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I think it would be good to mod peasant mobs to not cost upkeep. That would make me far more likely to use them.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:29
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Don't peasant mobs cost like 50 gold to hire? I have no idea when anyone would bother to use them since them routing will still inflict moral penalties to your army; if you can't afford even a shieldless men-at-arms unit, you're probably boned anyway.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:50
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toasterwarrior posted:Don't peasant mobs cost like 50 gold to hire? I have no idea when anyone would bother to use them since them routing will still inflict moral penalties to your army; if you can't afford even a shieldless men-at-arms unit, you're probably boned anyway. Peasent mobs have the expendable trait, meaning nobody cares if they get slaughtered. At least thats what I thought "expendable" meant.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:56
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toasterwarrior posted:Don't peasant mobs cost like 50 gold to hire? I have no idea when anyone would bother to use them since them routing will still inflict moral penalties to your army; if you can't afford even a shieldless men-at-arms unit, you're probably boned anyway. It would be best if they didn't take recruitment slots to get. So you could whip up a 20 stack in one turn but they'd be lovely peasant mobs The green list of traits on the card are just suggestions, not mechanically significant. "Expendable" just means "This unit is lovely and cheap, throw it away on a whim", it still impacts morale
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Mar 10, 2017 19:57
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Peasant Mobs cost about 20 gold to hire and 52 upkeep. And I've noticed that they can sometimes only take 1 turn on global recruitment too, so you can quickly hire like 8 of them in one turn, then disband after a battle.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:02
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Aurubin posted:This is a little Orion is not a fan of the Fae Enchantress. There is one Queen in the Wood, and it is Ariel. A mortal upstart claiming to be Ariel's 'incarnation' is kind of a smack in his eternally reincarnating frat-elf-with-an-army face. Durthu, meanwhile, will gladly promise to kill anyone who will help him purge the mammals from his woods last.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:13
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but the Fay Enchantress being at war with the Wood Elves makes almost as little sense as them being in a military alliance with Clan Angrund. MY LORE!
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Vlex posted:I think I may have posted this before in this very thread, but the Albion campaign for WHFB gave some pretty heavy hints that it shared a universe with 40k - some of the loot gained by various factions were a 1 for 1 substitute for 40k wargear (e.g. a glove that ignored armour and gave the bearer S10 attacks, but they always struck last, aka a Space Marine powerfist). aeons ago in warhammer v2, the expansion Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness gave options for gifts from khorne khorne would straight-up gift you warhammer 40k weapons; one of the models features in white dwarf was a chaos champion with an autopistol, who made it into the Top Trumps cards that got released in the 80s 
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Mar 10, 2017 20:26
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:aeons ago in warhammer v2, the expansion Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness gave options for gifts from khorne Ah, memories. edit: I think Warhammer 2nd edition was the one with Elementals, which could solo armies.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:33
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Fangz posted:think of it as an added freebie on top of building your stable en route to getting demigriffs or whatever. The point is that there's no opportunity costs to anything, you are never giving anything up to get this stuff, and the per-requisites are all things you should get over the course of the campaign. They do add up, bit by bit, making your armies better over time. If you ever run out of things to research you've messed up, and having to pick the less good stuff because you have nothing good to research is basically a soft-failure. It's not truly a freebie though as it still requires a building in order to make it available. The Vampires and Dwarf tech trees are freebies as their technology costs nothing* and requires nothing to unlock. Really my complaint just comes down to requiring buildings in order to begin researching. It's a very significant time investment even if it will all happen naturally over the course of a campaign. *except for certain techs Kitchner posted:The fact that the techs are tied to buildings is probably the most annoying bit of the Empire tech tree to be honest. Agreed, it be a neat twist if the Empire could research technology simultaneously in separate chains. Or give Empire Wizards Inquiring Minds in their blue skill tree.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:46
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Sasgrillo posted:It's not truly a freebie though as it still requires a building in order to make it available. The Vampires and Dwarf tech trees are freebies as their technology costs nothing* and requires nothing to unlock. Really my complaint just comes down to requiring buildings in order to begin researching. It's a very significant time investment even if it will all happen naturally over the course of a campaign. It's not a 'time investment' because you aren't neglecting something else. You aren't going out of your way to get it. It just unlocks relatively late for some techs. You are far more free to pick and choose techs, like say upgrades to swordsmen (that depend simply on you building the building to recruit a swordsman) than the dwarf tech that are buried deeply in the dwarf tree, that would make you necessarily choose to neglect various economic techs to pick up military ones. In most cases the prerequisites are essentially just 'to upgrade unit X, ensure you can recruit it'. Like you mention the VC system but the VC system is basically the empire system but worse. Instead of a multi-use building, you have to invest money specifically in unlocking a set of technologies. And then within a set you need to pass specific prerequisites to unlock the better techs. Fangz fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 21:02
