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Neo Rasa posted:Jupiter Ascending is loving awesome and has almost the exact same plot escalation as The Matrix. Average person gets swept off into learning their entire worlds' achievements are irrelevant, gets rescued a lot and trained to be the chosen one, gets tempted by the bad guys, gets owned, and then triumphs by brawling with the big bad and telling him who they are. I know it looks and is paced like an 80s anime OAV, which is fine, it's basically the best live action anime ever made. But I really didn't get the hate this movie got compared to all the other movies where an average person goes an incredible journey or whatever. Well then the issue might be one of the many things that make up a film besides the plot, as hard as that might be to believe.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:54
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Jupiter Ascending was loving awesome? I beg to differ.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:05
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Sir Kodiak posted:Well then the issue might be one of the many things that make up a film besides the plot, as hard as that might be to believe. It is hard to believe since I've literally never heard any complaints about the movie that aren't "the story is dumb" and "the female lead is dumb," But this is never expanded upon. Like people will say it's stupid that she gets rescued repeatedly, but how is that any different than Neo being 100% useless in The Matrix until the last twenty minutes?
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Mar 15, 2017 18:07
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Well I mean the Matrix isn't good either. Now Speed Racer... that is a great movie.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:08
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Is Jupiter Ascending the one with Channing Tatum in eyeliner? Whenever I see or hear of guys wearing eyeliner I can't help but think of Semi Pro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGyFPbNg03w
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Mar 15, 2017 18:11
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The Matrix is an actual classic imo
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Mar 15, 2017 18:11
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Snooze Cruise posted:Well I mean the Matrix isn't good either. I love both, but the Wachowski sisters have always made fun movies first and foremost. And while some of the inspiration is different The Matrix is just as much an "anime movie" in as many ways, and Jupiter Ascending has a lot of stupid stuff in it like most of its action scenes, but it's still a total blast to me.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:14
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FCKGW posted:Godzilla had the baffling choice to close with a new song by Rage Against the Machine, "No Shelter", an anthem about how movies and entertainment rewrite history and distract you from the true horrors of the evil empire I actually bought the surprisingly great Godzilla soundtrack back in the day just for this song. It's a truly great song and indeed truly baffling that it's an exclusive for the Godzilla soundtrack.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:15
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Barudak posted:But thats the only good story in the Animatrix? Second Renaissance was a good story, but not a good "Matrix" story. Nice worldbuilding, and it kind of made the machines sadistic assholes, with the "humans as batteries" thing a flimsy justification for enslaving humanity. Maybe they'll fix that battery poo poo and say the pod people are for distributed computing.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:16
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FilthyImp posted:Second Renaissance was a good story, but not a good "Matrix" story. Nice worldbuilding, and it kind of made the machines sadistic assholes, with the "humans as batteries" thing a flimsy justification for enslaving humanity. It would be nice if they did a few Matrix movies where more than just the first one is awesome.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:17
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FilthyImp posted:Second Renaissance was a good story, but not a good "Matrix" story. Nice worldbuilding, and it kind of made the machines sadistic assholes, with the "humans as batteries" thing a flimsy justification for enslaving humanity. I think everyone was hooked up / being used as a gigantic neural network in the original script draft. I still like the battery thing more as a metaphor though. Also the best Animatrix short is Beyond.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:21
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kiimo posted:Jupiter Ascending was loving awesome? It's no Pixels, that's for sure.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:26
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I really enjoyed Jupiter Ascending. Even the dumb parts I don't understand why they would make someone actively recoil, because they were shot and choreographed great. I just don't understand the reaction of "Here's Channing Tatum fighting a dinosaur man with a portal gun look at this stupid poo poo!" Instead of "Channing Tatum fighting a dinosaur man with a portal gun? Sign me up!"
