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More production issues, thankfully this time only delaying to later today.
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Mar 17, 2017 23:02
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drat high command spending resources on war effort instead of anime. 
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Mar 17, 2017 23:04
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Poil posted:drat high command spending resources on war effort instead of anime. The chart doesn't lie! 
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Mar 18, 2017 02:06
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I'm not sure what it does! 
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Mar 18, 2017 05:05
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paragon1 posted:I'm not sure what it does! I wanted to originally make a parody chart of Reagan's tax breaks chart / Laffer Curve but make it imply that you got more moe the more money you threw at anime; but I couldn't find one I could easily edit, so I went and found an Uncanny valley chart instead figuring I could put something humorous in the "Uncanny valley" pit, missed that there were two lines and couldn't figure out what the two lines should represent and so I just did whatever. But tbf your reaction I think is funnier than the chart so probably worth it.
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Mar 18, 2017 05:14
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Make sure you stick around after the credits for this one.
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Mar 18, 2017 08:46
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I like how every nation has their own style of flight unit for their mages.
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Mar 18, 2017 10:17
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Raenir Salazar posted:I wanted to originally make a parody chart of Reagan's tax breaks chart / Laffer Curve but make it imply that you got more moe the more money you threw at anime; but I couldn't find one I could easily edit, so I went and found an Uncanny valley chart instead figuring I could put something humorous in the "Uncanny valley" pit, missed that there were two lines and couldn't figure out what the two lines should represent and so I just did whatever. K-on is a lot more Moe than your chart shows
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Mar 18, 2017 10:27
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CrazySalamander posted:Make sure you stick around after the credits for this one. Suddenly I feel a little bad that he was shot down.
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Mar 18, 2017 14:07
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I hope he gets fished out too.  As much as Tanya is meant to be built up as this evil order obeying role perfectionist I love how the soldiers under her command we can generally root for. Once again we get another anachronism in the form of what I think are distinctly Panzer III's (Sd.Kfz.142) which were also only first produced in 1939 (Designed in 1935). I could see it being bumped up a decade assuming a constant investment of resources but I feel like that should still make it only beginning to be produced in 1928 ish. We should really be seeing Panzer II's instead even though the series is significant amounts of Gay Black Hitler material as it is, but industry trends of "Could the Germans have developed X by Y if they had enough effort and made the right choices?" is generally easier to speculate on. German and perhaps ironically, even allied tank development was largely strangled by the end of WWI as a victim of its own success. No one had the money to put into serious tank research during the early 20's other than the ordering of some prototype designs; the Weimar Republic and the Soviet union would start secret cooperative tank research in 1926 leading to the first Soviet mechanized brigade in 1929 using tanks whose designed was based off of the Renault FT; so you only really see more modernish tank designs start to take off and see wide spread production during the 30's. What's oddest is the complete lack of tanks before this point. Tanks aren't like cavalry where on the static front they would lack the mobility to navigate No Man's Land or the protection to survive machine guns. In WWI the British and French had been using tanks in piece meal roles since at least 1916 though it wouldn't be until 1918 that they were used to their fullest effect to break open German lines, but they had enough success to prompt requests by commanders for their full production. We probably should have been seeing their use in piece meal fashion by the Entente; the Empire taking note of this and producing their own, also using them in piecemeal fashion in response and then someone at General HQ suggesting "Hey what happens if you put them all together as one force at one point of the line?" right around the point the first design that has just enough protection and speed to be useful for mobile war. Operation "Revolving Door" seems to be heavily based off of the 1940 Fall Gelb offensive also known as the Manstein Plan. Although without the aspects of the Ardennes forest being weakly defended due to perceived impassibility for armour. Here they just used mines to literally blow open trenches recently captured by the Entente. Honestly I feel like the overall plan here had too many complex parts that relied a little too much on luck to pull off. Mainly Lock Pick; if it was just exploding out through relatively poorly defended forests on a quiet sector of the front it would've lessened how much depended on RNG. It will be interesting if a preference for complex interlocking plans leads to a fuckup, Admiral Yamamoto had a similar thing happen to him, he often liked to split up his forces that couldn't really coordinate to fulfill crazy complicated plans and this didn't work very well very often. From what I glanced at the Manga they had tanks in the opening chapter, so I wonder if we're just seeing some pacing issues.
