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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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blowfish posted:Labour disagrees with the wrong decisions, and then makes a u turn into agreeing with wrong decisions. Yeah that's true actually. I really believe that the ni thing was about testing he appetite for tax increases which is very clever by the Tories. Can't remember who itt raised this but I think they absolutely hit the nail on the head. 1997. 20 years ago now and the year in which sir tony of Blair was elected labours first ever prime minister
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Mar 19, 2017 15:05
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Taear posted:I guess when it comes down to it I just can't understand how you could ever go from the Tories right to Labour or the other way around. I know the general public doesn't really think in terms of right and left but it's anathema to me. The tories are perceived as more together despite being a complete shithouse with enough failures that they would have been wiped out in 2015 if they had been properly reported on. But we live in a country where the Indy told it's journalists not to badmouth the decision to put loving George Osborne as editor of the Evening standard so that's never going to happen. Edit: https://twitter.com/horton_official/status/842703562702553088
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Mar 19, 2017 15:10
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^^^^The appearance of competency by lack of exposure helps but only if it would damage the identification with the voters. As Corbyn and Diane Abbott shows, incompetent allies still attract lots of support.Taear posted:I guess when it comes down to it I just can't understand how you could ever go from the Tories right to Labour or the other way around. I know the general public doesn't really think in terms of right and left but it's anathema to me. It's a question of identity, not policy. The Tories are the party of Britain(England), the SNP the party of Scotland, UKIP the party of the white racist and the people who prioritise that identity (even if they themselves don't quite meet the right definition to belong to it) vote according to how well they feel an association with them, even if the policies won't do a drat thing to help them specifically. Labour is struggling because in a time of identity politics (boom boom) they're not quite fixed on theirs. namesake fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 15:09
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Labour has been the party of the North but that is now under threat.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:26
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Taear posted:I guess when it comes down to it I just can't understand how you could ever go from the Tories right to Labour or the other way around. I know the general public doesn't really think in terms of right and left but it's anathema to me. Because ideology doesn't matter to normal people. At best, the politicians are either trying hard and if they fail you gotta give the other guys a chance, or totally useless so you just vote against whoever seems even worse this week, depending on your degree of cynicism. At worst, it's just a team sport and it's more fun to cheer for the team that's better at grandstanding and winning.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:27
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Pissflaps posted:Labour has been the party of the North but that is now under threat. They've been saying that since 2010.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:29
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Fans posted:It's not really a shock that Smith voters aren't loyal to Corbyn is it? Owen Smith wasn't an option for them either. This is a stupid chart. It also shows that 60% of Corbyn voters are loyal to the Labour party which given the large margin Corbyn won by means that about the same number of members are loyal to the Labour party in both camps.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:48
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Lord of the Llamas posted:It also shows that 60% of Corbyn voters are loyal to the Labour party which given the large margin Corbyn won by means that about the same number of members are loyal to the Labour party in both camps. And a large number of Corbyn supporters have little or no loyalty to the Labour Party. Probably because they don't vote labour.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:50
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Pissflaps posted:And a large number of Corbyn supporters have little or no loyalty to the Labour Party. I agree that it's a terrible shame that New Labour alienated these people.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:54
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I agree that it's a terrible shame that New Labour alienated these people. How do you know New Labour alienated those people?
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Mar 19, 2017 15:56
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Pissflaps posted:And a large number of Corbyn supporters have little or no loyalty to the Labour Party. That poll just says that 30% have more loyalty to Corbyn than to Labour. There is no information about their reasons for this. If I were one of them (I don't have loyalty to Labour, though I have an equally "just-about left" choice in the SNP) I would value a leader who actually put values I prefer ahead of the name of the party.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:58
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LemonDrizzle posted:if you're going to post results from that yougov poll you shouldn't miss out this one I want to have words with everyone who voted in this. More Corbyn supporters like Ramsay MacDonald than Blairites? Owen Smith voters rate KINNOCK over Keir Hardie? Attlee should have gotten a vote from everyone. I also like that John Smith is the only leader from the last 100 years that everyone agrees on. Probably the advantage of dying before doing much, you can be everything to everyone.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:59
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blowfish posted:Because ideology doesn't matter to normal people. At best, the politicians are either trying hard and if they fail you gotta give the other guys a chance, or totally useless so you just vote against whoever seems even worse this week, depending on your degree of cynicism. At worst, it's just a team sport and it's more fun to cheer for the team that's better at grandstanding and winning. I did say that in my post! I just can't understand that mindset is what I'm saying.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:59
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Pissflaps posted:How do you know New Labour alienated those people? Probably something to do with their appalling electoral performance and then replacement of their New Labour leader with a left wing alternative over the New Labour candidates?
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Mar 19, 2017 16:00
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Pissflaps posted:How do you know New Labour alienated those people? I've met a lot of these people. How do you know they don't vote Labour?
