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Snak posted:Yeah, he said "I totes believe you, here, let's give you more sedatives..." I figured the doctor finally thought he WAS Danny Rand, but then danny went and started talking about magical cities and ninja magic, so the doctor was all, well maybe this rand kid is loving crazy and needs some actual help.
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Mar 21, 2017 06:50
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Snak posted:That's what I thought at first, but then she says "the entire process is completely legal". It's legal. For now. Until the Feds get into the action and recognize it as a controllable substance. EDIT: Sometimes, I do words as effectively as Finn does martial arts. Samizdata fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 06:50
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Drifter posted:I figured the doctor finally thought he WAS Danny Rand, but then danny went and started talking about magical cities and ninja magic, so the doctor was all, well maybe this rand kid is loving crazy and needs some actual help. Yeah, I think there's even a scene where Papa Meachum chides Ward for picking a doctor who was actually trying to help Danny.
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Mar 21, 2017 06:53
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Just finished E4. Not sure what the negative reviews are/were about. I'm really, really enjoying it so far. Love how much of a clueless goofball Danny is. His lack of awareness of social norms makes everything he says and does really awkward and it's great. Also really like the way they've handled everyone's reactions to his coming back from the dead. I think the show handles the whole incredulity > anger > denial > suspicion > reluctant acceptance flow really well. I can't claim it's realistic since we haven't had any billionaire kids make a return IRL after presumed dead, but the way the show handles the affairs is quite within the realm of credibility. The only thing that feels a bit out of place is Colleen's sudden obsession with cage fighting. It's kinda dumb that she can beat the poo poo out of multiple opponents twice her size, especially with just a simple dislocated finger to show for it. But it's entertaining to watch, so whatever.
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Mar 21, 2017 07:33
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So I finished the series. I gotta say that it got better after the seventh episode, but in the end is not as good as the other Marvel Netflix series. Still enjoyed it a lot. If it had been the second solo series to come out instead of the last, it would be easier to accept many of the failings like less budget, trying to find the right tone, not wanting to show more supernatural stuff... And now I can understand that the theme of the show was control. Control over yourself and over others. Unlike Kilgrave's power, it's the control that comes from being in a position of power, whether real or just perceived by others. Full season spoilers: When Danny comes back to NY, he's perceived to be just a hobo. When he tries to talk to people, they're always trying to keep control over the situation via weapons/guards, even against a guy who looks like he has no power or ill will. Then when the Meachums start realizing that he's the real Danny Rand, they start fearing to lose the control they have over the company, even if that's not what he really wants. He just wants to go back to the people who are like a second family to him, and to be welcomed back. When he receives the 51% of shares and position in the board, he accepts it because that's what his dad did, but he's not really aware of the control he now can exert over Rand Co. and so many other people. It also turns him from "just a hobo spouting crazy poo poo", to "just a millionaire spouting eccentric poo poo", and people actually having to listen to him instead of dismissing him, because now he can exert control over them. So when he uses his economic control to reduce the price of the pills, or buy a fancy dinner for Colleen and become her new landlord, he's not aware that he's being controlling, he's trying to out-nice people because at that point he cares more about how he feels about things, than realizing that other persons feelings and opinions matter too. And that's how his life was until that point: from being a rich kid with very caring parents he then became a disciple in a monastery where the rule was obedience and adherence to training. It would been better if we did see more of Danny's training past to show that maybe it's not just him being a child-like idiot, but that he's grown accustomed to how hierarchy works, even if there are indications of rebellion in his past. We can see that more clearly with Harold, how he keeps saying that he does it all for his children, but in the end it has always been about himself. Not letting Ward make his own decisions, forcing his children to conform to his plans and do stuff they don't like, just because he's their father. A better script would've made the theme clearer, and worked it better than just having Danny complaining about how everyone just wants to use him, or deal more with him having to control his emotions, but turning out that it just makes them worse and that's why his mood can swing so much. I did like how they dealt with the Hand indoctrination showing that not all control is so overt, that it can slowly creep up on you by having people who seem nice asking you just little things at the beginning, and ending with total obedience. Edit: enraged_camel, there are many early plot points that will be explained in the second half of the series. I can understand why critics that only saw the first six episodes complained about some parts not making sense, but it's after that that poo poo starts getting explained, even if in throw-away lines. Kal-L fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 07:34
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Only thing I really enjoyed in this show was the exchange, "He smashed a steel door with his hands!" "Are you sure it was his hand, or could it have been... his fist?" "Uh, sure, I guess" And why does everyone suddenly forget Madame Gao has super powers halfway through the show? So much of what happens in the story requires the characters to just be insanely stupid.
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Mar 21, 2017 07:40
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I'm up to episode 5 and I thought it was funny to flip off the whole room. I made a gyfcat of it. https://gfycat.com/UnsungAchingFawn The overall show so far is like... alright, but Danny Rand is sort of insufferable to me. I wanna know how the whole story pans out but I'm not fond of anyone in Iron Fist.
