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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/843812567587983360 it's just a flesh wound
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Mar 20, 2017 15:16
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LemonDrizzle posted:Lansman, not Glasman - the latter is the guy behind Blue Labour, and I can't imagine he has a whole lot of time for Momentum or its supporters. lol I keep getting those mixed up for some reason
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Mar 20, 2017 15:17
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Breath Ray posted:I can't parse this but I do have a question. Would you like to see a token lefty on each leadership ballot? I think I would. Although it might push the others further to the right. Personally, definitely. Though I'd like some kind of selection still so we can avoid a "it's obviously a joke spot so let's just put up jam grandpa for a laugh even though he doesn't want it" thing. Rigged Death Trap posted:Lansman thanks rigged death trap thrigged threath thrap
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Mar 20, 2017 15:17
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/843812567587983360 Yeah definitely hung parliament territory this.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:18
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Factionalist splitters are all the same to me
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Mar 20, 2017 15:18
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Jakabite posted:Is that really the best way? I assumed there'd be some sort of arcane online platform that was optimal for this sort of thing. If you want cash in hand, Post office is easily the best. You can order online for a slightly better rate, and pick it up at any one that does money exchange.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:23
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So the Tories break a manifesto promise, get pilloried for it in the right wing press, perform an embarrassing u-turn and Corbyn and McDonnell still can't turn it to their advantage, instead dropping further behind a government two years into its term. loving hell.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:30
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I blame the uncritical masses
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Mar 20, 2017 15:53
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spectralent posted:Personally, definitely. Though I'd like some kind of selection still so we can avoid a "it's obviously a joke spot so let's just put up jam grandpa for a laugh even though he doesn't want it" thing. Momentum could run the token lefty selection process..but would it be possible to vote for £3?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:02
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:Momentum should be purged to be honest and i hope Watson is the man to do it Aye, at exactly the same time that Progress is purged.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:07
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Pissflaps posted:So the Tories break a manifesto promise, get pilloried for it in the right wing press, perform an embarrassing u-turn and Corbyn and McDonnell still can't turn it to their advantage, instead dropping further behind a government two years into its term. Hmmm, wonder what that would be? It's not as if they have not constantly been hammering it home, it's almost as if there's some strange kind of disconnect between those polled and reality?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:08
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Don't Lol me posted:Hmmm, wonder what that would be? It's not as if they have not constantly been hammering it home, it's almost as if there's some strange kind of disconnect between those polled and reality? No. People think labour under Corbyn is poo poo. And they're right.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:14
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Pissflaps posted:No. People think labour under Corbyn is poo poo. Yes, we know your opinion on that - shame people vote for a person instead of policies or reconsider their vote based on the number of gently caress ups by the current government. So what next? You have anyone in mind to replace him?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:20
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spectralent posted:That's not the part the news lead with which is weird because that actually does sound like something you could justifiably be mad about, but I also feel like membership rules are generally kind of dumb so it doesn't personally upset me since I'd prefer labour convert other left-wingers under FPTP. it was in the original Observer exposé - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour quote:Lansman says on the tape that Corbyn and John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, personally asked him to exclude members of the Socialist party (the successor to Militant Tendency) from Momentum owing to the embarrassment they were causing. But he made clear to the audience that, despite changing Momentum’s rules so that only people who were Labour members could join, this would not be enforced in such a way as to exclude people. “There is no one to my knowledge in Momentum – certainly not me – who wishes to exclude people. It was important to require Labour party membership in the rules, but it is down to enforcement. No one from the centre is going to tell you to kick people out.” you mean "the membership rules are dumb", not "membership rules are dumb" right? had a laugh when I thought for a second you meant no rules so even George Galloway would be allowed in. Momentum's new rule change excluding current members of other parties is compatible with your goal of conversion. all they need to do is resign from the the SWP or Lib Dems or whatever.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:22
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Don't Lol me posted:Yes, we know your opinion on that - shame people vote for a person instead of policies or reconsider their vote based on the number of gently caress ups by the current government. So what next? What's next is for Corbyn to lose the next general election in humiliating fashion so that Labour can move on and start to repair the damage in time for 2030.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:26
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LordVorbis posted:If you want cash in hand, Post office is easily the best. You can order online for a slightly better rate, and pick it up at any one that does money exchange. thomasexchangeglobal always beat the post office rate
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Mar 20, 2017 16:27
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How about, instead of punishing everyone by letting him do what you think he is doing, we say change leadership to a more palatable person with the same ideas next year? Allows enough time to get the public used to them and drain some of the poison from the media? Seems a bit spiteful otherwise, since you say you're actually a Labour kinda guy and supposed to be roughly on the same side.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:30
