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[[ Please wait, retrieving information... ]]Spring Break My Heart posted:I don't think that's true either, since one of the issues with taking kickers is that there are a lot of good ones available every year as cheap free agents. No there isn't. Kicker is almost as bad as QB when it comes to quality at the position. korrandark fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 02:07
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Edit not quote.
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Mar 19, 2017 02:09
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korrandark posted:No there isn't. Kicker is almost as bad as QB when it comes to quality at the position. Kickers do not absolutely kill teams though, so even if we accept this (and I do not) it becomes much less worthwhile to spend a draft pick on one. I'm sure Minnesota fans and maybe old Bills fans will tell me they kill seasons and I'll tell them to gently caress off, because it happened to me too and the problem was the actual football players didn't do their jobs.
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Mar 19, 2017 02:30
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Grittybeard posted:Kickers do not absolutely kill teams though, so even if we accept this (and I do not) it becomes much less worthwhile to spend a draft pick on one. Counterpoint: The Bengals last year.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:08
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korrandark posted:[[ Please wait, retrieving information... ]] Even if this were true (it isn't) it wouldn't follow that you should try to find a kicker in the draft, since that would require that NFL front offices were adept at scouting them, and they aren't. Kickers are cheap to sign and hard to scout, which means sorting through the pile until you find one that sticks is the exact right approach.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:16
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Volkerball posted:If you try to kick a 74 yard field goal and don't even consider that hey, maybe this might not make the distance and they'll try to return it, it's not the kickers fault. of course not it's the refs because had they reviewed it properly they would have seen that guy step on the white line during the return
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Mar 19, 2017 03:25
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Considering how inconsistent all kickers, including the best of the best, were last year with elongated extra point, there is a strong argument in the minimal value provided by kickers in today's NFL. Why wasting limited resources on a kicker when even the absolute elite in the game today are shanking kicks? Spend the time and money on other aspects of the team so that you never are in a position to depend on the kicker in the first place.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:26
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korrandark posted:Counterpoint: The Bengals last year. Nugent was 48/49 on extra points the previous year.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:27
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I mean if the point was that kickers can kill a season he absolutely did more than his share. As did Fat Randy. but that doesn't make me feel like drafting a kicker high is good
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Mar 19, 2017 03:42
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Cavauro posted:I mean if the point was that kickers can kill a season he absolutely did more than his share. As did Fat Randy. but that doesn't make me feel like drafting a kicker high is good I never said anything about drafting a kicker. My point was that it was bullshit that there are a bunch of good kickers just waiting to get snapped up.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:48
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big money big clit posted:Nugent was 48/49 on extra points the previous year. Yeah, kickers have a huge variance year to year, and the generic kickers you can find have such a relatively high floor. Kickers do provide a bit more value when it comes to touchbacks, but that value has been eroded by rule changes. There is something to be said about the best kickers allowing you to try longer FG's, but I don't think that matters that much and might even be a negative reinforcement since you should pretty much never gameplan around trying a 45+ yard FG. That said, each year there's 2-5 teams with an awful kicking situation, and you really just don't want to be one of those teams, and sometimes a 5th round pick can make that problem very unlikely for awhile, so go for it. But beyond that, the difference between a top 5 kicker and one of the worst in a given season is like 4-5 missed FG's really, add in a TD's worth of missed extra points and that's still just a a tiny variance between one of the best and one of the worst. (Compare to say, the difference between one of the top 5 tight ends and like, one of the Jets' TE's).
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Mar 19, 2017 03:51
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Also worth mentioning that teams shouldn't need or want an elite kicker until the team is already competitive. Kicking is conservative, and playing conservatively only benefits that favored team. An underdog pissing away opportunities for 4th down plays and 2 point conversions because they want to trot out the world's greatest kicker undermines the primary high variance strategies they need to be using to have any chance at winning. Kickers are only important for the winning team, because it allows their low variance choices to have the highest expected value. It's possible a peak Gostkowski is worth a 1st to the Pats. This was an issue of a front office that didn't understand why a peak Gostkowski isn't worth anything close to that for them too.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:53
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korrandark posted:I never said anything about drafting a kicker. My point was that it was bullshit that there are a bunch of good kickers just waiting to get snapped up. Right, I was trying agree and point out that it's irrelevant if Nugent was better in the past since he hosed them up pretty bad either way. Just didn't say it that well
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Mar 19, 2017 03:56
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Cavauro posted:Right, I was trying agree and point out that it's irrelevant if Nugent was better in the past since he hosed them up pretty bad either way. Just didn't say it that well I'm sorry too. We should be talking about cool stuff, like Kevin Minter signing with the Bengals.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:00
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It's a one year deal so they'll probably still draft an ILB early. It owns. Hopefully it's THE CHEF
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Mar 19, 2017 04:04
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I am just happy they signed someone who hasn't been on the team before. Him being a need position is just gravy.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:07
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korrandark posted:I never said anything about drafting a kicker. My point was that it was bullshit that there are a bunch of good kickers just waiting to get snapped up. Ted Nugent was a good kicker in 2015 and a bad kicker in 2016. That's because the difference between a good NFL kicker and a bad one isn't that great. The fact that they are generally so good makes the bad streaks really stand out. It's definitely nothing like the disparity between the best and worst QBs.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:10
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big money big clit posted:It's definitely nothing like the disparity between the best and worst QBs. Imagine if it was. Imagine if every QB was like Ryan Fitzpatrick.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:15
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Kickers are more important than anyone else, in the lives of their children. youve lost the argument to me
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Mar 19, 2017 04:27
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Cavauro posted:Kickers are more important than anyone else, in the lives of their children. youve lost the argument to me Less so in the lives of spouses.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:29
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Shayne Graham went to my high school to give us a massive check to buy a turf football field. Two seasons later, iirc, he lost the Bengals a playoff game and was released The moral of the story is don't give bad HS programs a $750k check because you'll be cursed in a small way several years later
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Mar 19, 2017 04:44
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SKULL.GIF posted:http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/washington-redskins-nfl-dysfunction-scot-mccloughan-dan-snyder-bruce-allen gently caress this stupid team. It really does belong in Washington.