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Mar 18, 2017 15:27
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Pacing id guess. The anime goes through the story very fast skipping a lot of backstory explanations. The manga handles this much better.
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Mar 18, 2017 15:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:Once again we get another anachronism in the form of what I think are distinctly Panzer III's (Sd.Kfz.142) which were also only first produced in 1939 (Designed in 1935).
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Mar 18, 2017 16:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:I hope he gets fished out too. Since the anime is ending in 3 episodes I have a theory Sounds like the Imperial army is gathering up in one place.... Could be a counter-ploy?
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Mar 18, 2017 17:09
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I saw rumours on reddit that we're getting a split cours/another 12 episodes. I don't think we're seeing a counterploy as I think abandoning good defencive ground and exposing your army to massive casualties isn't something any army would do; note how the Empire carefully withdraw to minimize casualties outside of a token rear guard. Assuming the show does follow proper military logic, counter attacking a counter attack is really hard and we've seen no indication that anyone in the Entente chain of command knows anything on their own; look at the planning and preparation on the Empire's side of things and how much the plan had to be disseminated down to junior officers.
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Mar 18, 2017 17:21
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Oh, the Entente are definitely not planning anything. But what about the other guys coming in? I've lost track of whether or not they're the Americans or the British.
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Mar 18, 2017 17:23
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Allied Kingdom is most definitely the UK in this rendition.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:05
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RangerKarl posted:Allied Kingdom is most definitely the UK in this rendition. Yeah I think they're doing the 1940 BEF thing. They are providing air cover and are trying to counterattack, can they succeed? No idea. But they're probably going to become the closest thing to killing Tanya since the start. Anyone know if the Not Soviets have a NAP with the Not Germans?
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Mar 18, 2017 18:08
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The Joint States of Amerika are probably just waiting for the right moment to swoop in and save the day, like usual.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:14
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Also a U-boat wouldn't be cruising along above water at this point. Even through WWII they spent most of their time on the surface and only submerged when preparing to engage or evade the enemy.
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Mar 18, 2017 19:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:Yeah I think they're doing the 1940 BEF thing. They are providing air cover and are trying to counterattack, can they succeed? No idea. But they're probably going to become the closest thing to killing Tanya since the start. They do in the manga.
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Mar 18, 2017 22:00
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So that actually made me think a bit, what's the history of the Soviet Union with such a powerful Germany? During WWI the Germans let Lenin go to Russia specifically so he could ferment Revolution to distract the Russian Empire from the war; which worked beautifully. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk gave the Germans a moment to catch their breath and send something like 18 divisions to the Western front for their last chance to end the war on something approaching decent terms. So definitely strange, how does Lenin get to end his exile from Tsarist Russia? Did Poland exist before this moment and did that prevent the Empire from invading Russia weakened by Civil War? Or were they too worried about the Entente? What prevented the Entente from intervening and sending supplies, arms, and small expeditionary forces to help the Whites just like historically? My guess is the Entente and Tsarist Russia were allied; somehow the Empire found the opportunity to let Lenin return, the Civil War happens but they don't intervene because they made an agreement with the Bolsheviks, "Hey, we won't touch you if you don't ally France?" And Lenin was like "Deal"? How the October Revolution happens without a disastrous war to break confidence in the Tsarist government or famines starving the cities driving the Proletariat into forming the Petrograd Soviet I dunno, but whatever. But timeline bits: Presumably the Bolsheviks fight a less devastating Civil War with less outside interference from the Entente and Americans, the Treaty on the Creation of the USSR and the Declaration of the Creation of the USSR are signed in 1922. A mere three years prior to the latest episode. Tanya would be around 8 years old now. Also in 1921-1922 the New Economic Policy was adopted during the 10th Party Congress; historically it would only be abolished by Joseph Stalin in 1928, which is still 3 years to happen. Lenin dies historically in 1924, Stalin would be appointed General Secretary of the Communist Party's Central Committee in 1922 and presumably consolidates his position between 1924-1928, though arguably he doesn't finish this process until after the Purges are launched after Kirov's murder. 