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Mar 15, 2017 18:33
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Neo Rasa posted:It is hard to believe since I've literally never heard any complaints about the movie that aren't "the story is dumb" and "the female lead is dumb," But this is never expanded upon. Like people will say it's stupid that she gets rescued repeatedly, but how is that any different than Neo being 100% useless in The Matrix until the last twenty minutes? I think the big distinction between The Matrix and Jupiter Ascending that you're missing is how they treat the sci-fi dystopia that is revealed to the focal character. The Matrix operates like Blade or Constantine where you only briefly dip into this fantastical other world, allowing it to operate as a metaphor through which to explain our contemporary world: we are trapped in a system of control that defines and limits what is possible in order to extract value from us, if you can see the system that controls you then you can bend it to your will, etc. Jupiter Ascending doesn't work like that. It's more in line with the Matrix sequels, taking the fantastical world as a literal place that operates according to its own internal logic that we are asked to invest in. It's applicable to our real world (industrial mining, callous oligarchs), but it's not showing the hidden strings of our world, it's a fantasy world with relevant themes. It's much more The Last Starfighter or Tron than anything that's going on in The Matrix: a kid from the real world ends up in crazy fantasy land and turns out to be the bestest ever. Neo, by contrast, is completely useless on the Nebuchadnezzar, and only has value in the "fake" (i.e., real) world of the Matrix. That doesn't make Jupiter Ascending a bad movie on its own, but it places a heavy burden on the charisma of the lead, since they're the only thing there to ground us, and the extent to which you get drawn into the fantasy world. Mila Kunis is no Jeff Bridges, and the best its setting has going for it is being pretty in places. If the movie was all dog-men fighting dinosaurs, that would be one thing, but it's scene after scene of talk about contracts and lineages and legal requirements. And with poorly staged action, neither as good as the elegant wire-fu of The Matrix or the vibrantly hyper-kinetic Speed Racer. If it worked for you, it worked for you, and that's great. There's people who adore the Matrix sequels too. But I don't find the comparisons to the first Matrix all that convincing.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:47
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I've only seen one clip of Speed Racer but it was one of the ugliest things I've seen.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:54
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RBA Starblade posted:I've only seen one clip of Speed Racer but it was one of the ugliest things I've seen. smh
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Mar 15, 2017 19:05
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RBA Starblade posted:I've only seen one clip of Speed Racer but it was one of the ugliest things I've seen. holy moly this is the hottest possible take Speed Racer is not only incredibly fun and full of heart and all around awesome, but it's gorgeous Rebooting the Matrix is so dumb tho
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Mar 15, 2017 19:07
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Speed Racer gets more brutalized by lousy compression than any movie I've ever seen. HBO's cable broadcast (not streaming, actual cable) had trouble not breaking out into blocks with how much is going on. I appreciate that this makes it too easy to dismiss complaints, but it's a movie that doesn't work on anything less than a Blu-ray.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:09
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Speed Racer is loving sumptuous. Its editing techniques for exposition should have been in every film.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:23
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FilthyImp posted:Second Renaissance was a good story, but not a good "Matrix" story. Nice worldbuilding, and it kind of made the machines sadistic assholes, with the "humans as batteries" thing a flimsy justification for enslaving humanity. Wait, really? Granted I haven't seen the Animatix in like 10 years but I thought that the whole point of Second Renaissance was that humans were more or less directly responsible for everything and that once they had little erased themselves from slavery the robots were happy to coexist as equals. It was only us trying to genocide them in nuclear hellfire without warning or provocation that made them finally turn on us, and even then they offered the Matrix as an alternative to outright extermination.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:23
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Guy Mann posted:Wait, really? Granted I haven't seen the Animatix in like 10 years but I thought that the whole point of Second Renaissance was that humans were more or less directly responsible for everything and that once they had little erased themselves from slavery the robots were happy to coexist as equals. It was only us trying to genocide them in nuclear hellfire without warning or provocation that made them finally turn on us, and even then they offered the Matrix as an alternative to outright extermination. I'm not an ethics professor or anything but I don't know if "turnabout is fair play" wrt genocide is...good
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Mar 15, 2017 19:31
