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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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Taear posted:The only person responsible for Brexit is Dave. If the Lib Dems had been less wank about helping out the poor in the first term of this government they wouldn't have voted to leave. Furthermore if he had not collaborated, there would have been no risk of a hung parliament next time and no brexit because of it (seeing as it was done to shore up internal party loyalty with the assumption they would not win a majority).
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Mar 13, 2017 19:29
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Sinteres posted:The people who cynically campaigned for Leave to work on their populist credentials while secretly hoping for Remain deserve some blame too. Corbyn probably deserves some for half-heartedly campaigning for Remain while secretly hoping for Leave too. Y'know, I'm starting to believe this is Sturgeon's schtick. Take a slump in popularity, campaign to leave again. Either Westminster says NO and you get a burst in ratings as the face of la resistance, or they say yes and you dominate news cycles for a year as the face of the YES campaign. If May is smart she'll put the onus entirely on the Scottish people to show interest, and hope there's no taste for yet another referendum.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:32
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jabby posted:It is fairly telling that the SNP were regarded as to the left of Labour at the last election, yet have done basically nothing to protect Scotland from austerity and have basically been standard neoliberal gits. To be fair the SNP loving love austerity. Like they literally cannot get enough.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:35
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winegums posted:Y'know, I'm starting to believe this is Sturgeon's schtick. Take a slump in popularity, campaign to leave again. Either Westminster says NO and you get a burst in ratings as the face of la resistance, or they say yes and you dominate news cycles for a year as the face of the YES campaign. Can it be a shtick when this is the first referendum she has called as leader of the SNP & First Minister of Scotland? Also, not really sure SNP's popularity has slumped all that much. It could just be that the Scottish National Party actually think independence for Scotland is a good idea? Guess we'll see after the council elections in May.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:39
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forkboy84 posted:Can it be a shtick when this is the first referendum she has called as leader of the SNP & First Minister of Scotland? Also, not really sure SNP's popularity has slumped all that much. It could just be that the Scottish National Party actually think independence for Scotland is a good idea? Guess we'll see after the council elections in May. The conditions are hardly right for another referendum though. Most people don't want one, and support for independence is still less than 50% in the majority of polls. Also the timing she has chosen means the vote takes place while Brexit negotiations are still going on, so it could hardly be more disruptive. It's almost like she's daring the government to refuse her.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:47
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forkboy84 posted:Can it be a shtick when this is the first referendum she has called as leader of the SNP & First Minister of Scotland? Also, not really sure SNP's popularity has slumped all that much. It could just be that the Scottish National Party actually think independence for Scotland is a good idea? Guess we'll see after the council elections in May. I mean theres a line of argument that I'm no sure I completely buy into that says that the SNP is facing probably one of the first election cycles in the council elections where the big issues that were going to be on the table were not directly related to independence but were more related to criticisms of the budget and spending in Scotland, but now this move makes everything about independence again.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:52
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All the Lords amendments have been defeated. Do Labour get another opportunity to vote for it in the commons?