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Had a giant clusterfuck of a battle vs Mousillon today. 3000 vs 7200. And of course my reinforcing army is the main Fay Enchantress + Green Knight one bc gently caress you ai, and it comes on at a bizarre angle directly into a forest. The two bigger stacks and the Red Duke bumrushed while I tried to deploy them and it was just a huge brawl in the forest while my starting armies peasants charged the flank and its knights rode around for a rear charge. Ramirez and Moralez got on that trebuchet and pulled through, and while I took way more casualties than I would have if the reinforcement system didn't suck and the 40 unit interface was reasonable, I killed all of Mousillon's armies in one go, and it was all worth it for the final, giant lance crashing into the last and smallest army, with the heroes waaay out in front. It's adorable that the first into the fray besides the two champions of Bretonnia were a battered group of yeoman cav, feels right. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/88223231237768884/CF7EC2D228F4D9D304AC724CFF7BFCC6E795C47C/ http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/88223231237769536/3652BFE8E2429CE9787E93D8A651657E28496D58/ http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/88223231237768727/CDC39315C3B21CF438ADC6DC155A1AB70F9D6828/ Also shoutout to the brave footsloggers. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/88223231237769677/70FD5F8863E4218BC7F8FD36573244D176D41A7F/ Finally have a united Bretonnia with a strong economy and Louen had the courtesy to take Marienburg before I annexed him. Sadly my Wood Elf allies immediately decced on the Empire, Tilea, AND Clan Angrund afterwards, because I'm still too stupid to keep it at a defensive alliance. Bright side, breaking my alliance treaties made all the other good guy factions like me a lot more. Totes gonna stab the fuckers in the back if the Empire starts killing them, which I expect it will since they're not fighting anyone else.
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Mar 10, 2017 21:34
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I just picked up this game. Like playing as dwarves so far but we'll see. I see a lot of the paid dlc is ridiculously priced. Are the elevens worth it? i have just enough steambux to get them. If I decide I enjoy this game long term should i get them? I'm only into day 2 of this game and while its better than a lot of TW games, with dwarves i get my rear end stomped in my orcs with swirling green masses and before i know it i dont have enough money to even raise an army in retaliation so I dont know why i'd go and pay for another race right now i've notived this gme is kind of lacking... sieges. or i've yet to encounter one, despite you know, conquering mutliple cities, those battles are always pitched on pretty flat terrain 99% of the time. Riot Bimbo fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 22:06
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basic hitler posted:I just picked up this game. Like playing as dwarves so far but we'll see. I see a lot of the paid dlc is ridiculously priced. You haven't attacked a walled settlement yet, they are denoted by having little wall-turrets along their name-tags, your capital Karaz-a-Karak starts with walls, as do any other provincial capital. Once you attack one of those you'll see a wall and a city beyond it on the battlemap. As a person who've made 20 mods for the game and played over 1100 hours.. well.. i mean.. for me almost all the DLC is priced fairly, you pay for what you want and you get what you pay for basically. The only exception to this is the Chaos DLC, this is just my opinion but right now its not worth its pricetag because if you're a newbie player you're going to go up against "initial dlc" woes that the developers figured out better with the later DLCs. For now i think you should stick to the base game, play all the factions available and see what you like about them. If you feel Dwarfs is too much pressure try Vampire Counts as they are more or less left alone after you deal with the initial hostile vampires around you.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:37
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Chaos dlc sucks, only get that if you play mp. Beastmen I'm mild on, never really cared for their game style but ymmv. Everything else was worthwhile
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Mar 10, 2017 22:55
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Beastmen are good and fun and different to play as. However chaos is just completely miserable to play as
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Mar 10, 2017 23:04
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I think an important addendum here is that Chaos is fun to play as on the battle map. It's their campaign mechanics that blow rear end, not their units or anything. Also I think it speaks to this game's quality that whenever people ask me what, specifically, is wrong with Chaos campaigns, my usual response is "They're very restrictive and play like an old school total war horde faction in a game where everyone else has cool, unique, and achievable objectives." Even with the recent crowding issues screwing with certain starts, CA really knocked it out of the park with this one. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 23:12
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Fangz posted:
I don't quite trust that math. A Lord that can just wander about from one town to the next is a Lord that is not really needed. At the point you save 1500 Gold per turn from 10% building costs an additional Lord might cost that amount in additional upkeep.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:24
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All DLC is great IMO except chaos. I don't think $15 / ea is that unreasonable. Thinking about the expansion packs of old for RTS, they'd normally add a faction or 2 for $30, and we've had 15 years of inflation and skyrocketing development costs. Package up Wood Elves, Beastmen, Wurrzag, Vlad, and Isabella and call it 'Expansion One'. It compares pretty favorably to Yuri's Revenge or Brood War or Tales of Valor. (it doesn't compare well to Rise of Nations: Thrones and Patriots, but then again nothing does) The game is fun as hell even without DLC. Eela6 fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 23:37
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Beastmen are good and fun and different to play as. However chaos is just completely miserable to play as Look-up Gejnor's Chaos mod on steam - it really minimizes the tedium and bullshit of managing the Chaos campaign. Chaos can actually be fun!
