06
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coyo7e posted:Well I was about to go to bed but here's another thing: Kill all dudes with buzzcuts, God will know his own and that'll eliminate the majority of racists right there. Bad haircuts and racism go together much to well.
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Mar 11, 2017 14:17
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I'm a white woman member of the DSA. Been for about 2 years now. I basically never show up to any meetings though because last year I hated the local leader for being super pro jill stein but they replaced that guy (I complained to national pretty hard) and now I've been trying to find time to go to meetings but I swear to god every other group has their meetings on the same night as well. Also i've been super sickly for about 6 months. For what I can see, maybe the socialist alternative is less white folk? They were able to get Kshama Sawant and Jayapal elected so at least there's that. I've been tempted to just switch over.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:01
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silicone thrills posted:I'm a white woman member of the DSA. Been for about 2 years now. I basically never show up to any meetings though because last year I hated the local leader for being super pro jill stein but they replaced that guy (I complained to national pretty hard) and now I've been trying to find time to go to meetings but I swear to god every other group has their meetings on the same night as well. Also i've been super sickly for about 6 months.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:19
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George posted:Look, it was really reductive of me and also an indication of my insecurities as a white dude from North Seattle, but given the current climate I'm gonna look around the room and worry about whose interests I'm fighting for. I know I'm being precious but it's not something I want to ignore anymore. The actions that the SDSA has been involved in has been fighting against the homeless sweeps, being present at immigration and BLM protests, donation drive for Mary's Place and supporting the Transit Riders Union's tax initiative. It is also a fairly new chapter, so things are in motion and there is a lot of opportunity to get people together on things. I think you should be willing to reconsider it, but if you're going to look around the room and decide that there aren't enough non-white men for your standards and not want to do anything with the group, then that's up to you.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:47
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Shiroc posted:The actions that the SDSA has been involved in has been fighting against the homeless sweeps, being present at immigration and BLM protests, donation drive for Mary's Place and supporting the Transit Riders Union's tax initiative. It is also a fairly new chapter, so things are in motion and there is a lot of opportunity to get people together on things. I think you should be willing to reconsider it, but if you're going to look around the room and decide that there aren't enough non-white men for your standards and not want to do anything with the group, then that's up to you. I pay into SDSA monthly and still push it to people. I just want to make sure I'm not living in a bubble.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:10
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Relevant Tangent posted:Kill all dudes with buzzcuts, God will know his own and that'll eliminate the majority of racists right there. Bad haircuts and racism go together much to well.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:27
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silicone thrills posted:For what I can see, maybe the socialist alternative is less white folk? They were able to get Kshama Sawant and Jayapal elected so at least there's that. I've been tempted to just switch over. We didn't get Jayapal elected. We tried to get her to run as independent. We don't support the goal of reforming the Democratic Party, but we did endorse Bernie. (We don't really consider him a socialist though.) The org is mostly white (like Seattle), but we are pretty representative of the population with regards to gender. If you really are interested in joining us, shoot me a message and we can meet up and I can tell you more about what we stand for, and what is involved with being a member. We are much smaller than the DSA, but we expect our members to be pretty active.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:41
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George posted:I pay into SDSA monthly and still push it to people. I just want to make sure I'm not living in a bubble. I can understand that, but Seattle is somewhat of a bubble by demographics. It is very expensive and at least based on the census data I found from 2010, the city is more white by a few percentage points than King County on a whole (I didn't see gender data when I was looking). There is actually a recent (and short read) Jacobin article talking this: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/02/left-diversity-people-color-white-identitarian-solidarity-difference/.
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Mar 12, 2017 20:53
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Seattle is pretty white but it's not Portland. Its biggest issue is segregation, which is why someone living in parts of it could be forgiven for thinking so.
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Mar 12, 2017 21:58
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Seattle is only wonderbread white if you only talk to people who consider the region between I-90 and I-405 a Fallujah-like warzone. So, y'know, most white people in Seattle.
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Mar 12, 2017 22:49
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George posted:Seattle is pretty white but it's not Portland. Its biggest issue is segregation, which is why someone living in parts of it could be forgiven for thinking so. Where I live now in Ballard is way more white than where I grew up in around Tacoma and yes the amount of people who think Burien/Federal Way/Auburn etc. are all war-torn ghetto's is really loving weird to me.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:23
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Having grown up in Cleveland, the idea that any part of modern Seattle/Greater Puget Sound being an ultra dangerous, crime-ridden place that decent people need to hide away from is absurd.
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Mar 13, 2017 06:23
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People who poo poo on South Seattle typically have never lived there, don't have any friends who do, and don't work/shop there. They might as well be talking about some other state in a different country.
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Mar 13, 2017 06:34
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Ballard and Phinney are way whiter than they were when I was growing up there in the 80s and 90s. Northgate is ever the North's smokescreen, being less white while still having very few black people. I work in Queen Anne, and it's wall-to-wall bougie neoliberalism but at least it's halfway diverse in TYOOL 2017.
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Mar 13, 2017 08:50
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I haven't really left lane county in a decade or more, but I would assert that every area here is becoming more diverse... Very slowly. But the apartments along Gateway used to be like 99% poor white people and now it's actually a neighborhood.
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Mar 13, 2017 11:32
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