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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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Pissflaps posted:So it is a stool. No, it has a back. Edit: 1987. My parents move to England from Scotland. I blame Thatcher.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:00
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It's a bad chair either way. Get (your boss to buy you) an Aeron or something of similar quality.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:02
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Why would the lead guitarist buy you an office chair? That's just gonna look silly
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Mar 16, 2017 14:09
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Baron Corbyn posted:This is far from the worst poll we've seen since May took over. What warrants the "holy gently caress"? UKIP collapsing within reach of the Greens? The Tories raising taxes, breaking a manifesto pledge, getting a monstering from the press and then going up in the polls is also pretty shocking.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:22
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people always love the heel
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Mar 16, 2017 14:23
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jabby posted:The Tories raising taxes, breaking a manifesto pledge, getting a monstering from the press and then going up in the polls is also pretty shocking. That's what happens when there is no functioning opposition.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:23
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https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/842372281347264512
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Mar 16, 2017 14:55
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The Functioning Opposition smiles as it waves its hands in arcane patterns, revealing the true and hidden nature of all things. "That bad stuff? It's actually... bad"
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Mar 16, 2017 14:56
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JFairfax posted:people always love the heel Incidentally, people also are heels
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Mar 16, 2017 14:59
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baka kaba posted:The Functioning Opposition smiles as it waves its hands in arcane patterns, revealing the true and hidden nature of all things. "That bad stuff? It's actually... bad"
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Mar 16, 2017 14:59
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Pissflaps posted:That's what happens when there is no functioning opposition. No. this is what happens when people like what the government is doing. They have no need or desire for an opposition. If they were pissed off they could put a vote in for the mysterious 'other' or none of the above. No one planned for this scenario. The scenario of 'what happens if a population votes against its interests and shows no sign of stopping?' we now know. The survivors form circular firing squads and engage in increasingly banal arguements while the country collapses. This idea that Labour could be doing well is so naive. They could have the best leader in the world and it wouldn't matter. There is no demand for traditional Labour ideals. Leftist or centrist. The poor were told by the Tories and ukip that all their ills were because of immigrants and other poor people. And it worked. The damage is done. A generation of working class are now hardcore Tory base. These people aren't staying away from Labour because of Corbyn, they're staying away because anything left of centre-right is wish washy loonyleft that broke are britane. Corbyn isn't helping matters I agree, but he wasn't the one that poisoned the well. That was done over time by an adept Tory disinformation campaign. Now Labour are associated with 'lazy shirkers' And 'letting immigrants have all the jobs' and 'giving mansions to polish people so they can send the mansion to Poland brick by brick it's outrageous'. None of this goes away if Corbyn goes. In the current political climate the only way a new Labour leader could increase their polling is by apeing the Conservatives. This seems to be where most of the disagreement lies. I assume that pissflaps et al do have ideas for what Labour should do once propelled to power on the back of a Tory-lite manifesto? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and also assume you want them to do a u-turn on the odious policies they had to adopt in order to get into power. The alternative, you see, would mean you're basically a closet Tory and should gently caress right off.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:01
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The idea that politics is driven by a utter fight between two rival chaos magicians make a lot of sense, tbh.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:05
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Literally yes! Where is the opposition coming from? Corbyn stumbling through pathetic non-questions while the government was waiting to get tanned on this NI thing was just emblematic of how poo poo he has been since his re-election and arguably before. You know who's been a more functional opposition on this? The fuckin SNP. They're tiny! But they're trying!