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Mar 10, 2017 23:47
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Psycho Landlord posted:I think an important addendum here is that Chaos is fun to play as on the battle map. It's their campaign mechanics that blow rear end, not their units or anything. Well see heres where i kind of sort of disagree as well. Chaos is fine on the battlemap if you're facing a straight up fight but if theres any mounted skirmishers of any kind, any kiting.. well.. you're going to be in a world of hurt. Chaos is generally slow and its tools for dealing with mounted skirmishers is to use their own mounted skirmishers, dogs and the one arty you have. Your mounted skirmishers kinda suck for attacking other skirmirshers, your dogs are too slow even with poison and the tech that gives them +10% speed.. It looks great on paper when your dogs are at 102 movement speed but for some reason they just don't seem to be able to close the gap quickly enough on those 92 speeded skirmishers, instead what happens is they just keep chasing forever. Your arty is late game unless you rush for it and imo you should rush for chaos warriors asap as many people mention here or if you pick Sigvald you start with one, but one arty is not enough when the computer is spamming skirmishers. And this happens a lot early on for chaos, both in Norsca and against the empire-likes. In essence you'll win the battles when you face skirmisher heavy armies but it'll be like pulling teeth, i.e its not very fun. Or you autoresolve all the battles and then it takes away from the enjoyment of battles. Im sure im gonna get looks for this but i generally mod in the gor building line from beastmen so i can get access to ungor raiders for chaos, it just reduces the pain when you're facing those skirmishers because the hard counter to them is something ranged. Also no, it doesn't feel like this when you play Vampire Counts, they have almost the same tools (though bats are better than dogs att dealing with skirmishers so theres that) but they dont feel horrible to play when you face an army heavy in skirmishers. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 23:47
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genericnick posted:I don't quite trust that math. A Lord that can just wander about from one town to the next is a Lord that is not really needed. At the point you save 1500 Gold per turn from 10% building costs an additional Lord might cost that amount in additional upkeep. That's why you use a hero with fixed upkeep, such as a wizard.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:48
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genericnick posted:I don't quite trust that math. A Lord that can just wander about from one town to the next is a Lord that is not really needed. At the point you save 1500 Gold per turn from 10% building costs an additional Lord might cost that amount in additional upkeep. fire and you can hire and fire in 5 turns for free.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:54
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Kaza42 posted:It would be best if they didn't take recruitment slots to get. So you could whip up a 20 stack in one turn but they'd be lovely peasant mobs I'm 99% sure that expendable units like zombies goblins and low tier peasants don't impact overall morale if they get poo poo on, otherwise losing 1000 of them would cause a chain route.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:58
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genericnick posted:I don't quite trust that math. A Lord that can just wander about from one town to the next is a Lord that is not really needed. At the point you save 1500 Gold per turn from 10% building costs an additional Lord might cost that amount in additional upkeep. Your lords will generally not all be fighting every single turn. Your castellan engineer will probably be more useful in the earlier game than later on - because being able to get income up faster earlier helps your economy snowball. He probably won't be far away from where building/rebuilding is being done if you do things right, for example if you are using him to ferry units around to the front lines. And yeah you can fire if the upkeep is really an issue.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:00
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I'm 99% sure that expendable units like zombies goblins and low tier peasants don't impact overall morale if they get poo poo on, otherwise losing 1000 of them would cause a chain route. Routing goblins impose the same "friends routing" leadership penalty as anything else.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:03
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So yesterday I learned that my processor can't handle 7 CPU armies and me on the screen. Was still fun, even in stop motion. The AI actually played the Bretonnians well, sacrificing most of their infantry to bog down the Skaelings while their cavalry and reinforcing armies took care of the enemy reinforcements and mopped up what remained.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:08
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I'm 99% sure that expendable units like zombies goblins and low tier peasants don't impact overall morale if they get poo poo on, otherwise losing 1000 of them would cause a chain route. loosing 5 units of zombies in quick succession can certainly cause a route. Loosing your summoned zombies can cause your lord to route.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:09
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Beastmen DLC is the best: Edit: Also, minotaurs loving ROCK!