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Cerv posted:thomasexchangeglobal always beat the post office rate
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Mar 20, 2017 16:37
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Cerv posted:it was in the original Observer exposé - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour Yeah, typo. It seems pretty clear what's meant, there, and it seems to be in response to stuff that happened in the last leadership election where people were suspended for incredibly marginal commentary in favour of other left wing parties. It's kind of a sad state for a nominally left-wing party to be in where left-wingers who're interested in joining would be scared off, but there we go.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:37
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Don't Lol me posted:How about, instead of punishing everyone by letting him do what you think he is doing, we say change leadership to a more palatable person with the same ideas next year? Allows enough time to get the public used to them and drain some of the poison from the media? Spite? It's not up to me what happens. I'm not a labour member. The Party membership has spoken. They want Corbyn as leader. Any attempt to change that will just give his supporters the opportunity to try to avoid responsibility for the consequences of his leadership. Let him lose badly, let him and his superfans skulk off and then rebuild. At this point that's the most optimistic scenario.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:38
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Don't Lol me posted:How about, instead of punishing everyone by letting him do what you think he is doing, we say change leadership to a more palatable person with the same ideas next year? Allows enough time to get the public used to them and drain some of the poison from the media?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:39
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Also everyone please stop talking to pissflaps, it makes some of these pages unreadable and it's just going to be: 1. Corbyn bad 2. Corbyn go. 3. Corbyn bad. in that order forever. It's the most minimum-effort trolling ever and I'm disappointed in the thread for repeatedly falling for it. jBrereton posted:Why would you want someone with the same ideas as Corbyn after Corbyn? The guy was an unhappy serf who ran the party into the ground, you need to distance yourself from that even if in your heart of hearts you might want an end to trident and private schools or whatever. There are other things Labour continues to stand for that are quite different to the Tories other than the most visible Corbyn Issues. On the things that are important there's a lack of trust that they are different. There still seems to be an issue, given Blue Labour viewpoints that pop up in interviews all the time. Would a Labour, independent of Corbyn, be committed to opposing austerity and reversing the damage of cuts, in particular in health and social care? That's ultimately going to be a bellyfeel issue, but I don't really trust that they would given they were promising to be even worse than the tories last election. spectralent fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 16:40
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spectralent posted:Also everyone please stop talking to pissflaps, it makes some of these pages unreadable and it's just going to be: I don't want Corbyn to go, little cheerleader.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:41
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Pissflaps, instead of posting why don't you do something for your community, or join your local Labour Party. Or volunteer at a food bank or soup kitchen?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:44
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jBrereton posted:Why would you want someone with the same ideas as Corbyn after Corbyn? The guy was an unhappy serf who ran the party into the ground, you need to distance yourself from that even if in your heart of hearts you might want an end to trident and private schools or whatever. There are other things Labour continues to stand for that are quite different to the Tories other than the most visible Corbyn Issues. because socialism is important, and corbyn's policies are popular? That's a pretty simple reason. If you think giving up on loving grammar schools is worth it then you're just demonstrating a strong argument to keep corbyn.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:45
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Spangly A posted:because socialism is important, and corbyn's policies are popular? I think it was the guy from breaking bad who so famously said, the product is good, it's distribution that's the problem.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:52
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spectralent posted:Also everyone please stop talking to pissflaps, it makes some of these pages unreadable and it's just going to be: I'll be quiet - it's pretty plain that there's no self awareness about the whole situation, and that it's all about being right instead of actually doing anything or improving things. On your other point, i'd say that most wouldn't ever reconsider until they're informed by the press or get affected by it directly (care, nursing, wait times, etc). Can't see it happening for the time being though.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:53
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Don't Lol me posted:I'll be quiet - it's pretty plain that there's no self awareness about the whole situation, and that it's all about being right instead of actually doing anything or improving things. you say this now lol
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Mar 20, 2017 16:55
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Jose posted:you say this now lol Ha, sometimes you can't stop yourself squeezing that blackhead, even though you know it's going to make it worse.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:57
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Digging into the ICM tables, some tit bits just looking at the weighted Lab-Con margin: In the North of England, Labour's collapse is most dramatic, dropping from a 10 pt lead over the tories in 2015 to being 1 pt behind. This is actually greater than their decline in the south. The Midlands show the least change in England. The gap is loving huge amongst over 65s, dropping from an 18% deficit to a 39% deficit. The more 'interested' in politics you are, the lower the relative support of Labour. Labour only leads amongst people 'not at all interested' in politics. On article 50, the most common positive emotion amongst Lab-intend voters is 'excited' at 14%. 48% of Lab intend voters are worried. Overall the population is 39% worried, 25% pleased. There's also a question about honesty, but it seems like a proxy for vote intention, really. https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2017_guardian_march17_poll2.pdf
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Mar 20, 2017 16:58
