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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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jBrereton posted:Yvette Cooper for head of the party? Yes? No? She'd be a good head of an SDP Mark 2 March 15th 1917 - Tsar Nicholas II abdicates the throne, ending the Romanov dynasty's 304 year run in charge of Russia. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 15:26
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forkboy84 posted:She'd be a good head of an SDP Mark 2
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Mar 15, 2017 15:31
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jBrereton posted:Let's not have that and instead have Labour but not poo poo. Clearly you & I have different definitions of a not poo poo Labour Party if you think Yvette Cooper would be the leader to restore a not poo poo Labour Party..
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Mar 15, 2017 15:32
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I look forward to Cooper and May trying to outdo each other on toughness on crimes as we're all led into the camps.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:35
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forkboy84 posted:Clearly you & I have different definitions of a not poo poo Labour Party if you think Yvette Cooper would be the leader to restore a not poo poo Labour Party.. Cooper will forever be handicapped by being married to Balls. So many puns at PMQs.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:42
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jBrereton posted:Yvette Cooper for head of the party? Yes? No? Which one is she again - the one who uses computers?
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Mar 15, 2017 15:42
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forkboy84 posted:I can't see Labour getting close enough to a majority that they'd need the help of the Liberals dozen or so MPs to push them over the line. But an electoral pact with Libs/Greens/PC to stop the left vote being divided might mean more Lab/Lib MPs in the first place. I had the impression that was what Clive Lewis was after.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:43
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Dead Goon posted:Which one is she again - the one who uses computers? No, that's Liz "4.5%" Kendall.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:45
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Not poo poo policies like mandatory tagging for anyone who breathes criminal-aiding air.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:48
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I'm sure there's a long list of breathless, hyperbolic fantasy that would render Yvette Cooper a bad choice to be labour leader.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:51
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Pissflaps posted:I'm sure there's a long list of breathless, hyperbolic fantasy that would render Yvette Cooper a bad choice to be labour leader. It's not a particularly long list. She's not much a socialist. Not even much a social democrat.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:56
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Guavanaut posted:I look forward to Cooper and May trying to outdo each other on toughness on crimes as we're all led into the camps. She wouldn't though. She may be less left wing that many people here would like but she's not the same as Theresa May. She's not a Tory. She's from the same tradition that introduced the National Minimum Wage in the face of opposition from the Tories and right wing media and moved the Overton Window so now even the Tories boast about increasing it; increased funding for schools; increased the number of nurses and doctors; wrote off a lot of debt for the developing world; introduced devolution; created paternity leave; increased child benefit; created sure start; signed the Good Friday agreement; cut pensioner poverty; cut child poverty; doubled the overseas aid budget; abolished Section 28; introduced civil partnerships, and moved the Overton window so even the Tories now try to boast about who loves LGBTQ people the most. Even with all the things Labour did wrong, that's a lot better than a Tory government. It's not true that most Labour MPs are the same as the Tories, they're actually much better. A government led by these people would be much better than a Tory government. And for all Yvette Cooper's faults, the alternative people seem to be offering is a Labour leader who is actively destroying the party and helping the Tories stay in power for God knows how long to come. I mean, I don't see why those of us who actually want a Labour government constantly need to answer the question "who do you think would be better than Corbyn?". Who don't you tell us who you think would be better than Cooper, if she's bad? Seriously, i'm not stuck on Yvette Cooper if people have better ideas but who would be better?