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Mar 11, 2017 00:10
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Speaking of Beastmen, a horde of them decided they would kick over my treehouse. I kicked over their horde.  These two lords were part of a large reinforcement that came in for the first group (all bodies lying on the ground). They died instantly, and their armies routed simultaneously.  I've always been a massive fan of arrow volleys in games. I have no idea why, but Elven DLC did not disappoint. Not even once.   Fresh archers in the shot were the reinforcement who just made it into range after the first horde died.  And elves of course just leave their glowsticks littering the field for someone else to clean up. loving Elves. Should I just skip on regular Glade Guard and stick with the special arrow variants? Are Waywatchers worth using overall compared to the others?
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Mar 11, 2017 00:31
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Regular glade guard are cheaper; poison has diminishing returns after a while. It is often better to deploy more, cheaper armies, rather than fewer, better ones. Waywatchers are powerful skirmishers who don't have enough ammo. Work well in tandem with wild riders.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:36
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Gejnor posted:Well see heres where i kind of sort of disagree as well. Chaos is fine on the battlemap if you're facing a straight up fight but if theres any mounted skirmishers of any kind, any kiting.. well.. you're going to be in a world of hurt. Chaos is generally slow and its tools for dealing with mounted skirmishers is to use their own mounted skirmishers, dogs and the one arty you have. My usual methods for dealing with skirmishers as Chaos have always been super micro-intensive and involve using hounds, knights, or chariots to pincer people until I get around to popping some Dragon Ogres in (you're right, single units of Hounds can't seem to catch Marauder horsemen reliably, but Shaggoths seem to be able to just fine, and Emp pistoliers are slower than Marauders), which is cool with me but I get that a lot of people would find that annoying. I think that every faction has one or two others that are just super loving annoying to fight with their normal rosters (Dwarves for a lot of Empire players, Welves for pretty much everyone, etc) it's really just that Chaos starts out right in the middle of the one most suited to annoying the poo poo out of them, and unfortunately you're kind of stuck dealing with that at campaign start because there's not really anywhere else you can safely go while you build up.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:39
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BadOptics posted:Beastmen DLC is the best: hehehe this is still my proudest screenshot so far. I think the Chaos roster is fun as hell, but yeah the campaign is a bit poo poo, it's a shame.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:45
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I remember hearing about a mod that made the AI more likely to actually attack cities they were besieging rather than just waiting for everyone to starve, but I can't find anything like that in Workshop searches. Does it just have a name I wouldn't expect and, if so, does anyone remember what it was?
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Mar 11, 2017 00:49
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For chaos v scrims just get behind warriors with shields and they'll run out of ammo and suicide, only killing a turn of replenishment.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:57
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:hehehe this is still my proudest screenshot so far. I think the Chaos roster is fun as hell, but yeah the campaign is a bit poo poo, it's a shame. The proper Chaos campaign is called Beastmen.
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Mar 11, 2017 01:10
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:hehehe this is still my proudest screenshot so far. I think the Chaos roster is fun as hell, but yeah the campaign is a bit poo poo, it's a shame. The best screenshot you posted that I remember was one of Kholek entering a city and being like... silhouetted in the gate. It was extremely good. Wish I'd saved it.
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Mar 11, 2017 01:21
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Gejnor posted:Well see heres where i kind of sort of disagree as well. Chaos is fine on the battlemap if you're facing a straight up fight but if theres any mounted skirmishers of any kind, any kiting.. well.. you're going to be in a world of hurt. Chaos is generally slow and its tools for dealing with mounted skirmishers is to use their own mounted skirmishers, dogs and the one arty you have. The big secret to countering skirmishers as chaos is that horse masters are loving great and stomps all over all types of ranged units, barring perhaps large blobs of dawi or kiting glade riders. Sure, chaos knights are great as shock cav but they are slow, tire easily, expensive, slow to recruit and not readily available. Horse masters however has the speed and lung capacity of a doped tibetan race horse, decent melee + charge stats, cost pennies, and are readily available even for newbie hordes. On top of this they are ranged and can easily kite whatever they can't kill with cycle charging.