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Mar 19, 2017 12:47
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big money big clit posted:Ted Nugent was a good kicker in 2015 and a bad kicker in 2016. Mike Nugent hasn't been a good kicker since 2011. Unless you believe being near the bottom of the league in field goal accuracy and having no range makes a good kicker. The blame for it getting so bad lands on the Bengals for keeping him so long.
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Mar 19, 2017 12:52
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Grittybeard posted:Kickers do not absolutely kill teams though, so even if we accept this (and I do not) it becomes much less worthwhile to spend a draft pick on one. gently caress Blair Walsh, and gently caress Gary Anderson
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Mar 19, 2017 14:39
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Burginator posted:gently caress Blair Walsh, and gently caress Gary Anderson You know that Blair Walsh is going to hit a game winning field goal during the playoffs against the Vikings at some point in his career, right?
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Mar 19, 2017 14:44
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Whooping Crabs posted:You know that Blair Walsh is going to hit a game winning field goal during the playoffs against the Vikings at some point in his career, right? Oh yeah, I'm fully aware. My liver has been preparing itself for that night for years, and I fear that it will not be powerful enough when that day comes. Burginator fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 14:46
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Trading into the second for a kicker lmao
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Mar 19, 2017 15:11
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Kalli posted:Imagine if it was. We would have no idea that they were bad and just assume that the forward pass isn't a reliable method for playing the game, and it would be 50s football Which probably means the NFL would have folded or at the very least wouldn't be popular
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Mar 19, 2017 15:32
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Whooping Crabs posted:You know that Blair Walsh is going to hit a game winning field goal during the playoffs against the Vikings at some point in his career, right? And he's going to do it for Seattle 
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Mar 19, 2017 18:01
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FizFashizzle posted:Trading into the second for a kicker lmao Remember that year carolina lost like 4 games becasue of olindo mare because the team decided to short Kasay like 500k. Then he went to the saints and was good.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:14
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https://twitter.com/oneangrymidget/status/843619402058809344 I get all my Saints news from angry midgets.
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Mar 20, 2017 05:02
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https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/843805924938694656
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Mar 20, 2017 13:47
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Better thank McCown I guess. Or not. All is lost. Send help.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:53
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Diva Cupcake posted:Better thank McCown I guess. Or not. I for one am excited. Chase was the real deal, we all got sidetracked by Gabbert. Honestly though given the other options if you're not going after Cutler (or Romo somehow) he seems fine? He'll throw less interceptions than Fitz and you don't have to commit to him, and you're tanking anyhow.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:59
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Maybe we can bring back Brad Smith to steal his job.
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Mar 20, 2017 14:04
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Diva Cupcake posted:Better thank McCown I guess. Or not. Does it really matter at this point?
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Mar 20, 2017 14:34
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Ehud who is Jelani Jenkins and if you post anything other than glowing reviews I'm going to start cherry picking in his PFF numbers
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Mar 20, 2017 15:04
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Blitz7x posted:Ehud who is Jelani Jenkins and if you post anything other than glowing reviews I'm going to start cherry picking in his PFF numbers Can be pretty good if healthy, can be pretty awful if not. Was mostly column two last year, hence being a FA that none of the Dolph-bros give a poo poo about.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:11
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Chase Daniel is 30, has thrown 78 passes in his career, and has made almost $20 million Good work if you can get it
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Mar 20, 2017 15:53
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Jenkins had a few great plays and showed potential but his injuries have made him slow He was a backup on the worst LB unit in the NFL last year so
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Mar 20, 2017 16:08
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