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Mar 15, 2017 15:57
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jBrereton posted:Yvette Cooper for head of the party? Yes? No? I know someone who has worked for her and in a shocking turn of events she an absolutely poo poo boss
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Mar 15, 2017 16:00
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Paxman posted:She wouldn't though. She may be less left wing that many people here would like but she's not the same as Theresa May. She's not a Tory. Ummm, you don't have to be a Tory to be absolutely abysmal on civil liberties. There's a rich recent history of Labour trying to position themselves as the party of "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", except forgetting to do the latter because it's hard & not an instant vote winner like the former. Paxman posted:Who don't you tell us who you think would be better than Cooper, if she's bad? Seriously, i'm not stuck on Yvette Cooper if people have better ideas but who would be better? I have. Nandy is about as far as right as I'd countenance for replacing Corbyn. Hopefully the membership feel the same way and continue to refuse to allow the neoliberals in the party to take over again. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 16:00
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At this point I think I'm happy with not-Hitler.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:02
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forkboy84 posted:Ummm, you don't have to be a Tory to be absolutely abysmal on civil liberties. Well this is true
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Mar 15, 2017 16:04
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Jose posted:I know someone who has worked for her and in a shocking turn of events she an absolutely poo poo boss Anyone know any compassionate employers who work even a bit hard to fight the tories to be head of Labour?
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Mar 15, 2017 16:06
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The issue is for everything the Blair government did right, they still got us where we are today; scapegoating asylum seekers and criminals and acceptance of neoliberal schemas for evaluating society has lead to the exact situations we're in now. A country that didn't hate poor foreign people and wasn't simultaneously feeling the burn of a really unfair economy while also believing total fantasies about how it came about wouldn't have voted for Brexit. This stuff matters, it's not just hating Blair because he killed everyone in the middle east one time, even if that's also true.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:09
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spectralent posted:The issue is for everything the Blair government did right, they still got us where we are today The years of Tory government have had a nostalgia about Englishness that the Blair years did not. Without that, no Brexit. It would have been Sick and Cool for Blair to have put more into poorer communities, but the last few years of Labour saw a genuine attempt to help people out with the cost of education, with long-term unemployment, and with the cost of childcare that has been largely reversed despite being the most damaging for the poor.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:12
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jBrereton posted:I disagree. I don't think the sentiment of englishness has much to do with it; it's ultimately about whether or not people are suffering. If people's living standards are bad, they'll vote for things to change. If they aren't, they'll vote for more of the same. The label of "we need this to stop" will change, but it's ultimately the facepaint a desire for radical change wears. Remember that Labour was also promising austerity, including being "tougher on benefits than the tories". I don't think Labour would've seen people any happier with the way the country's gone as it was in 2015, though I expect they wouldn't have been boneheaded enough to leave the EU. Essentially, the axis public opinion's turned rightward on has been the financial crisis, not the migrant crisis.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:18
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forkboy84 posted:I have. Nandy is about as far as right as I'd countenance for replacing Corbyn. Hopefully the membership feel the same way and continue to refuse to allow the neoliberals in the party to take over again. Yougov poll of members a few days ago had differing views to yourself. Their the favoured candidate was Keir Starmer leading over Clive Lewis, every other candidate was either strongly disliked by a large section or unknown (e.g. Nandy had 18 liked 20 disliked - rest didn't have a clue who she was). http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ahgsjavm5a/TimesResults_170310_LabourMembers_Website.pdf Its good that Labour has 2 possible candidates that should unify Labour question is will they both get on the ballot when it happens; Kier is almost guaranteed, Clive is a different matter. Also Kier polls favourable with the general public, well all except UKIP supporters but they hate every Labour MP. ukle fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 16:18
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Let's not forget that Yvette Cooper has a not-insignificant role in where we are today, by completely failing to challenge Theresa May in her tenure as Shadow Home Secretary and allowing poo poo like Yarl's Wood to get through without proper scrutiny for fear of not looking like she was tough on crime. If Theresa May had actually had to defend herself properly and had the poo poo she was getting up to properly exposed, she might not be PM right now. And as for "New Labour did good stuff", yeah, they did. I'm not denying that. Problem is that the Labour party from 2010-2015 wasn't suggesting policy like the national minimum wage, they were suggesting fiery stuff like "Maybe we could cut a little bit less than the Tories, a bit, I suppose, we're still economically tough though!" Look around the world for how well triangulation is going for the centre-left who are sticking to it; spoilers, it ain't good. We've already heard about the Dems in the US, and things aren't much better in Germany, Sweden, France and elsewhere either. Corbyn isn't a good leader by any stretch of the imagination, but it definitely could be worse, and right now he seems like the only choice to actually tack the party leftwards and potentially keep it there.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:21
