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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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Foxtrot_13 posted:Britain doesn't have a sweet deal with the EU, we are the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU after the Germans. Not that that is a bad thing as the only odd countries on the list of net receivers are Belgium and Luxembourg, the rest are mainly ex-Warsaw pact countries that need the sort of boost that Ireland needed to become a net contributor. If you adjust it to net contributions per capita though the UK hovers around 7th or 8th place behind the other large economies of western European
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Mar 11, 2017 15:49
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spectralent posted:I'm somewhat hopeful the insane expectations for brexit are going to backfire horribly and discredit the reactionary right to the extent the financial crash discredited neoliberalism, but on the other hand that thing about the right never being happy. You're kidding, right? They're already lining up the blame for the inevitable fiasco on people "talking down Britain" and all the Remoaners trying to subvert THE WILL OF 53% ofTHE PEOPLE, and the phtase "stabbed in the back" is already being bandied around. I think it'll be a miracle if we're not straight up Mosleyite by 2020.
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Mar 11, 2017 15:51
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kustomkarkommando posted:I think the rebate was pretty unique
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Mar 11, 2017 15:51
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I don't often agree with jBrereton but I do think he somewhat has a point here. The UK was just the most visible in terms of its snowflakery. Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming the UK was not selfish or did not ruthlessly pursue 'our' (ie: elites) interests - the point is that the other big members did, they just did it at a much earlier stage, with their snowflakey demands actually built into the design of EU instituions/initiatives (such as the design of the Euro to structurally favour Germany, the CAP, the Strasbourg Parliament arrangement, etc), rather than very visibly tagged on at the end through opt-outs and the like. This is why I am skeptical of talk of how the EU will be stronger and more cohesive following the departure of the UK, and how without it holding everyone back they will now FINALLY be able to fix all the problems and transcend into a glorious shared European future. There might now be some token moves toward further integration in some areas, such as military cooperation, but from what I can see the interest in this area is mainly due to the potential for greater free-riding. However, fixing the fundamental structural problems which underpin governance in the EU and Eurozone in particular is not going to happen: it is simply not in the interests of the largest EU members - they do pretty drat well out of the current arrangements and will find new excuses to put off such reforms.
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Mar 11, 2017 15:52
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Tigey posted:I don't often agree with jBrereton but I do think he somewhat has a point here. The UK was just the most visible in terms of its snowflakery.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:02
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Seaside Loafer posted:Alright but now the UK doesn't get a word in it and has just opted out of one of the largest political and economic blocks in the world because it doesn't like people with funny accents.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:03
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The EU is like going out barefoot in winter: it's a really bad idea, your feet will freeze, you'll complain all along "jesus gently caress going out barefoot in winter is really a bad idea, god why didn't I just put on socks, this loving sucks". The thing is when you eventually realise that no EU at all, is like going out naked.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:05
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Tigey posted:I don't often agree with jBrereton but I do think he somewhat has a point here. The UK was just the most visible in terms of its snowflakery. Sure but arguably the bits which the UK had/has exemptions from are very different in character, being opt outs from things that don't benefit/aren't particularly popular anywhere among the 'elite' (the right-wing one, anyhow). Things like more open borders, budget contributions, etc.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:06
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goddamnedtwisto posted:You're kidding, right? They're already lining up the blame for the inevitable fiasco on people "talking down Britain" and all the Remoaners trying to subvert THE WILL OF 53% ofTHE PEOPLE, and the phtase "stabbed in the back" is already being bandied around. As I said, right never being happy. But half the country isn't a minority that blame can be palmed off to to the extent migrants or The Elites can. Plus, a lot of that stuff is going to be bravado while stuff's still looking good because we haven't hit any icebergs yet. A lot of people who were fence sitting or swing voters who're currently happy to be on the winning side and share in the triumph of Sticking It To Brussels are going to be really upset when they realise there were actual consequences, which they were warned about and which all their friends told them were lies or exaggerations. It's not guaranteed but I think if people are ready to capitalise on the "This is not what we were promised" sentiment in two years, they'd have a big shot at reversing our present course. spectralent fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 16:08
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Corbyn really is a stupid old arsehole https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/840586323853529088
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Mar 11, 2017 16:42
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn really is a stupid old arsehole Labour leader says it is not the job of Westminster to prevent Scotland holding another referendum on independence