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Mar 21, 2017 08:40
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:Why didn't Rand wear the headband-mask thing? The historical footage of the previous Iron Fist wore it, so it seems like it should have been in the show from the start. If he had worn his mask, he could protect his billionaire identity, and they could also have martial artist stunt men doing all the fight scenes for him. A seriously, seriously good point. But I guess whoever said that Scott Buck being a poor choice accounts for most of the problems is right...regardless of how good the performer was on screen, the reasons this show is bad far transcend any individual actor. You could jam Donnie Yen into a Finn Jones costume and it still would've turned out bad. Looking into Lewis Tan, it kind of sucks they cast him as a bit player in this. The rumor mill before Iron Fist premiered was that Marvel was also contemplating Shang-Chi as a character, who they might've backdoor introduced in this show the way they did with Frank Castle. Clearly, that didn't happen either. But Lewis Tan seems like a charismatic guy, and his stunt work is awesome as gently caress. Hope he finds cool roles in the future.
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Mar 21, 2017 11:58
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Okay, (episode 9) recently undead-again Faramir coughing up a pile of clotted blood and then choking out, "Oh, that's better," cracked me up. Them not gutting Madame Gao unceremoniously was expected but still disappointing.
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Mar 21, 2017 12:01
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:Why didn't Rand wear the headband-mask thing? The historical footage of the previous Iron Fist wore it, so it seems like it should have been in the show from the start. If he had worn his mask, he could protect his billionaire identity, and they could also have martial artist stunt men doing all the fight scenes for him. 
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Mar 21, 2017 12:27
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I did like that Joy hired Jessica Jones to get dirt on the rest of the board.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:39
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OldTennisCourt posted:So talking villains for going forward. Connected to this, does anyone have any pitches for Iron Fist 2? Here's mine: That ghost monk or whatever: Rise, as the true Iron Fist. The one prophesized as the Immortal Weapon, Champion of the Seven City Tournament! The bowing man raises his head, its the Drunken Master. Monk: Give me your name, warrior! Drunken Master: Shang Chi. Have one of the seven cities controlled by his father, not Fu Manchu. Lord Red Claw or whatever. Do that, and also get rid of everyone else associated with this mediocre show. I'd be there with sparklers.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:51
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My pitches: Danny loses the Iron Fist to Colleen Wing Danny loses the Iron Fist to Ward Meachum Danny loses the Iron Fist to Davos Chi-worth Danny loses the Iron Fist to Claire Temple
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Mar 21, 2017 14:58
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Danny dies on the way back to
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Mar 21, 2017 15:06
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Junkfist posted:There aren't any politics in this show because much like character development or writing, nobody in charge cared to put any in. It's very 1990s in that way. Like the people behind were too cool for this superhero poo poo. edit tetrapyloctomy posted:Okay, (episode 9) recently undead-again Faramir coughing up a pile of clotted blood and then choking out, "Oh, that's better," cracked me up. Them not gutting Madame Gao unceremoniously was expected but still disappointing. Oh, she dies? That's disappointing. Daredevil built her character up so well. I've just been catching up with the show with youtube clips. Didn't know about the above. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 15:09
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Shageletic posted:
No.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:18
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homullus posted:My pitches: Aw, I was gonna do this. I actually think there's a good story in there about Davos taking the Iron Fist back from traitorous thief Danny Rand. So I see a lot of people talking about Faramir -- took me a while to realize it was Harold! I still expect to see a younger guy, I guess. But does anyone still keep referring to Davos as "Manmeet"?  He used to be on this godawful show, which I laboriously watched till it was canceled after the first season just because it felt like the only new comedy in the past ten years that wasn't a bunch of friends or family having hijinks in New York. It actually showed some glimmers in the back half of the season, and Manmeet seemed like he could be a decent character on a better show. I'm glad to see him doing good work on another awful show, at least.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:27
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I actually liked that show as well, especially in its last half. Some really good actors in it.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:29
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I personally don't like this show all that much. I'm slowly grinding through it but I'm surprised at how everyone's characterization changes with each episode. The dialogue is also just . . . so bad sometimes. I can't get over how Episode 6 Feels like the closest this show has gotten to what it should have been, so I guess they should just bring the RZA back. Everything from the game of death style setup to his astral projecting master constantly chiding him from the sidelines was great.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:37
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Max posted:I personally don't like this show all that much. I'm slowly grinding through it but I'm surprised at how everyone's characterization changes with each episode. The dialogue is also just . . . so bad sometimes. And then it goes nowhere. The person who helps him the most with his Iron Fist bullshit is Madame Gao.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:43
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homullus posted:And then it goes nowhere. The person who helps him the most with his Iron Fist bullshit is Madame Gao. That feels like the theme of the show in general. Every interesting plot thread just kinda meanders about and then accidentally gets resolved.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:53
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Xealot posted:But Lewis Tan seems like a charismatic guy, and his stunt work is awesome as gently caress. Hope he finds cool roles in the future. I read an interview with him re: missing out on the role where he framed the possibility of 'so you have an Asian-American guy that ends up discovering and becoming attuned to 'culturally Asian heritage' via the K'un Lun stuff. I would've had no bones about a mixed race Iron Fist, and dude was charismatic as Hell in his minor role. Season 2 of IF should just ignore Danny and just make a Heroes for Hire with the Drunken Master and that Karaoke assassin. Or just have him really be Shang Chi like another poster suggested. I felt like too much of the choreography was overhead shot, close up of Finn Jones throwing blows, overhead shot repeat. Also, speaking of Claire being shoehorned in/IF costume looking too much like Matt's proto-DD suit, before going to fight the Hand, maybe just have Claire drop the suggestion 'Hey, this other vigilante had a costume like this to hide his identity' cut to Danny trying to puzzle out a costume, glances over at the green and yellow bowl he made for Joy as a kid... next thing he's fighting in a yellow bandanna.