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I'd be happy with either Kier Starmer or Clive Lewis. They both seem not poo poo.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:26
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OwlFancier posted:I mean if he wants to adopt the Tory policy of putting the lib dems in a gimp suit and riding them around the commons before nicking all their voters I wouldn't complain. 2010 Lib Dem went to 2015 Labour several times over more than went Tory which dropped the LD vote down to 2nd place or lower all over the south, but didn't raise the Labour vote up to 1st. allowing the Tories to win seats.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:36
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Undead Hippo posted:I'd be happy with either Kier Starmer or Clive Lewis. They both seem not poo poo. starmer's a lawyer and acts like a lawyer. do you really see him talk technical details about the legal process of Brexit and think he's an inspiring, charismatic figure? i'm not disputing your description of "not poo poo" - i'll vote for the guy come May 2020 - but don't think he's right to lead the party
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Mar 15, 2017 16:39
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Undead Hippo posted:I'd be happy with either Kier Starmer or Clive Lewis. They both seem not poo poo. At the minute Clive Lewis seems to be the living embodiment of the "Anybody Else" candidate. Like he's been an MP for less than two years and essentially his only major act is resigning from the shadow cabinet over the A50 vote; I get the feeling people are projecting more than a little bit over how good a leader he would be (if he even wanted it). Starmer seems much in the same boat though less people seem interested in seeing him become leader. We'll see I guess. All of it is irrelevant until the Labour party rules change to allow a left wing candidate to stand.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:42
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Cerv posted:"nicking all their voters" didn't happen Not so much though apparently  *squints* looks like about... 33.33337% more Labour than Tory
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Mar 15, 2017 16:43
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No wonder people get predicting politics wrong. What a mess.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:45
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Shy Tories are real they're called Lib Dems.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:46
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I've never voted Lib dem.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:47
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MikeCrotch posted:At the minute Clive Lewis seems to be the living embodiment of the "Anybody Else" candidate. Like he's been an MP for less than two years and essentially his only major act is resigning from the shadow cabinet over the A50 vote; I get the feeling people are projecting more than a little bit over how good a leader he would be (if he even wanted it). Starmer's not in the same boat. He was part of the government as DPP for 6 years. Its part of the reason why Starmer has broad appeal he is a known quantity with experience of leading. Lewis's popularity comes not from the A50, his leadership potential was talked about a long time before as he is about as dream of a left wing candidate you could get in modern times - ex military, former journalist (all be it with a tarnished record), highly presentable, a very good speaker and debater. ukle fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 16:49
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Shy Tories are real they're called Lib Dems. Pissflaps posted:I've never voted Lib dem. I love how nobody mentioned you, and yet you jumped to your own defense.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:52
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Miftan posted:I love how nobody mentioned you, and yet you jumped to your own defense. I'm not defending myself, I have no need to. I'm proud of my voting record. Not everyone here can say the same.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:56
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Starmer and Lewis are both going to have exactly the same problems as Corbyn though - both are inexperienced in leading a party and political infighting, if they are actually left wing they are going to have to deal with a hostile PLP almost certainly, and there's no indication they would do a better job of messaging and media management. In Starmer's case he has in many ways the exact problem Corbyn does with messaging - the ability to talk about in depth issues with nuance, but none to talk in charismatic, media friendly soundbites.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:56
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Also, Lewis is signalling as hard and as desperately as he can that he does not want more responsibility until he's had a little longer to grasp the basics of being an MP. Guy will likely be impressive in a few years' time, but right now, he's the embodiment of a terrified newbie.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:03
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Hillary Benn could win an election
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Mar 15, 2017 17:05
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Think there's more here. https://mobile.twitter.com/Zarkwan/status/841961696759562242/photo/1
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Mar 15, 2017 17:06
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Rakosi posted:Hillary Benn could win an election David Milliband.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:10
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I think stewart lee should be leader of the labour party. You may think that's crazy, but Al Franken is one of the best US senators.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:20
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Pochoclo posted:"Haha Labour debt 500 billion" Please stop quoting Pissflaps.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:21
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