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Shbobdb posted:Straight to the character assassination. You can't assassinate your character since it doesn't actually exist.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 00:57 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 09:06 |
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Shbobdb posted:Straight to the character assassination. "people who vote republican are in fact so evil it blots out everything else they do. me? oh, i volunteer for a failing far-left circlejerk society and do internet activism. my conscience is clear."
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:09 |
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At worst, my activities round down to zero. Republicans do very real harm every day, as "truth is in the middle, both parties are the same" folks like you are being so forcefully reminded in the current administration.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:11 |
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The obvious explanation for why religious people would be more traditional is that religion is traditional and atheism is not, and nowhere has mass atheism been a phenomenon long enough to become traditional and thus for conservatives to flock to it. But this would suggest that religion is ultimately a neutral force rather than an absolutely good or bad one, and most people would rather not think in such a ternary logic.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:11 |
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Brainiac Five posted:The obvious explanation for why religious people would be more traditional is that religion is traditional and atheism is not, and nowhere has mass atheism been a phenomenon long enough to become traditional and thus for conservatives to flock to it. But this would suggest that religion is ultimately a neutral force rather than an absolutely good or bad one, and most people would rather not think in such a ternary logic. You don't think "conservative" ought apply to ancient institutions resistant to change?
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:13 |
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Shbobdb posted:At worst, my activities round down to zero. you cast your vote in 2012 in a way that you knew would make the election of a republican more likely by your completely retarded calculus, the most centrist Obama in 2012 is more moral than you can ever be
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:14 |
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Shbobdb posted:You don't think "conservative" ought apply to ancient institutions resistant to change? I think rigged questions are one of the few good arguments for the death penalty.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:16 |
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Jesus, via Matthew 43 - 48 posted:“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:19 |
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:you cast your vote in 2012 in a way that you knew would make the election of a republican more likely NYC wasn't going to not go Obama. But letting the centrist Dems know that they can't take my vote for granted is an important message. If they had heeded that lesson in '16 and tried to energize their leftist base as opposed to appealing to Republican suburbanites, they would have won.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:19 |
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Shbobdb posted:NYC wasn't going to not go Obama. people who vote (or don't vote) to empower republicans are fundamentally evil though???
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:21 |
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Brainiac Five posted:I think rigged questions are one of the few good arguments for the death penalty. Seriously though, do some research. It isn't leftism that's hostile to religion, it's religion that's hostile to leftism. In America, as Churches go left their membership declines. "Adapt and die" is a very real phenomenon.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:21 |
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reminder that you're dying on this hill to demonstrate your superiority to a hypothetical christian charity lady
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:23 |
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:people who vote (or don't vote) to empower republicans are fundamentally evil though??? Just people who vote Republican. Not voting is bad but not evil. It's not hard.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:24 |
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Shbobdb posted:Just people who vote Republican. Not voting is bad but not evil. what a coincidence that your absolutist moral decree conveniently excludes your own personal activity
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:26 |
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Shbobdb posted:Seriously though, do some research. It isn't leftism that's hostile to religion, it's religion that's hostile to leftism. In America, as Churches go left their membership declines. "Adapt and die" is a very real phenomenon. What a stunning insight! I have been ripped asunder by your logic!
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:26 |
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We need non voters because they are redeemable. It's not that hard to figure out. Republican voters, on the other hand, should be executed.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:28 |
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Shbobdb posted:We need non voters because they are redeemable. It's not that hard to figure out. Republican voters, on the other hand, should be executed. it's me, the morals man
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:28 |
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Nothing immoral about smashing the olds and removing reactionaries through violent class struggle.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:30 |
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Shbobdb posted:Nothing immoral about smashing the olds and removing reactionaries through violent class struggle. it's me, the mass-murder morals man
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:31 |
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Shbobdb posted:How am I helping get Trump elected? (It's not like one single vote even mattered, like ever.) Shbobdb posted:why not stand for something? Dr. Fishopolis posted:You're really, really, really stretching here. And I meant "tacit toleration" because there is a difference between what you can read into the Bible, and what you really can't avoid. Like, there's a bunch of rather explicit laws: thou shall not kill, love your neighbor as you love yourself, unless your neighbor looks at your sheep in a funny way, in which case you murder his household, that sort of stuff. But there's no explicit "thou shall keep thy neighbor as thine slave" command. Paulus is commenting on specific problems arising within the Roman world; that doesn't mean he thinks this is what society should look like. So you can still blame him for not opposing this evil, but I don't think it's appropriate to say he's "pro slavery".