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Mar 16, 2017 15:05
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Regarde Aduck posted:No. this is what happens when people like what the government is doing. They have no need or desire for an opposition. If they were pissed off they could put a vote in for the mysterious 'other' or none of the above. It's hard to work out what Labour's policies are right now. But they seem generally to be rather good. Also, they haven't changed much since Ed Miliband was leader. I do think the party might do a little better if it had a leader capable of articulating what it stands for and doing the odd interview without loving up. Also, if it had a leader who appointed PR people and strategists who had a clue what they are doing. It would certainly be an interesting experiment to see if Labour's polling picked up in those circumstances. Labour made gains in England in the last election under Ed Miliband who had his faults, though it lost far more seats in Scotland. I'm not sure the public has suddenly embraced fascism in the past 24 months and it should be possible at least to carry on making small gains in England (I'd love to be optimistic about Scotland too but I don't really know what's happening there). That's far short from what we really want of course, but it does look possible that Labour will actually make losses at the next election, which shouldn't happen.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:16
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Regarde Aduck posted:In the current political climate the only way a new Labour leader could increase their polling is by apeing the Conservatives. This seems to be where most of the disagreement lies. I assume that pissflaps et al do have ideas for what Labour should do once propelled to power on the back of a Tory-lite manifesto? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and also assume you want them to do a u-turn on the odious policies they had to adopt in order to get into power. The alternative, you see, would mean you're basically a closet Tory and should gently caress right off. A u-turn on Odious policies such as tax credits, minimum wage and a massive programme of public sector investment? That's not something I want - if that makes me a 'closet tory' then fair enough.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:17
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jBrereton posted:Literally yes! As If the public care about who gives the sickest burns in PMQs - again, the tories have been caught out being straight up shits with corruption and idiotic budgeting, and yet they go up in polls. They either don't care to know, it's expected, or just straight up like the whole narrative that has been set for the last 6+ years. Regarde Aduck is correct, you could have the most eloquent, passionate and charismatic front bench opposition and it wouldn't matter. At this moment, it's probably best that someone like Corbyn is still at the head, as you never know, people might actually think "christ, why am I being told that Corbyn has odd socks instead of thee latest tory fuckup" and cause them to actually think instead of react based on their gut feelings.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:45
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Electoral corruption and U-turns on broken manifesto promises aren't denting the Tory lead in the polls because, despite that, people still would rather vote for them than the alternative being offered by Labour. That's how bad labour has become under Corbyn.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:49
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Don't Lol me posted:Regarde Aduck is correct, you could have the most eloquent, passionate and charismatic front bench opposition and it wouldn't matter. The SNP swept to victory in Scotland because they had a coherent and persuasive opposition to every other party. Labour can't even win fuckin byelections at this point but apparently it's the voters' fault for being mindless right wing drones. Disgraceful.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:52
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Seems that rape tax went through after all via statutory instrument: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/mar/16/tax-credit-clause-becomes-law-without-parliament-vote
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Mar 16, 2017 15:52
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It's because people in general are colossal idiots, hth
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Mar 16, 2017 15:53
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So let's see - I'm a voter, I'd vote for Labour but I don't like Jam man, so I'll go straight from middle left to hard right? Why wouldn't I just vote for the next best option, the Lib dems? That'd make sense right? They're New Labour virtually, right? Well, since I don't see the libdem fightback in full effect in the polls, I'm guessing that's a load of bollocks.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:54
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Don't Lol me posted:So let's see - I'm a voter, I'd vote for Labour but I don't like Jam man, so I'll go straight from middle left to hard right?
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Mar 16, 2017 15:55
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Don't Lol me posted:So let's see - I'm a voter, I'd vote for Labour but I don't like Jam man, so I'll go straight from middle left to hard right? My choice is between labour or nobody. My local mp is a good lad and anti Corbyn so I'll probably vote for him.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:55
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Resurrect Cromwell IMO but this time make sure he's atheist
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Mar 16, 2017 15:56
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jBrereton posted:Ridiculous my-party-right-or-wrongism. Hmmm, yes that's definitely the entire cause of why Scottish Labour did so badly, it all happened in a vacuum and the media and referendum played no part in that whatsoever. Can't wait to get a new Labour leader in with some sick bantz to swing that vote back, it's sure to happen.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:58