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FilthyImp posted:Second Renaissance was a good story, but not a good "Matrix" story. Nice worldbuilding, and it kind of made the machines sadistic assholes, with the "humans as batteries" thing a flimsy justification for enslaving humanity. Anton Yetchin's apparently final film work was a short with Rufus Sewell, "Rise", is apparently a live-action remake of The Second Renaissance with the serial numbers filed off. There's scenes pretty much lifted from it. And apparently, there's talks of a full length feature being developed.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:34
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basic hitler posted:To be fair i dont think the wachowskis can make any more good matrix movies or maybe even any good content at all based on like 2/3 of cloud atlas, all of Jupiter ascending, and sens8 Or 2/3 of The Matrix itself for that matter.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:34
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raditts posted:Or 2/3 of The Matrix itself for that matter. Yeah, the Matrix was better before it had a sequel. I think this is the only case I can think of where the sequels actually made the original worse
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Mar 15, 2017 19:36
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Mischalaniouse posted:It kinda reminds me of how Konami farms out Silent Hill to whichever studio is cheapest and treats its high profile "auteurs" like Kojima like poo poo because the execs literally believe that the talent who creates the game doesn't matter. I think I had a much better understanding of Konami (and Capcom and some other game companies) once I learned that it's by and large a gambling machine company that just produces video games on the side.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:38
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Sir Kodiak posted:I think the big distinction between The Matrix and Jupiter Ascending that you're missing is how they treat the sci-fi dystopia that is revealed to the focal character. The Matrix operates like Blade or Constantine where you only briefly dip into this fantastical other world, allowing it to operate as a metaphor through which to explain our contemporary world: we are trapped in a system of control that defines and limits what is possible in order to extract value from us, if you can see the system that controls you then you can bend it to your will, etc. This is also relevant to the issues I had with John Wick 2 vs. the original. Of course, John Wick 2 was still a good movie despite that. Waffles Inc. posted:holy moly this is the hottest possible take For real, that movie is the only reason I own a blu-ray player. raditts fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 19:41
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Speed Racer was great, Cloud Atlas was great, Jupiter Ascending is very flawed but also charming. I think it would have worked better if it wasn't pitched as a Big Epic Space Opera since at heart it's really more like Labyrinth- a girl who hates her life enters a fantasy world and learns her value and what's important and so on. As it is, it's still kinda fun. The Wachowskis always go for broke on what they do and that makes them good. I even think the Matrix sequels are interesting movies, though there's something that makes them less than satisfying as sequels.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:43
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The Matrix sequels just get so far up their own rear end with the mythology that the story drowns in it. This seems to become more and more of a problem as you go through the Wachowskis' catalogue of movies.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:47
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raditts posted:This is also relevant to the issues I had with John Wick 2 vs. the original. Of course, John Wick 2 was still a good movie despite that. Yeah, same. John Wick 2 has a bunch of fantastic action, but it was odd seeing so many people talk about how great it was to dig into the mechanics of the magical world of high-end super-killers. Just one of those things where the movie is doing something that's completely not for me. Maxwell Lord posted:Speed Racer was great, Cloud Atlas was great, Jupiter Ascending is very flawed but also charming. I think it would have worked better if it wasn't pitched as a Big Epic Space Opera since at heart it's really more like Labyrinth- a girl who hates her life enters a fantasy world and learns her value and what's important and so on. As it is, it's still kinda fun. I'd considered mentioning Labyrinth alongside Tron and The Last Starfighter. Because, sure, it's not inherently a bad structure for a fantasy movie. And I'd have liked Jupiter Ascending more if it was more like Labyrinth: a greater emphasis on fairytale logic, a more personal scope to the story, and David Bowie in a major role. Honestly, I get the appeal of Jupiter Ascending more than Cloud Atlas. Don't get that movie at all. Just nothing for my mind to cling to other than awful facial prosthetics.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:49
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Cloud Atlas is about how it's worth doing the right thing even in the most seemingly futile and pointless of circumstances- everything counts. Agree with that point or not (it's not the kind of pure existentialism that's more intellectually acceptable these days), it's very sincere in that point. And it's one of the few films to try and follow the precedent of Griffith's Intolerance, and tell a story set across multiple times and places through sheer editing, linking scenes through emotional movement more than literal cause and effect. I'd even argue that the makeup plays into this- it's supposed to be kind of obvious, these are supposed to be the same people, echoing throughout time.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:56