1925 would put as at about when the NEP is in full swing and beginning to show a serious recovery of the Soviet economy, but also just before Stalin manages to secure his position; it could be very interesting if Trotsky succeeds in ousting Stalin and the NEP continues into the 30's, though it is unknown if the USSR would have sufficiently industrialized to have resisted the Nazi invasion without the sacrifices in blood, tears, and folly Stalin put the USSR through. It's interesting we've basically hard nothing about Russia from Tanya's perspective, especially since Viktoriya is apparently from Moscow and escaped the Reds during the Revolution. If this was a Harry Turtledove novel we'd be seeing/hearing news clips/newspaper articles/rumours and such of what's happening in Russia; could be problems with pacing that the LN/manga handles better but it seems like a missed opportunity when it comes to Viktoriya's characterization. But most importantly the USSR should probably not be in any condition to fight if anything at all like the Civil War or WWI happened (to prompt the Civil War); on the other hand since it seems like the Russians weren't involved with the fighting at all and somehow the Soviets won and took over without prompting of an outside foreign war and avoided the 5 million casualties and occupation from the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk; then maybe the USSR's economy is far closer to how it was in 1913 than it was historically? So perhaps the Russian Union or whatever its called here could potentially be our Cool Communist Antagonists of a later season? Just strong enough to be a threat, but weak enough that Tanya and the Empire are pretty much eye rollingly doomed as a result of their entry. This is why I get annoyed by the more egregious anachronisms like the Panzer III's because at this time The USSR doesn't even have this tank yet while the Germans get a design from 1939?. The Soviets shouldn't really have the industry at all to put out designs like The T-26 or the T-34 which would be the natural counter to the Panzer III. The Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant wouldn't be constructed until 1933 as a result of the first Five Year Plan, and Chelyabinsk, the Stalingrad Tractor Plan, etc were the massive Ford-style series production lines plants designed and built primarily with American assistance from Chrysler, GM, and Ford, and famous industrial architect Albert Kahn. Over at the Military History ASK/TELL thread (Really good thread, pro click) SA user Polyakov has an *awesome* series of effort posts on Soviet industrialization and their industrial organization that Wikipedia just doesn't tell me anything meaningfully about. Without these factories it's hard to imagine the Russian Union mass produces the vehicles they need to win; but if Germany has the Panzer III despite their own notorious screw ups with production and logistics then maybe Ford built those Tractor plants in Tanya's timeline? Who knows! This is where Alternative History takes on a certain amount of nerdy fun for me is looking at the timelines of when things happened and seeing where they fit. The Anime is really stretching things and I hope the LN/Manga doesn't basically.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:26
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Meanwhile Solanikov and Choconikov with the biological weapons
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Mar 19, 2017 05:58
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Raenir Salazar posted:Lots of speculation Well from what's been translated of the manga so far, not-Russia is only mentioned in the context of how they're a neighbor that isn't preying on the Empire because the historical alliance they had with the alliance wasn't continued, giving the Empire an opportunity to sign their own NAP with them. It definitely feels strange the way they've depicted tanks. With the way the episode unveiled the various plans to rout the Entente Alliance's main forces, I expected this to be the first use of tanks on the battlefield, but there's absolutely no fanfare when they're shown. Nobody boasts about their new tech. My only guess is that either they wanted something easily recognizable as tanks, or they just bought the models for the tanks or something.
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Mar 19, 2017 06:31
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Victoriya originates from Not Russia. (Rus Federation it appears to be called.)
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Mar 19, 2017 07:34
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Maybe a certain little girl wrote an essay on the proper design and use of armored fighting vehicles that managed to make its way into the hands of someone competent?  God gave the lunatic scientist inspiration to build not-V1 rockets so there's also that.
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Mar 19, 2017 10:47
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Its also possible that magic allows technology to advance faster somehow.
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Mar 19, 2017 12:32
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Iretep posted:Its also possible that magic allows technology to advance faster somehow. Well, magic is just another part of science and technology in that universe. It can be studied, used in experiments, repeat results, etc.
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Mar 19, 2017 23:46
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Iretep posted:Its also possible that magic allows technology to advance faster somehow. This only really goes so far; the work clearly wants some sort of internal logic and consistency and it's just unfortunate that the studio made these mistakes when in the manga/LN we have equipment that are far more justifiable.
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Mar 19, 2017 23:54
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I'm 100% sure the panzers are there because they look like what people think of as tanks and actual WWI tanks were hilarious.