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spectralent posted:I think it was the guy from breaking bad who so famously said, the product is good, it's distribution that's the problem. I've seen, over the last month in particular, nearly all the corbyn supporters and regular posters in this thread agree that the second leadership election did him in. I *want* him to turn it around but I no longer think he's capable of anything except holding Labour intact until a suitable replacement can be moved in, and frankly it looks like the option to do this for 2025 and not 2020 has expired. But jesus christ grammar schools. Do people even know why these matter so drat much? They're an excuse to further defund mainstream education. The local schools around here, with the exception of the two grammars becoming academies, are set to lose 5-6 figures annually. Letting the government continue with this would be devastating, I can't understand how this isn't considered a suitable hill for any labour politician to die on. Christ, Corbyn's even beating May on the matter, and it's straight from the nasty party playbook in the first place, so it's hardly defensible. Thatcher's education reforms were catastrophic and the knockon effects are seen today with school leavers less capable of basic writing and mathematics than retirees, an effect that was brand-new to British democracy when it started a year or two ago. The education of children at school being botched might not always be immediately apparent with the importance of their parents education being a huge factor in childhood outcomes, but their kids don't have that. Fangz posted:
Everyone seems to have forgotten this but Corbyn's biggest votebase 1st time round wasn't clearly students or young adults, it was retirement age men close to and at times above them. Given they actually vote that's an election deathknell. Good look getting third-wayism to appeal to them lol Spangly A fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 16:59
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Fangz posted:Digging into the ICM tables, some tit bits just looking at the weighted Lab-Con margin: I've been reliably informed by this thread that this isn't possible. What's going on?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:00
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I'd like to thank 'Flaps. His incessant wrangling of the conversation back to Corbyn every page, in addition to the tacit acknowledgement that Tony Did Nothing Wrong, has made me question my beliefs. I'm now definitely more enamoured with revolutionary socialism. Democratic socialism, social democracy and the Peoples' Front of Judea are dead in this country. Rosa was right.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:00
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haakman posted:I'm now definitely more enamoured with revolutionary socialism. Democratic socialism, social democracy and the Peoples' Front of Judea are dead in this country. Rosa was right. This seems like a positive outcome for the Labour Party.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:02
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Don't Lol me posted:I'll be quiet - it's pretty plain that there's no self awareness about the whole situation, and that it's all about being right instead of actually doing anything or improving things. Well, quite. Like, this is basically the problem. I don't particularly care about Corbyn, himself, except to the degree to which he appears to be literally the only person in Labour prepared to go up on a stage and say "actually loving up hospitals and schools is bad?". In so much as getting rid of him would let Labour "do things" and "be credible" or whatever, my overwhelming impression is that they'd go straight back to parroting Tory stuff about economic credibility and now throw so mild racism in to placate brexiteers, especially given how violently they've rejected anyone left wing, repeatedly and visibly. I don't want that to happen; I want a Labour that does things and is credible and is doing those things with stuff that's actually good, both now and long-term, for the country. The obvious question is can a Labour party that proposes stopping cuts be considered "credible" by the media bubble we have, which seems to be a significant issue, but "gently caress the press" is probably also well-trod ground.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:02
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JFairfax posted:Pissflaps, instead of posting why don't you do something for your community, or join your local Labour Party. Or volunteer at a food bank or soup kitchen? He's got at least 4 or 5 different threads to troll, how's he gonna find time to actually do something that matters?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:06
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Spangly A posted:I've seen, over the last month in particular, nearly all the corbyn supporters and regular posters in this thread agree that the second leadership election did him in. I *want* him to turn it around but I no longer think he's capable of anything except holding Labour intact until a suitable replacement can be moved in, and frankly it looks like the option to do this for 2025 and not 2020 has expired. Yeah, it's kind of impressive given how many people I know want a replacement but are now subsisting as pro-corbyn on spite for the PLP's bullshit. Now would really be the time to try reconciling instead of doing another round of "Anyone who doesn't want to sleep with Blair is Lenin".
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Mar 20, 2017 17:07
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Dead Goon posted:He's got at least 4 or 5 different threads to troll, how's he gonna find time to actually do something that matters? Pissflaps trolls other threads?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:07
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My POV on Corbyn right now is that a PLP that is so distrusted by its members that it cannot be relied on to push any left wing policies, and relies on <15% support Corbynite figures to maintain the concept of leftishness, is fundamentally incapable of winning elections because no one trusts them to do anything even if they win. Corbyn is basically a symbol of this distrust. The current impasse is damaging and pointless, so Labour needs to rip off the bandaid in one of two ways - either actually move on deselections and so on, or let the PLP have their way and face the consequences of that.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:12
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Spangly A posted:because socialism is important, and corbyn's policies are popular? A candidate who knew the difference between abolishing private schools and setting up new grammar schools realy should be achievable.. The one thing on this thread more consistent than Pissflaps's post are the Corbyn fans in this thread making the claim that he is the only one in the Labour Party in favour of popular policies. Like it was impossible to be in favour of the NHS, higher wages, or rail nationalisation without also supporting unilateral disarmament, the government of.Venezuala, and the whole student politics wish list.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:15
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