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Mar 11, 2017 16:50
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Wheat Loaf posted:What do you mean? "What, like the Left will go elsewhere?" has been the international battle cry of centrist-moving scum for decades. The Corbyn supporters who now trot(sky) this line out in defense of his Leave whipping were rightly outraged when the same logic was used to slash spending or cut tax rates or labor rights. For what it's worth, we're seeing the same thing across the pond with social justice issues/"idpol" - because it's not like black people will ever vote Republican.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:51
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jabby posted:Labour leader says it is not the job of Westminster to prevent Scotland holding another referendum on independence Seems like Corbyn enjoys undermining Labour leaders as much as any other member of the PLP.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:00
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Pissflaps posted:Seems like Corbyn enjoys undermining Labour leaders as much as any other member of the PLP. Do you think both Labour in Holyrood and Labour in Westminster should vote against another Scottish referendum? EDIT: Unrelatedly the Telegraph is reporting that cabinet ministers have had to cancel trips because more Tories than expected could be planning to rebel on the Brexit amendments. Could be 'expectation management', but interesting.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:03
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Scottish Labour is dumb though and they'd have a lot more support if they'd never campaigned for the Union.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:08
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I just discovered not only that the lib dems have a party anthem, but that it is scored to the tune of "marching through Georgia", which is an excellent song that should be played loudly during Trump's next visit to the UK. Particularly if Sessions or other delegates from the Deep South join him.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:12
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Paracaidas posted:"What, like the Left will go elsewhere?" has been the international battle cry of centrist-moving scum for decades. The Corbyn supporters who now trot(sky) this line out in defense of his Leave whipping were rightly outraged when the same logic was used to slash spending or cut tax rates or labor rights. I want to be on record as saying it's just as bullshit either way.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:14
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn really is a stupid old arsehole Cool agism you pointless red tory
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Mar 11, 2017 17:26
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I am starting to think Jeremy Corbyn is not a very good politician or leader of the Labour Party
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Mar 11, 2017 17:29
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Beefeater1980 posted:I just discovered not only that the lib dems have a party anthem, but that it is scored to the tune of "marching through Georgia", which is an excellent song that should be played loudly during Trump's next visit to the UK. Particularly if Sessions or other delegates from the Deep South join him.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:31
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Beefeater1980 posted:I just discovered not only that the lib dems have a party anthem, but that it is scored to the tune of "marching through Georgia", which is an excellent song that should be played loudly during Trump's next visit to the UK. Particularly if Sessions or other delegates from the Deep South join him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b15F-_3bdj0 Only instead of sick bball showboating it's milquetoast platitudes, lies and a faint air of desperation.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:45
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spectralent posted:I want to be on record as saying it's just as bullshit either way. The one true and good political opinion. If those you support are willing to sell out a belief held by supporters or a group of their supporters in order to chase electoral success (or defend their chosen one), it's because the only thing that drives them is electoral success or defending the political identity that has coalesced around a single politician/party. It provides the context necessary to discern between "gently caress PLP for being New Labour trash who don't actually give a poo poo about workers and are simply rebranded Tory scum" and "gently caress PLP for opposing Corbyn". Because to the latter group, you can bet your rear end Remoaners are the next enemies.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:48
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jabby posted:Do you think both Labour in Holyrood and Labour in Westminster should vote against another Scottish referendum? What's this obsession with how they vote? So you can hide behind the Tory majority again? There's only one party that benefits from Jeremy being at odds with the Scottish labour leadership (hint: it's not labour).
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Mar 11, 2017 17:53
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big scary monsters posted:I voted remain because I hate the EU and all its inhabitants and thought Britain could do a better job of bringing it down from the inside. You are Sir Humphrey Appleby and I claim my five pounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE
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Mar 11, 2017 17:53
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Paracaidas posted:The one true and good political opinion. If those you support are willing to sell out a belief held by supporters or a group of their supporters in order to chase electoral success (or defend their chosen one), it's because the only thing that drives them is electoral success or defending the political identity that has coalesced around a single politician/party. So the labour party should represent the beliefs of all its supporters however contradictory?