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Mar 13, 2017 19:55
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Welp, MPs voted down the amendment for EU nationals by a majority one larger than last time. The MP who flipped to the government side? Ken Clarke.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:56
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mfcrocker posted:Labour were absolutely always going to be unionist on this There's being unionist and there's being unionist though. I always expected them to oppose the idea of independence but had hoped Corbyn to come at the issue with a bit more nuance (as he tried to do with the EU referendum). Instead the tone from Labour HQ seems to be the same patronising oversimplistic shite we heard last time round. It's less about the position and more about the way they're advancing it.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:56
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Pissflaps posted:All the Lords amendments have been defeated.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:57
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welp time to play ping-pong
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Mar 13, 2017 19:57
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ThomasPaine posted:There's being unionist and there's being unionist though. I always expected them to oppose the idea of independence but had hoped Corbyn to come at the issue with a bit more nuance (as he tried to do with the EU referendum). Instead the tone from Labour HQ seems to be the same patronising oversimplistic shite we heard last time round. It's less about the position and more about the way they're advancing it.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:57
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Forget it Flaps, it's Brexit-town
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Mar 13, 2017 19:59
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If anything these larger majorities just make me lose whatever fleeting respect I might have had for some Tory MPs. I never expected Ken Clarke to flip, and for all the tough talk from the likes of Nicky Morgan and Anna Soubry they didn't have the balls to vote with the opposition. EDIT: Labour peers are not going to engage in any more ping-pong, so the bill will clear parliament tonight unamended. jabby fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 20:06
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jBrereton posted:there is no real nuance to be had in a binary referendum. The vote itself is binary, the issues informing it are not.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:09
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Article 50 triggered tonight. Welp. There we go folks. This is gonna be a ride.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:11
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Pochoclo posted:Article 50 triggered tonight. Welp. There we go folks. Really? The bill only gives the Prime Minister the authority to do so, speculation puts it not being done until the end of the month. vvv Haha, I wrote this and literally thought to myself 'Now I'M the Pissflaps.' namesake fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 20:12
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Pochoclo posted:Article 50 triggered tonight. Welp. There we go folks. This is gonna be a ride. No the bill just gives the government the right to invoke article 50.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:13
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It's effectively the same thing. What, do you expect May -not- to trigger it at this point or what? Yes I understand actual negotiations don't start until she actually does it, but let's be honest, markets and companies will start executing contingencies about now.
Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 20:15
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With the recent negative headlines over the budget its perfectly plausible that May will opt to trigger Article 50 asap in order to buy a few positive headlines from the Mail, Express, etc
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Mar 13, 2017 20:16
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Tigey posted:With the recent negative headlines over the budget its perfectly plausible that May will opt to trigger Article 50 asap in order to buy a few positive headlines from the Mail, Express, etc Having to organise/attend Treaty of Rome anniversary celebrations and the start of Brexit negotiations at the same time would annoy quite a lot of EU government officials. Which is probably why May would do it, yeah.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:20
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namesake posted:Having to organise/attend Treaty of Rome anniversary celebrations and the start of Brexit negotiations at the same time would annoy quite a lot of EU government officials.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:32
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Meanwhile Boris just put his full support in the budget debate behind a new Royal Yacht paid for by private investment.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:43
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Pochoclo posted:I have to say, in all my life, you two are the first people I ever find that don't like Queen. Maybe brits are more likely to not like them? Prophets in their own land and all that. Anti-monarchism was way more of a thing about 20 years ago; these things tend to go in cycles, there was a period of Vicky's reign where the monarchy was seriously unpopular too. There are still plenty of people who don't like the Queen and are just kinda 'meh' about her, though. Edit: Wow, I should really learn to read better  (I am 'meh' about Queen the band too, if that helps)
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Mar 13, 2017 20:43
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Someone should ask Corbyn how enthusiastic he is about unionism. As a number out of 10.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:44
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Pochoclo posted:It's effectively the same thing. What, do you expect May -not- to trigger it at this point or what? Yes I understand actual negotiations don't start until she actually does it, but let's be honest, markets and companies will start executing contingencies about now. By that token, in the absence of opposition, they'd have done that weeks ago.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:48