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:31 |
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I agree, the individual is quite powerless. That's why it's important for the groups we join as individuals to not be those that actively aid and support evil. If you join institutions that support xenophobia, wars of choice, racism and economic injustice you are supporting evil. You are evil.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:36 |
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Shbobdb posted:It isn't leftism that's hostile to religion, it's religion that's hostile to leftism. In America, as Churches go left their membership declines. "Adapt and die" is a very real phenomenon.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:37 |
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Shbobdb posted:I agree, the individual is quite powerless. That's why it's important for the groups we join as individuals to not be those that actively aid and support evil. what if you propose the death of tens of millions of people as part of your political platform (it's you, you're the mass murderer)
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:37 |
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Cingulate posted:This one read more like a weirdly sex-negative thing to me than allowing men to cheat on their wives. That's one of many quotes where weird sex things just so happen to never mention that male infidelity is a also a bad thing. It's bad enough that sleeping with that cheating woman later also constitutes adultery for her new partner. It's almost like women's "purity" was more important than men's, and that theme exists throughout the entire Bible, and still functions in most Christian sects today. Jesus never said that slavery was a bad thing, despite moralizing in most of his sermons. Also the surrounding writings in both Old Testament and New promote slavery as an acceptable culture norm. This was the prevailing theocratic consensus until the 18th century, and it's disingenuous to claim that there was some overarching abolitionist movement from early Christians to the Enlightenment. This also constitutes more of the rhetorical shifting I was mentioning. Jesus was God, and therefore would never do something like accept slavery as an ok norm. He spoke spiritually about the liberation of the soul and God's equal love for all people. So of course it's not fair to say that Jesus was cool with slavery. But when the Bible says slavery is ok, that's just a social structure issue in that the Roman and ancient cultures had slavery all over the place and that was a reality of society. You get to have it both ways every time, and that's why atheists have an issue with religious arguments.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:37 |
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Bolocko posted:This is more complicated, and the Christianity thread was just talking about this very thing the other day. Go check it out. In the meantime, one quick reason for declining membership is that liberalizing churches, in the name of disrupting some old order, tend to also adopt very bad aesthetics in addition to watering down the Christian message. And by watering down I mean stuff like "I'm OK, you're OK, we're all OK; I mean we're sinners, sure, but we're OK. We love everyone! Here's a sports analogy!" all relayed in a room that looks like a cafeteria with pews. So you end up with a toothless institution unable to enact positive change. Why should we try to rehabilitate it?
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:44 |
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Shbobdb posted:So you end up with a toothless institution unable to enact positive change. reminder that you support the execution of tens of millions of people
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:46 |
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Renouncing their reactionary views in struggle sessions has prevented and hopefully will prevent unnecessary deaths. Advances in agriculture will also help prevent some of the more regrettable episodes.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:49 |
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I'm not sure I get what point exactly you're making. I see my argument didn't convince you, but what exactly would you say? That the Bible is pro-slavery? That Jesus was?Shbobdb posted:I agree, the individual is quite powerless. That's why it's important for the groups we join as individuals to not be those that actively aid and support evil. And really, how much do you think your individual contribution to e.g. the Dems matters? Divide your vote by 60 million, and then throw it away, because you lost. So what's your impact on the world? How does this really compare to somebody who saves 12 children from going blind due to a neglected tropical disease by contributing to Sightsavers?