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Whenever I think of Cloud Atlas, all I can think of is how this big amazing inspiring speech that is supposed to echo through the ages contains the words "from the womb to the tomb" and how somebody had to have thought so highly of the deep thoughts they scribbled into their notebook margin during high school algebra class that they carried that on through their lives to include it in a book / movie script.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:59
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IMO, The Lego Movie and The Truman Show are tied for the best Matrix movie. Pleasantville is the second best
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Mar 15, 2017 20:04
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Neo Rasa posted:It is hard to believe since I've literally never heard any complaints about the movie that aren't "the story is dumb" and "the female lead is dumb," But this is never expanded upon. Like people will say it's stupid that she gets rescued repeatedly, but how is that any different than Neo being 100% useless in The Matrix until the last twenty minutes? Bar Crow fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 20:05
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raditts posted:Whenever I think of Cloud Atlas, all I can think of is how this big amazing inspiring speech that is supposed to echo through the ages contains the words "from the womb to the tomb" and how somebody had to have thought so highly of the deep thoughts they scribbled into their notebook margin during high school algebra class that they carried that on through their lives to include it in a book / movie script. This sounds like a great improv scene.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:07
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21 Muns posted:IMO, The Lego Movie and The Truman Show are tied for the best Matrix movie. Under your ranking it'd be the third best
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Mar 15, 2017 20:15
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Sir Kodiak posted:If it worked for you, it worked for you, and that's great. There's people who adore the Matrix sequels too. But I don't find the comparisons to the first Matrix all that convincing. It's funny I actually never thought of it as being similar to The Matrix at all until very recently but the more I discuss it the more I find it similar to The Matrix the same as your other examples (which to be fair are much more similar to Jupiter Ascending). Like "Neo, by contrast, is completely useless on the Nebuchadnezzar, and only has value in the "fake" (i.e., real) world of the Matrix." ? Jennifer Connelly is just a teen babysitter outside of the world of Labyrinth but in the world she's important. Neo's a 9 to 5 drone but in the Matrix he's cyber Jesus, Mila Kunis' job on earth is to clean toilets and feels so worthless she decides to sell her eggs so her cousin can buy a PS4 with Dark Souls 2, but in the greater scheme of the universe she's politically savvy enough to become the single owner of earth and is space royalty and gets to definitively obliterate the bad guy on multiple levels. The Matrix wraps itself in a dystopian sci-fi setting that is "cooler" and "grittier" in some ways that I think make it more accessible and easier to assume metaphor and that it's somehow more serious, but it's still a fun action movie first and foremost (especially compared to Matrix "let's have two different characters lecture the screen about causality for twenty-five minutes" Reloaded) with lots of badass moments, special attention paid to the sound effects of the guns/bullet casings, etc. It's a great movie and I honestly like it more than Jupiter Ascending, I just never got the super negative reaction the latter got from a lot of people. When it's not much of a stretch compared to plenty of other fairytale kind of movies like The Matrix, Star Wars, or even Krull, Tron itself, etc.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:22
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raditts posted:Whenever I think of Cloud Atlas, all I can think of is how this big amazing inspiring speech that is supposed to echo through the ages contains the words "from the womb to the tomb" and how somebody had to have thought so highly of the deep thoughts they scribbled into their notebook margin during high school algebra class that they carried that on through their lives to include it in a book / movie script. IIRC the book wisely glosses over exactly what Sonmi says that is so world changing, just going over generalities of what she discussed.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:24
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Timby posted:THR is getting really lazy. I thought Beyond was a disappointment? Didn't know a sequel was greenlit.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:27
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Sir Kodiak posted:The Matrix operates like Blade For all everyone compares The Matrix and Dark City, having rewatched Blade recently, I was really struck by the similar feel and beats between it and The Matrix.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:28
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Well I guess if nothing else, there's no reason modern Keanu couldn't be in the Matrix reboot thing. Hell, he did a good job in Man of Tai Chi, get him to direct. 
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