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Paxman posted:It would certainly be an interesting experiment to see if Labour's polling picked up in those circumstances. Labour made gains in England in the last election under Ed Miliband who had his faults, though it lost far more seats in Scotland. I'm not sure the public has suddenly embraced fascism in the past 24 months and it should be possible at least to carry on making small gains in England (I'd love to be optimistic about Scotland too but I don't really know what's happening there). That's far short from what we really want of course, but it does look possible that Labour will actually make losses at the next election, which shouldn't happen. This is ignoring the whole Brexit thing, it's fundamentally changed the political situation and will have an ongoing effect (through the negotiations and them vs us mentality to the aftermath). Really the Tories shouldn't be as insanely popular as they are right now - even assuming the opposition is failing to score points, these are high numbers without anything to justify them. But because the Tories are 'delivering' Brexit, they benefit in terms of approval ratings and a general sense that the country is in safe and sensible hands, that they can get things done. An incumbent party with an assumption of competence is going to do well, even before you factor in the BRITANES CHAMPIGNONS support Until reality starts to rear its head and all the dreams and promises start to fall like the rains of disappointment, Theresa May is basically the loving Wizard of Oz. The question is whether that support will be eroded as the Brexit terms become more concrete, or if she'll become a kind of wartime PM and benefit from nationalism and the sense that it's all their fault and the Tories are fighting to protect us
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Mar 16, 2017 16:10
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Pissflaps posted:My choice is between labour or nobody. My local mp is a good lad and anti Corbyn so I'll probably vote for him. What if he were a good lad and supported Corbyn; what would you do then? Surely in by-elections, you vote for the MP that will best represent and serve your local area in Parliament. So, for example, you would still vote for this hypothetical Corbyn supporting "good lad". [edit] speeling not so gud Dead Goon fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 16:15
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Don't Lol me posted:Hmmm, yes that's definitely the entire cause of why Scottish Labour did so badly, it all happened in a vacuum and the media and referendum played no part in that whatsoever. A good Labour leader needs to be media savvy, hard working, and they need to surround themselves with similar people. You can't take the shadow cabinet meeting off because you were on the Marr show at the weekend. You can't not have a snappy, media savvy response to this disastrous national insurance gently caress up and expect to succeed. It's a genuine crisis. As someone who was disappointed in the PLP calling for a leadership election after the Brexit vote instead of seizing on the government's weakness, it has clearly taken so much energy out of Corbyn and his backers that he is no longer tenable as a leader, unfortunate though that is.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:18
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Tom Blenkinsop is a poo poo right? He's quoted in the Telegraph as going all in on Corbyn over a perceived failure of Labour to attack the Tories on the NI u-turn. Obviously he hasn't thought very hard about why Labour might not want to go whole hog on attacking Phillip Hammond on the subject of progressive tax increases...
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Mar 16, 2017 16:24
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Pochoclo posted:Resurrect Cromwell IMO but this time make sure he's atheist Wouldn't you just end up with Richard Dawkins with a knack for seventeenth-century military tactics? And since everyone's asking 'why aren't Labour speaking out about this?', here's McDonnell's column in the Mirror about the Budget and all the surrounding Tory bullshit.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:26
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Dead Goon posted:What if he were a good lad and supported Corbyn; what would you do then? Then my decision would be a lot easier. It's up to me on what basis I vote.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:29
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MikeCrotch posted:Obviously he hasn't thought very hard about why Labour might not want to go whole hog on attacking Phillip Hammond on the subject of progressive tax increases...
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Mar 16, 2017 16:29
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jBrereton posted:Scottish labour did so badly because their implicit and explicit values and ideas contrasted with what the much more dynamic SNP who turned into the mainstream centre-left party of Scotland, through hard graft and managing the media. Corbyn could be whip-smart media savvy Jesus and would get exactly the same coverage as now because the people that run the media will never allow a proper left wing view see the light of day. If the answer to getting more press is "Don't be left-wing then" you can go jump.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:31
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MikeCrotch posted:Tom Blenkinsop is a poo poo right? He's quoted in the Telegraph as going all in on Corbyn over a perceived failure of Labour to attack the Tories on the NI u-turn. Obviously he hasn't thought very hard about why Labour might not want to go whole hog on attacking Phillip Hammond on the subject of progressive tax increases... ...why wouldn't labour want to attack a government for breaking a manifesto promise, then doing a u-turn on imposing the tax change that broke it?
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Mar 16, 2017 16:32
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Kokoro Wish posted:Corbyn could be whip-smart media savvy Jesus and would get exactly the same coverage as now because the people that run the media will never allow a proper left wing view see the light of day. If the answer to getting more press is "Don't be left-wing then" you can go jump. Corbyn gets loads of coverage. You're deluding yourself.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:35
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Pissflaps posted:Then my decision would be a lot easier. Of course, just a hypothetical what-if kinda thing.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:35
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LemonDrizzle posted:You don't have to attack the policy to attack the government; it would be pretty easy to go after the government for being too weak to stand up to even the nuttiest of their own backbenchers (and use that as an excuse to open up the Things The Monday Clubbers Actually Believe And Want folder...). He did bring it up at PMQs and elsewhere , just not to the degree Blenkinsop would have liked. And does anyone give a poo poo about the Monday Club anymore? Seems like people have much more things to be concerned about coming from the right wing (e.g. the current PM) than a bunch of old dudes in a club with less than 600 members.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:38
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Darth Walrus posted:Wouldn't you just end up with Richard Dawkins with a knack for seventeenth-century military tactics?
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Mar 16, 2017 16:41
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn gets loads of coverage. You're deluding yourself. "Inequality? Pah! The law forbids both the rich man and the poor man equally from sleeping under a bridge."
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Mar 16, 2017 16:41
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