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Mar 19, 2017 16:00
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Pissflaps is canon
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Mar 19, 2017 16:07
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mehall posted:That poll just says that 30% have more loyalty to Corbyn than to Labour. Who is putting the name of the party first do you think
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Mar 19, 2017 16:08
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Student politics  
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Mar 19, 2017 16:10
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I've met a lot of these people. Why the hell are you still replying to Pissflaps when you know that all he's doing is trying to bait you into the same circular argument?
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Mar 19, 2017 16:16
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My Malaysian girlfriend has been sending me messages threatening to kill herself for three days now. She grew up in the UK where we met (and she has a degree from Cambridge in a fairly in-demand field), but for various reasons (lol immigration policy) has to be in Malaysia now, and by all accounts Malaysian mental health sucks pretty hard, not that she wants to be there anyway. I'm not really able to just go see her there right now, and she's been accusing me of abuse (wrongly, she has BPD and, well, yeah, from time to time she thinks everyone in her life is abusing her, from family through friends, boyfriends, former work, uni, colleagues, etc.) so I'm not sure if she'd even want to spend time with me. I know this is more E/N but there's a couple mental health professionals on here so I thought I'd ask if anyone has any ideas on where to get help. To tie it into politics immigration rules for non-EU-citizens are awful, even for people like her who by all accounts are quite qualified, have a long history in the UK and are relatively desirable (mental illness notwithstanding). We don't want to get married but honestly even then who knows if it would help long-term, what with Brexit and everything. e: To clarify she's lived in the UK since early childhood up to a short time ago, and in many ways feel more at home here. Her entire time at school has been here for one. Oh and she's already made a suicide attempt in the UK a few years back, too. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 16:18
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Not So Fast posted:Sadly, as dumb as the British public can be, you need these things called "votes" in an "election" to gain power. Whining about media bias doesn't cut it. Which is why 2017 is centernary of the February Democratic Abdication of Tsar Nicolas II and the October Democratic Establishment of the Russian Soviet Republic.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:02
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Taear posted:Why the hell are you still replying to Pissflaps when you know that all he's doing is trying to bait you into the same circular argument? What is circular about acknowledging that under Corbyn labour has become a farce?
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Mar 19, 2017 17:15
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Pretty much all of the arguments against Corbyn's failure are defeatist. Its "the British public has no appetite for left wing politics", its "the media hates him because its all right wing", its "New Labour keep sabotaging him". These aren't brick walls that hes running up against. He always has options at every obstacle, its just that hes consistently chosen the worst ones.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:34
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Possibly old news, but how does someone get to be a Labour councillor holding views like this about the homeless?quote:A Labour councillor who branded Oxford's homeless people "a disgrace" has visited a soup kitchen to "eat humble pie".
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Mar 19, 2017 18:01
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Nick Cohen being the delightful Nick Cohen https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/jeremy-corbyn-labour-threat-party-election-support?CMP=soc_3156 quote:Don’t tell me you weren’t warned about Corbyn Private Speech posted:My Malaysian girlfriend has been sending me messages threatening to kill herself for three days now. She grew up in the UK where we met (and she has a degree from Cambridge in a fairly in-demand field), but for various reasons (lol immigration policy) has to be in Malaysia now, and by all accounts Malaysian mental health sucks pretty hard, not that she wants to be there anyway. I'm not really able to just go see her there right now, and she's been accusing me of abuse (wrongly, she has BPD and, well, yeah, from time to time she thinks everyone in her life is abusing her, from family through friends, boyfriends, former work, uni, colleagues, etc.) so I'm not sure if she'd even want to spend time with me. I know this is more E/N but there's a couple mental health professionals on here so I thought I'd ask if anyone has any ideas on where to get help. sever
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Mar 19, 2017 18:11
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Taear posted:I did say that in my post! I just can't understand that mindset is what I'm saying. normal people want their lives to stay good (or, if they are currently poor, want to be richer and often assume they might one day succeed there) doesn't matter who makes it happen or how
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Mar 19, 2017 18:11
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ThomasPaine posted:Nick Cohen being the delightful Nick Cohen He makes some good points.
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Mar 19, 2017 18:15
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ThomasPaine posted:Nick Cohen being the delightful Nick Cohen
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Mar 19, 2017 18:17
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Taear posted:I guess when it comes down to it I just can't understand how you could ever go from the Tories right to Labour or the other way around. I know the general public doesn't really think in terms of right and left but it's anathema to me. People ask questions like "which party is most likely to keep me in my job" and "which party is most likely to keep the local hospital open", and the answers to those questions can change in their eyes. Some of us might think it's obvious that the Tories hate the NHS and Labour loves the NHS, but it's not obvious to a lot of voters. It's even less obvious which party is going to create jobs, given that this is usually seen as a result of "managing the economy effectively" which is a pretty nebulous concept.