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forkboy84 posted:Boris Johnson really shouldn't get away scot-free here. Yeah, Davey Pigfucker made a horrible mistake in mortgaging the country to hold his party together so he could stay PM while complacently assumed we'd never commit suicide, but I'm not letting all the others responsible get away with it. Gideon, BoJo, Gove, loving Tony Blair sticking his oar in despite him being pure poison, and while I don't think he half-arsed it Corbyn did do a pisspoor job of getting his message out, which is the main theme of his time as leader. A whole lot of blame to go around really. They all did terrible stuff but if big Dave (or whoever decided at Tory HQ) hadn't made it a manifesto promise to stop votes going to UKIP then we'd all be fine.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:50
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feedmegin posted:Anti-monarchism was way more of a thing about 20 years ago; these things tend to go in cycles, there was a period of Vicky's reign where the monarchy was seriously unpopular too. There are still plenty of people who don't like the Queen and are just kinda 'meh' about her, though. Huh? I was talking about music, so obviously it's Queen, the band. gently caress the monarch Queen, I hate royalty. Also my advice to the thread is to dehumanise yourself and face to bloodshed, in general.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:55
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jBrereton posted:For starters it's barely Corbyn's job, he needs to remember Dugdale exists, secondly, there is no real nuance to be had in a binary referendum. Kezia Dugdale should probably be less poo poo before I give a gently caress about Corbyn standing on her toes. This goes for the majority of ScotLab MSPs.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:55
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When does the Brexit rally start I'm hoping they'll persuade those MPs to vote against the article 50 bill.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:08
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Pochoclo posted:It's effectively the same thing. What, do you expect May -not- to trigger it at this point or what? Yes I understand actual negotiations don't start until she actually does it, but let's be honest, markets and companies will start executing contingencies about now. AFAIK it's supposed to happen on the 15th. Obviously nobody outside the government really knows though.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:17
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jBrereton posted:... there is no real nuance to be had in a binary referendum.  An actual post made in 2017. Fangz posted:Someone should ask Corbyn how enthusiastic he is about unionism. As a number out of 10. Lots of people like me who were a 10 last time round are definitely not anymore. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 21:24
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Yorkshire Tea posted:They should ostensibly claim not to support it, but do literally nothing to prevent it and then blame the Tories for the breakup of the Union. That's what they did last time so probably what they'll try again.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:34
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big scary monsters posted:That's what they did last time so probably what they'll try again. If only, Labour made a huge mistake being seen as a part of the Westminster cabal. Cameron's face in this pic does look like he's experiencing a flashforward to 2016 though.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:38
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Lord of the Llamas posted:If only, Labour made a huge mistake being seen as a part of the Westminster cabal. I know this happened but it really really annoys me. Of course Labour wanted the union to stay together. People seeing Labour as having betrayed them over it just totally baffled me.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:42
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Lord of the Llamas posted:If only, Labour made a huge mistake being seen as a part of the Westminster cabal. I dunno, there was The Vow that was immediately shot and buried following the No vote, and there was Gordon Brown's last minute essay writing and I can barely remember what else Labour was involved in in the last referendum. Of course I was living in Scotland so probably wasn't the main focus of their campaign.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:43
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'The vow' was a meaningless bit of puff for a newspaper. Everything promised in it happened - because it didn't actually promise much.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:46
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Private Speech posted:AFAIK it's supposed to happen on the 15th. Obviously nobody outside the government really knows though. I think I saw someone chattering that the SNP announcement may have tipped that timetable and they're floating towards the 27th, coincidentally the deadline for Northern Ireland to form an executive
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Mar 13, 2017 21:49
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Taear posted:I know this happened but it really really annoys me. Of course Labour wanted the union to stay together. People seeing Labour as having betrayed them over it just totally baffled me. big scary monsters posted:I dunno, there was The Vow that was immediately shot and buried following the No vote, and there was Gordon Brown's last minute essay writing and I can barely remember what else Labour was involved in in the last referendum. Of course I was living in Scotland so probably wasn't the main focus of their campaign. Well so was I and it seemed to me that the cross-party "Better Together" campaign just played right into the "Us vs Them" mentality the SNP were trying to encourage. You don't remember a distinctive Labour involvement in the campaign exactly because there was no substantive or distinctive Labour campaign beyond Better Together which lumped them right in there with Cameron. People act as if the Scottish Tories* have played a masterstroke since the referendum taking hardcore unionist votes from Scottish Labour but the fact of the matter is that ~50%~ of Scottish Labour's vote has gone to the SNP since 2007 and any support lost since then has really been small in comparison. It's actually incredible how close the parallel between the Scot Lab and UK Lab decline has been in the months after the Indyref and Brexit referendums respectively. In both cases Labour had the misfortune of having the most divided electorate and in both cases the referendum has been an earthquake in old party political loyalties. * The Ruth Davidson Funny on HIGNFY and I'm not Sturgeon Party Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 21:56
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There was a 'labour for independence' campaign but everyone in it joined the SNP straight after.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:58
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