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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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jre posted:Does anyone think May will agree to another referendum ? I don't Either good or bad she can point to the UK still being a viable nation that tries its best to work in their interests, or that Scotland is in for a similar shitstorm leaving the UK followed by the ECB telling them they have to cut the budget 20% to get in, if the Spanish will even let them.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:19
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jre posted:Does anyone think May will agree to another referendum ? I don't I imagine she will in the end. Unless Brexit is so bad as to mean we might actually win independence this time.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:20
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CommieGIR posted:
Because leaving your most important economic trading block is a bad idea. Why do you think its a bad idea for the UK, but a good idea for Scotland?
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Mar 13, 2017 14:20
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Why do you think Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU?
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Leggsy posted:I don't think anyone here wants Brexit to fail, doesn't mean it's not going to. Not sure about 'here' as in this thread but I can imagine this attitude Leggsy posted:It would just give more time for the disaster to set in and make a Yes vote more likely. to be common.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:23
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Pissflaps posted:Because leaving your most important economic trading block is a bad idea. Because Scotland is trying to stick with a larger trading group versus a small, distinct trading partner like the UK. During the last referendum, studies showed that cutting ties with the UK would lead to a 5% reduction. That, versus the massive reduction that leaving the EU will cause.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:23
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and england + wales gonna be broke as gently caress when they leave the EU lol
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Mar 13, 2017 14:24
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Pissflaps posted:Not sure about 'here' as in this thread but I can imagine this attitude I don't see anything in my post suggesting that I want Brexit to fail. Just that allowing it's failure to manifest will make a Yes vote more likely.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:25
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Leggsy posted:I don't think anyone here wants Brexit to fail, doesn't mean it's not going to.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:25
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CommieGIR posted:Because Scotland is trying to stick with a larger trading group versus a small, distinct trading partner like the UK. The UK is far more important market for Scotland than the EU is.  CommieGIR posted:During the last referendum, studies showed that cutting ties with the UK would lead to a 5% reduction. That, versus the massive reduction that leaving the EU will cause. Why will leaving the EU cause a 'massive reduction' but leaving the UK is so minimal? Does this make sense to you? Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 14:27
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Leggsy posted:I don't see anything in my post suggesting that I want Brexit to fail. Just that allowing it's failure to manifest will make a Yes vote more likely. I meant specifically the attitude that the worse Brexit is, the more likely people are to vote Yes.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:28
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Brexit should be delayed until after the Scottish independence question is settled. After all what's more important: the fundamental makeup of our great Union, or a bunch of vague promises we made to the frogs and krauts that we don't really intend to keep to anyway?
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Mar 13, 2017 14:29
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jBrereton posted:I think she probably will, because we don't want a minor land war what
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Mar 13, 2017 14:29
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jre posted:what Tensions are high!
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Mar 13, 2017 14:31
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This will be a big factor in the Sinners' timing of a border poll for Northern Ireland.jre posted:what hi
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Mar 13, 2017 14:31
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jBrereton posted:The SNP doesn't want to remould Scotland, it wants things to continue as they are, where they are more or less the only party, and they are given shitloads of money by someone else. Doesn't matter if it's the UK government and EU, or just the EU. I don't think the SNP believe that things can continue as they are anymore. Might have been the case in 2014 but Brexit has re-contextualised everything. Pissflaps posted:I meant specifically the attitude that the worse Brexit is, the more likely people are to vote Yes. Considering that the blame for a Brexit failure will likely fall entirely upon the UK government. I don't see why that's an unreasonable assertion to make.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:34
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jBrereton posted:Not like nationalism/unionism couldn't turn very nasty very quickly in Scotland if the SNP was just told directly to gently caress off by the UK government. No true Scotsman would stoop to violence over matters of petty tribalism.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:34
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big scary monsters posted:No true Scotsman would stoop to violence over matters of petty tribalism. Leggsy posted:I don't think the SNP believe that things can continue as they are anymore. Might have been the case in 2014 but Brexit has re-contextualised everything.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:38
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https://twitter.com/Aidan___Kerr/status/841274889948545024
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Mar 13, 2017 14:41
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Leggsy posted:I don't think the SNP believe that things can continue as they are anymore. Might have been the case in 2014 but Brexit has re-contextualised everything. I hope you are right but I've seen very little evidence of the SNP being particularly interested in progressive change. Especially now they are getting comfortable as the establishment party in Scotland, a position they've had for a decade now & which doesn't look like changing any time soon. jBrereton posted:So you're saying the violence will happen in Edinburgh... interesting... Best post in the thread imo. Any insult towards Edinburgh is a good post.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:41
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jBrereton posted:Not like nationalism/unionism couldn't turn very nasty very quickly in Scotland if the SNP was just told directly to gently caress off by the UK government. quote:Tensions are high!
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Mar 13, 2017 14:42
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Was this being disputed?
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Mar 13, 2017 14:43
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Leggsy posted:Was this being disputed? Did I say it was? Your defensiveness is telling.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:44
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jre posted:gently caress all would happen other than I'd have another two years of reading whining posts from people with 45 in their profile picture on Facebook. I can't see a civil war happening, that's just video game fantasy nonsense, but refusing to allow another referendum would have consequences. Even if it's just strengthen the desire for independence in the long run.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:45
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Just found it weird that you posted a tweet on something that no one was disputing with no context. I also find it weird that you find people engaging with a post as "defensive". Would you prefer if I said nothing?