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Mar 11, 2017 18:07
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Paracaidas posted:The one true and good political opinion. If those you support are willing to sell out a belief held by supporters or a group of their supporters in order to chase electoral success (or defend their chosen one), it's because the only thing that drives them is electoral success or defending the political identity that has coalesced around a single politician/party. Are you talking about that Brexit three line whip?
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Mar 11, 2017 18:16
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Owen Jones is off twitter. Can't say I blame him, it must eat away at you after a while. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39242759/owen-jones-quits-social-media-after-threats-of-torture-and-murder
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Mar 11, 2017 18:17
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Coohoolin posted:Scottish Labour is dumb though and they'd have a lot more support if they'd never campaigned for the Union. No they'd not. Scottish Labour's rot is a lot deeper than one issue.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:21
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The UK public is currently living in a fool's paradise where they have no concept of what a fundamental change leaving the EU's going to be and just how much it's going to hurt them. With that said, what do you think people (i.e. me) can do to try and mitigate the damage to themselves? Save as much as possible? Spend like there's no tomorrow? Dig a bomb shelter? I mean, I'm thinking of buying a new place but if the economy's going to go to poo poo, I might as well stick where I am. Any opinions?
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Mar 11, 2017 18:21
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Be ready to start diplomatically phrasing "I told you so", among everything else.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:23
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I don't think it's right for Westminster to block an independence referendum, although I hope it doesn't happen
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Mar 11, 2017 18:23
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spectralent posted:Be ready to start diplomatically phrasing "I told you so", among everything else. This advice is predicated on the idea that Leave voters will accept that their Brexit vote is the reason why everything is going to poo poo and not your Remoaner arse talking Britain down.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:26
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I don't think Westminster should or will block it (though it's not really a 'block' more as a 'fail to agree to give one'), but I think it's reasonable that the timing of it is negotiated, especially if the Brexit negotiations are underway.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:27
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Pistol_Pete posted:The UK public is currently living in a fool's paradise where they have no concept of what a fundamental change leaving the EU's going to be and just how much it's going to hurt them. Develop a taste for human flesh 
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Mar 11, 2017 18:30
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think Westminster should or will block it (though it's not really a 'block' more as a 'fail to agree to give one'), but I think it's reasonable that the timing of it is negotiated, especially if the Brexit negotiations are underway. It's a rough one to time, they'd want it before we leave the eu because they believe they can negotiate staying in if they leave the UK. Naturally the Tories will want the opposite.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:31
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Baron Corbyn posted:This advice is predicated on the idea that Leave voters will accept that their Brexit vote is the reason why everything is going to poo poo and not your Remoaner arse talking Britain down. I don't think most people in the UK are that insane. I think a worryingly large amount of them are, but I think that's still a hard minority, and not even a plurality. I think a majority honestly believe the fantasies that've been peddled and are currently recieving a steady diet of "Everything's looking great! Look how marmite had to stay the same! Please ignore the exit hasn't happened yet!" news that makes them think everything is fine and will continue to be. I expect when things go wrong, there's going to be a lot of confusion and anguish and that when that happens people need to be there to offer another answer to the inevitable "It's because we didn't brexit hard enough!" screed some are going to go with.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:32
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It's hard to conceive how we could brexit harder outside of nuking Brussels
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Mar 11, 2017 18:33
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Pistol_Pete posted:With that said, what do you think people (i.e. me) can do to try and mitigate the damage to themselves? Save as much as possible? Spend like there's no tomorrow? Dig a bomb shelter? I mean, I'm thinking of buying a new place but if the economy's going to go to poo poo, I might as well stick where I am. Any opinions? LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 18:34
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Ive said this before but I'd be happy if there was never another referendum in the U.K. on any question ever again.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:36
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Namtab posted:It's hard to conceive how we could brexit harder outside of nuking Brussels We're actually going to do some negotiating whereas an awful lot of people who write poorly composed letters to local papers want the UK to just show up, shart on the table, and leave, and then refuse any calls about funding or migration treaties. A minority of people think it's actually all really simple and we just need to say we're going and then we're gone and any discussion or formal process is pussyfooting around. I'm reminded of the guy who wrote to our local paper to say that, if the UK just refused to pay the EU anything, the negotiations would be over tomorrow because then the EU couldn't keep negotiations running to keep milking us for more money. Those are the people who're going to argue that Brexit could've been good but we were too "soft".
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Mar 11, 2017 18:38
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