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Mar 11, 2017 01:28
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Chaos warriors dump all over pistoleers with their 2 AP damage and silver shields, not until tier 3.5 can empire field good AP, just go south after demolishing the Marauder building and getting the chaos warrior chain. You can swarm low tier wall defense easily too until cannons. This also prevents the agent spam by killing spam sources.
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Mar 11, 2017 01:46
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Screenshot bomb incoming. The brettonian peasants' lines are so drat charming. Also, I use a mod that makes Carcassone have a different colour scheme and a unicorn banner instead of the Duchy of Carcassone official scheme because I like to imagine the faction is some kind of popular religious movement preaching True Knighthood and not treating peasants like crap. That's why she starts out with only peasants and super Grail Knights. As she starts kicking rear end and saving Bretonnia eventually the lords flock to her, finally the king himself, and a new age of constitutional magical monarchy blooms. "Use your silver mirror!" yelled as if to the Fay Enchantress as she squares off with a necromancer in the thick of the melee.  One of them also said it here. I like to think the guy turning away to the left has a pocket silver mirror he's about to fumble for.  "The Lady's Damsels are with US!" as she explodes the necromancer and some of his friends while also healing them up with an overcasted regrowth.  "There go our lieges, my they remember us in the hereafter!"  "Behold the power of Bretonnia!"  Throughout this 2k v 7k clusterfuck there was a lot of cool poo poo, a giant scrum in the woods that ended up being desperate units of peasants around a grail reliquae on one side, many units holding almost to a man, "For the Lady!"   with the help of Bretonnia's finest champions, who I panicked slammed into the thick of things as a huge grave guard horde appeared in the woods. I like to think the Grail Guardians adopted the dead stump with the Enchantress's life magic blooming from it as their arms.   The Green Knight was riding back and forth in the distance of almost every zoom in, as you can imagine when the fate of Bretonnia was at stake.  Duke Bohemond of Bastonne, a lovely AI-specced Lord who I only fielded cuz he came with badass Questing Knights and was my only Questing Vow lord at the time, was unhorsed by the brutal Strigoi Ghoul King. His knights came to the rescue- only to find him standing over its corpse. (He actually just didn't get given a horsie by the AI and I didn't notice until he was charging in amongst the cavalry, but in my head he was unhorsed and you can bet he got one from that level up.)   Meanwhile, Bohemond's Errant and Questing Knights made a suicide charge into the remaining several thousand undead not piling into the trees, getting bogged down and nearly slaughtered but taking hundreds and hundreds with them.   That mass of troops crumbled at the last minute, with one knight unit wiped and another fleeing with less than ten men. With two lords dead, that could only mean... the Tyrant of Mousillon, the Red Duke himself, was slain? Where has he been this whole time? "By the Lady, about face!"   The brave backline peasants try to bring him down.  But it's no use. One by one each unit is slaughtered. Where are the knights? Where is the army? All hope is lost. Only one archer unit still holds, dedicated to the Enchantress, they've fought by her side since the orcish incursion... but from the woods, only silence.  But then, the thunder of hooves. The surviving knights, high on bloodlust and glory, hear the screams and see the fleeing peasants. They ride out to face this new threat, stumbling and swerving as they surround... Guy the Glorious, Archer of Carcassone, Hero of Bretonnia. With the Lady's chosen incarnations and all the greatest knights left in the realm looking on, he chokeslams the Tyrant of Mousillon, that ancient enemy, to death. He went on to become the first Grail Yeoman, and they say that to this day he rides around in the dumbass sigmarine future, slaying vampires and god-awful rules and lore changes alike.   Behold  the power  of Bretonnia  In memory of the proletarians sent to die in errantry wars. Long live the Revolution, long live the Lady. 
vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 01:51
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Those are rad shots, I like those Bretonnian skeletons!John Charity Spring posted:The best screenshot you posted that I remember was one of Kholek entering a city and being like... silhouetted in the gate. It was extremely good. Wish I'd saved it. This one?  It's probably one of the coolest shots I've gotten thus far.
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Mar 11, 2017 02:00
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