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Mar 13, 2017 14:46
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Leggsy posted:Just found it weird that you posted a tweet on something that no one was disputing with no context. I also find it weird that you find people engaging with a post as "defensive". Would you prefer if I said nothing? He loves strawmanning only slightly more than he hates Corbyn.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:47
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Leggsy posted:Just found it weird that you posted a tweet on something that no one was disputing with no context. I also find it weird that you find people engaging with a post as "defensive". Would you prefer if I said nothing? I like your posts so I'd rather you said something. It's hardly out of context though: the case for another independence referendum hinges upon Scotland's EU membership and whether it can be 'forced out' by the rest of the uk. Either way, Scotland would have to apply so Scotland is leaving the eu.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:48
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Pissflaps posted:It's hardly out of context though: the case for another independence referendum hinges upon Scotland's EU membership and whether it can be 'forced out' by the rest of the uk. Either way, Scotland would have to apply so Scotland is leaving the eu. They were never under the impression that they wouldn't have to apply for EU membership, though.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:51
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Venomous posted:France, Holland etc. are going to elect strongly Eurosceptic governments in the next few months.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:52
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CommieGIR posted:They were never under the impression that they wouldn't have to apply for EU membership, though. How about we finish up taking about trade before applying your insight to EU membership.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:57
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Pissflaps posted:How about we finish up taking about trade before applying your insight to EU membership. Sure: Trade with the UK is no reason for Scotland not to pursue EU membership. It may be a smaller amount than their overall trade with Britain, but the EU will access a wider market. Regardless, I don't think your in any position to say that Brexit Good but Scotxit Bad.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:59
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CommieGIR posted:Regardless, I don't think your in any position to say that Brexit Good but Scotxit Bad. Good job that's not my position then. My position is that Brexit is a bad idea, and Scottish independence is also a bad idea. Voting Yes in response to Leave is compounding one error with another. Anybody arguing that leaving a union with your largest trading partner is a disaster for the UK, but good for Scotland, is a liar. The case for Scottish independence is not an economic one.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:03
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Pissflaps posted:Good job that's not my position then. My position is that Brexit is a bad idea, and Scottish independence is also a bad idea. Voting Yes in response to Leave is compounding one error with another. Well then maybe pushing for Scottish Independance may help scare Brexiters straight. Honestly, considering how 'Well' Brexit is going for them, something has to.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:06
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CommieGIR posted:Well then maybe pushing for Scottish Independance may help scare Brexiters straight. Honestly, considering how 'Well' Brexit is going for them, something has to. I suspect most Leavers are, at best, utterly indifferent to Scottish independence, and would consider the fiscal transfer to Scotland to be as unwelcome as the EU membership fees.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:07
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Okay, so we can admit that Scotland trades with the rest of the UK more than Europe. But that does not mean that Scotland won't lose more trade through leaving the European union than leaving the UK. This is because the trade barriers the EU overcomes aren't primarily tariff based, but are based around business practice and standardisation. When the UK falls outside the EU we cease these processes and business becomes more difficult with the remainder of the EU since you have to deal with a clusterfuck of regulation to trade. Crucially however, it is significantly easier to overcome these on a business to business basis when your primary trading partners outside the EU share legal and cultural traditions as well as general business practice. Specifically when Slovenia joined the EU it didn't significantly lose trade with its neighbours in the Balkans, despite gaining extra trade with the EU. It's much much more difficulty to overcome these barriers when you're operating with people who live halfway across the world and don't speak the same language. The long and short of this is that Scotland stands to lose a much larger percentage of its trade with the EU should it leave Europe than it would lose trade with the rest of the UK if it became independent.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:19
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Yorkshire Tea posted:The long and short of this is that Scotland stands to lose a much larger percentage of its trade with the EU should it leave Europe than it would lose trade with the rest of the UK if it became independent. This doesn't add up. If Scotland gains independence and joins the EU then it will be on the other side of this trade/customs trading barrier to the rest of the UK - which you've said will cause this 'much larger loss' in trade. Speaking the same language won't make any difference.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:25
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Pissflaps posted:I suspect most Leavers are, at best, utterly indifferent to Scottish independence Like gently caress they are. The Murdoch and Murdoch-lite press in England treat it like the nationalist bait it is. They might be indifferent to the actual idea of Scottish independence in the abstract, but the particular strain that involves the SNP is absolutely verboten.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:26
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CoolCab posted:Like gently caress they are. The Murdoch and Murdoch-lite press in England treat it like the nationalist bait it is. They might be indifferent to the actual idea of Scottish independence in the abstract, but the particular strain that involves the SNP is absolutely verboten. My experience is that ardent Brexiters are narrow minded little Englanders who want 'the jocks' to gently caress off. Just the other side of the nationalist coin.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:28
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Pissflaps posted:My experience is that ardent Brexiters are narrow minded little Englanders who want 'the jocks' to gently caress off. I mean I don't disagree but to put it another way: they would love to kick Scotland out but despise the idea of Scotland leaving. In large part because the SNP stick has been used to bash Labour for so long.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:31
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In my experience most Brexiters haven't given Scotland 2 seconds of thought.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:34
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| # ? May 10, 2024 18:35 |
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CoolCab posted:I mean I don't disagree but to put it another way: they would love to kick Scotland out but despise the idea of Scotland leaving. In large part because the SNP stick has been used to bash Labour for so long.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:35
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