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Mar 21, 2017 08:22
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Could have used interwar tanks, which were all either copies of tanks they bought from Vickers or copies of the French FT-17 they bought.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:59
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Interestingly the naming of the operation as "Revolving Door" probably has more in common with the so called Schlieffen Plan then with Fall Gelb boringly named "Case Yellow". Also of interesting, falling back into Imperial/German territory to expose the Entente to a flanking envelopment is probably the only way the Schlieffen Plan probably would've worked. It's main flaw was that the German forces exhausted themselves from the sheer speed of the march and distances covered; soldiers apparently falling asleep while walking and boots disintegrating according to the Military History thread. The nerd in me would have preferred it being a much more touch and go thing, older tanks, breaking down on the road; small local unsupported counter attacks disrupting the Imperials but not seriously endangering the overall plan and so on. I was pretty much in suspense most of the episode until the Panzer III's showed up.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:12
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People were talking about the rocket earlier (I just caught up with that episode.) For me I take the code name to show how the military tech is going off the rails at this point from our own development path, probably due to Being X meddling given who's involved. It basically has no resemblance to the real V-1 rocket, and is probably named victory not vengence. It could just be old rocket name it v1 whatever (like just make the tanks look like people's idea of "old" tanks.). But it's more fun for me to think that the mad scientist is making leaps and bounds in militech as Being X wants to escalate the war to run Tanya through an increasingly worse ringer
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Mar 21, 2017 22:28
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The problem is when these developments aren't happening in an apparently even manner aside from maybe the Entente having submachine guns. It's hard to see Tanya as facing a real threat when her side is handedly winning the Lensman Arms Race when the actual Germans were just inundated with barely functional at best boondoggles throughout the war. Apparently that V1 is accurate enough as a cruise missile to hit a bunker square on the nose dead center when the V1's and V2's had a hard enough time hitting London (Spies being flipped notwithstanding). Right now it isn't a huge issue because it's only these last two episodes that had these things starting to pop up but it's the long term implications of it that are problematic unless we see some the Not-Americans with Pershings.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:01
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:People were talking about the rocket earlier (I just caught up with that episode.) For me I take the code name to show how the military tech is going off the rails at this point from our own development path, probably due to Being X meddling given who's involved. It basically has no resemblance to the real V-1 rocket, and is probably named victory not vengence. It could just be old rocket name it v1 whatever (like just make the tanks look like people's idea of "old" tanks.). But it's more fun for me to think that the mad scientist is making leaps and bounds in militech as Being X wants to escalate the war to run Tanya through an increasingly worse ringer In the LN the mad scientists main weakness is he is so far ahead that his stuff is impossible to mass produce. Like the magic device tanya uses cant really be properly mass produced since all the parts are so complicated that you need a bunch of engineers fine tuning it. Which is also probably why everyone in the german army dont have the special magic device models Tanyas unit has, they are a pain in the rear end to make.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:13
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Raenir Salazar posted:The problem is when these developments aren't happening in an apparently even manner aside from maybe the Entente having submachine guns. It's hard to see Tanya as facing a real threat when her side is handedly winning the Lensman Arms Race when the actual Germans were just inundated with barely functional at best boondoggles throughout the war. Weren't Tanya and her squad directing the V1's? I mean, it's still a pretty accurate hit but we're talking about some form of guidance up until they eject, rather than real life V1's.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:31
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Argas posted:Weren't Tanya and her squad directing the V1's? I mean, it's still a pretty accurate hit but we're talking about some form of guidance up until they eject, rather than real life V1's. I hadn't considered that, though they did pop out prior to the missiles hitting and that raises some questions* about the ballistics of it, because it seemed like the missiles went in like a MIRV warhead. *That I'm not qualified to answer.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JExQpTuS8gc Hawawawa~
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Mar 22, 2017 02:03
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Isn't it Zawa zawa? I love these shorts.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:41
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Iretep posted:In the LN the mad scientists main weakness is he is so far ahead that his stuff is impossible to mass produce. Like the magic device tanya uses cant really be properly mass produced since all the parts are so complicated that you need a bunch of engineers fine tuning it. Which is also probably why everyone in the german army dont have the special magic device models Tanyas unit has, they are a pain in the rear end to make. Also her crystal doesn't actually work
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Mar 22, 2017 13:58
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Also her crystal doesn't actually work
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Mar 22, 2017 17:26
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