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:55 |
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Bolocko posted:This is more complicated, and the Christianity thread was just talking about this very thing the other day. Go check it out. In the meantime, one quick reason for declining membership is that liberalizing churches, in the name of disrupting some old order, tend to also adopt very bad aesthetics in addition to watering down the Christian message. And by watering down I mean stuff like "I'm OK, you're OK, we're all OK; I mean we're sinners, sure, but we're OK. We love everyone! Here's a sports analogy!" all relayed in a room that looks like a cafeteria with pews. Having read through it, it seems like people are having a hard time reconciling their political views with their Church. It's a classic issue with the existentialist underpinnings of our postmodern society. "Experience precedes essence" so you end up with a bunch of leftists trying to read or create leftism in a reactionary system and failing to do so or succeeding only insofar as they create a personal vanity project. They'd be better off putting down their bibles, staying away from their congregations and doing pretty much anything else.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 01:58 |
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Please note also that while religious liberal/conservative and American political liberal/conservative categories often overlap, they are very different things. EDIT: Shbobdb posted:They'd be better off putting down their bibles, staying away from their congregations and doing pretty much anything else. Bolocko fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 12, 2017 |
# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:00 |
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Shbobdb posted:Renouncing their reactionary views in struggle sessions has prevented and hopefully will prevent unnecessary deaths. Norman Borlaug posted:Civilization as it is known today could not have evolved, nor can it survive, without an adequate food supply. Yet food is something that is taken for granted by most world leaders despite the fact that more than half of the population of the world is hungry. Man seems to insist on ignoring the lessons available from history.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:06 |
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Bolocko posted:Please note also that while religious liberal/conservative and American political liberal/conservative categories often overlap, they are very different things. Though as you seem to have agreed, religious institutions are overwhelmingly conservative and what liberal institutions exist are either held together by outside forces (such as racism) or are failing spectacularly. Believe what you want in private. Nobody cares.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:09 |
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Cingulate posted:I'm not sure I get what point exactly you're making. I see my argument didn't convince you, but what exactly would you say? That the Bible is pro-slavery? That Jesus was? I was responding to an assertion that Christianity was the impetus for abolition. I was arguing that isn't the case, and it's kind of bullshit to imply that when Christianity was a pillar holding up institutional slavey in the West. I would actually say that the Bible is definitely pro-slavery. There is a mountain of textual and historical evidence that supports this. By extension, Jesus was also an enabler of slavery. He had many opportunities to speak out against the evils of slavery, but didn't. He also supported the traditions of the Hebrew people, despite explicitly changing some practices, like sacrifices. I wouldn't say Jesus was going around promoting the enslavement of people, but he certainly didn't seem to be against it either.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:10 |
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I agreed to no such thing.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:11 |
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Shbobdb posted:Nothing immoral about smashing the olds and removing reactionaries through violent class struggle. You really, really, really need to go back and reread the history of the French revolution. "Like Saturn, the Revolution devours its children.”
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:11 |
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Bolocko posted:I agreed to no such thing. So you think that despite liberal churches failing hard, somehow the church as an institution isn't conservative? I'm not sure how to square that circle.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:13 |
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Shbobdb posted:So you think that despite liberal churches failing hard, somehow the church as an institution isn't conservative? I'm not sure how to square that circle. What do you say? RasperFat posted:I was responding to an assertion that Christianity was the impetus for abolition.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:16 |
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RasperFat posted:I was responding to an assertion that Christianity was the impetus for abolition. I was arguing that isn't the case, and it's kind of bullshit to imply that when Christianity was a pillar holding up institutional slavey in the West. The pillar holding up institutional slavery in the West, and in fact the entire world, is the human desire to have other humans do your chores and work for you.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:20 |
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Cingulate posted:
I'm not enough of a Biblical scholar to cite scripture, but it's worth noting that as early as Tertullian we have records of the Church speaking out against abortion: quote:In our case, murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the foetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to the birth. That is a man which is going to be one; you have the fruit already in the seed.
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:23 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 09:06 |
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Cingulate posted:I would say Norman Borlaug was a better man than Lenin. You are really grasping at straws here, aren't you?
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# ? Mar 12, 2017 02:25 |