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Mar 19, 2017 18:36
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Private Speech posted:My Malaysian girlfriend has been sending me messages threatening to kill herself for three days now. She grew up in the UK where we met (and she has a degree from Cambridge in a fairly in-demand field), but for various reasons (lol immigration policy) has to be in Malaysia now, and by all accounts Malaysian mental health sucks pretty hard, not that she wants to be there anyway. I'm not really able to just go see her there right now, and she's been accusing me of abuse (wrongly, she has BPD and, well, yeah, from time to time she thinks everyone in her life is abusing her, from family through friends, boyfriends, former work, uni, colleagues, etc.) so I'm not sure if she'd even want to spend time with me. I know this is more E/N but there's a couple mental health professionals on here so I thought I'd ask if anyone has any ideas on where to get help. This would be one for legal advice if she wanted to come back here for treatment, the problem would be if she does not qualify for NHS treatment then she probably won't qualify for private insurance as it's a pre-existing condition. Only thing I can do is give you the link to mind so you can phone them for advice and support http://mind.org.uk .
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Mar 19, 2017 18:40
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's just loving sad, and I'm beginning to come around to the cult of personality idea about Corbyn fans, because I'm fairly certain even Corbyn doesn't think he's better than Attlee. To be fair if you don't know much political history you don't know who Attlee is and in living memory your options are probably Corbyn, Blair, Miliband or Brown. EDIT: On the subject, not surprised a lot of Corbyn-voting people aren't so loyal given the massive disenfranchisement campaign against them personally and the obvious lack of loyalty towards Corbyn. It's all well and good to say "Corbyn can't command their respect", but if you support Corbyn and see the other instruments of power in the party refusing to very vocally, it's hardly a puzzling response. spectralent fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 18:51
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Paxman posted:People ask questions like "which party is most likely to keep me in my job" and "which party is most likely to keep the local hospital open", and the answers to those questions can change in their eyes. Some of us might think it's obvious that the Tories hate the NHS and Labour loves the NHS, but it's not obvious to a lot of voters. It's even less obvious which party is going to create jobs, given that this is usually seen as a result of "managing the economy effectively" which is a pretty nebulous concept. And we also hit the "people are idiots" issue pretty quick, because a lot of people are asking the wrong questions because their premises are flawed and they overestimate crime and fraud and underestimate the impact of global warming.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:00
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I'd love to run a poll company.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:04
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ThomasPaine posted:Nick Cohen being the delightful Nick Cohen I know this point has been hammered over and over but the Labour Party said absolutely loads about the budget. It was all over their twitter, they said stuff on the news. But it wasn't in the papers. Why would the Daily Mail report what labour has to say about something though? I don't know what he expects Labour to actually DO there.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:07
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Taear posted:I know this point has been hammered over and over but the Labour Party said absolutely loads about the budget. It was all over their twitter, they said stuff on the news. But it wasn't in the papers. Why would the Daily Mail report what labour has to say about something though? I don't know what he expects Labour to actually DO there. Not being hammered enough, as I still see "where are Labour on this?!" rearing its head in this thread. I, too, would love to hear what the solution is beyond hoping the Daily Mail will give column inches to Labour under a new leader out of the kindness of their heart.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:22
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I would actually be curious what the process of getting stuff in papers/news segments is, since I don't know very much about it. I know for the sciences it's "university publishes a brief, hopes someone notices", but presumably there's more to it for politicians.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:26
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Gorn Myson posted:Pretty much all of the arguments against Corbyn's failure are defeatist. Its "the British public has no appetite for left wing politics", its "the media hates him because its all right wing", its "New Labour keep sabotaging him". Most of Corbyn's supporters are fairly realistic about his leadership abilities. What a lot of us want is another left-wing leader, but that can't happen until there's a rule change to ensure they get on the ballot. ThomasPaine posted:Nick Cohen being the delightful Nick Cohen I've seen this opinion a few times and it never ceases to amaze. Who shall we blame for Tory policies? The Tories? The people who support them? Nah, let's blame the people who are completely ideologically opposed to them. That makes good logical sense.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:28
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ThomasPaine posted:Nick Cohen being the delightful Nick Cohen That loving grotesque, every time he types out an article I want someone to go round with a hammer and break his fingers.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:38
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Prince John posted:I, too, would love to hear what the solution is beyond hoping the Daily Mail will give column inches to Labour under a new leader out of the kindness of their heart. Be a plausible next government, so that your position on things matter more than a wet fart, You know who else can't get coverage of their policy positions? The Lib Dems. Is that really because they are radicals the Man is running scared of? Or is it just because nothing they say will ever take place?
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Mar 19, 2017 19:43
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radmonger posted:Be a plausible next government, so that your position on things matter more than a wet fart, OK but you are aware that nothing that Corbyn has proposed is impossible or even particularly unusual in terms of social democratic governance right? Local investment funds, wealth taxes, publishing income differentials, etc. How is plausible government to be defined? Ability to get elected is a worthless definition if only one party or one general bracket of policy will ever be allowed to get elected.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:47
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