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Mar 21, 2017 16:09
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My friend jokingly said that Danny doesn't have to be THE Iron Fist in the Defenders, and they should just do a Poochie died on his way home ending with him and have Drunken master dude become the new Iron Fist.
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Mar 21, 2017 16:12
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I'm pretty sure they have no idea what to do for IF2, and they'd be morons to not make Zhou Cheng front and centre of it. They're on thin enough ice as it is. Doing Cheng/Ch'i-Lin and Silver Serpent with a possible a-plot for Wing seems like an obvious thing to do. Which obviously doesn't mean they'll do it.
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Mar 21, 2017 16:15
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I'm watching a documentary off Netflix titled Monk With A Camera and it's about a rich white man who becomes a Buddhist monk in India, with Tibetan refugees. It's pretty good so far and man, Danny should be way more chill and emotionally developed My experience with meditation is just a mindfulness meditation. All you do is sit and breath and continually redirect your continually wandering attention back to breath, over and over again. You don't even try to hold it on breath. It's like an isolation exercise for your attentional-control faculty. You just sit and breath and peacefully co-exist with the present moment, preventing your mind from doing it's automatic fueling-reaction-to-stimulus-with-attention thing and increasing the degree to which attentional allocation is a volitional act rather than automatic. It relaxes the hell out of my mind every time I do it, and stuff from my subconscious pops up all the time. I'm convinced the subconscious isn't terribly different from the conscious, that it's just a question of prominence. Are these particular ideas and memories and emotions prominent enough, or fully formed enough, to automatically garner attention and therefore be noticed? As your brain relaxes, the threshold between 'will be noticed' and 'will not be noticed' drops. Your default state is [Only notice the loud and fully-formed]. Meditate and that changes. If Danny spent 15 years in a monastery, he would have spent plenty of time dealing with the regular emergence of his unresolved issues.
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Mar 21, 2017 16:42
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Thinking about it the show could have gone zen master with danny. But it could have gone the total opposite way: Set up in the first episode that Dannys time with the Order of the Crane Mother was pretty grim, getting woken up in the morning and beaten with training sticks sort of thing. So he's running back to new york so he can reject his so called role as a living weapon and be a billionaire again and eat a cheeseburger and finally break his vow of chastity. So everyone he talks to thinks he's been abducted by a cult or something and he kinda agrees but then ninjas and destiny comes knocking to kill him etc. Now theres a proper set up for the arc about this conflicted character learning to accept his responsibilities and the actual wisdom of his teachings. In the show at current its not really clear what Dannys goals are and he just seems contrary and hypocritical as poo poo, spouting fortune cookie poo poo platitudes then doing the exact opposite. massive spider fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 16:52
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Accretionist posted:I'm watching a documentary off Netflix titled Monk With A Camera and it's about a rich white man who becomes a Buddhist monk in India, with Tibetan refugees. It's pretty good so far and man, Danny should be way more chill and emotionally developed Yeah, I think it's a major problem with the show that it has, as it's premise "This guy spent 15 years in a monastery as a practicing Buddhist warrior monk" and yet he shows no signs of having been influenced by this or gained anything from it. He doesn't seem to have any ability to focus himself, he doesn't seem to have any enlightened attitudes, or any self-disciplin, or be very good at warrioring. So what did he do for 15 years and how did he become the Iron Fist? Like, in the most recent Iron Fist comics that I read, "Living Weapon", he starts out with a similar issue as in this series: He's lost focus and become lazy. He's sleepwalking through his life as Danny Randy, billionaire CEO. And then he gets in a fight with a badass (I want to say Steel Serpent) and gets his poo poo ruined. Like both his hands and forearms are shattered. And this is his wakeup call. And his shattered arms are all bandaged up, like, in casts, and he just puts his fists up and says "let's do some kung fu" and then he trains until his bones are healed by the power of the iron fist. He literally does kung fu to heal his broken bones. That's the sort of poo poo I expect from a dude who's like "I trained every day, and if I failed, I was beaten". Also, he punches through a helicopter.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:05
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Kheldarn posted:It's not. Goons just expect everything to be 1,000%+ Perfect, including matching everything they have in their head as to how it should be. The idea of people not liking this show (because it is not good) must really bother you.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:14
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massive spider posted:In the show at current its not really clear what Dannys goals are and he just seems contrary and hypocritical as poo poo, spouting fortune cookie poo poo platitudes then doing the exact opposite. Even at the end, I'm still kinda wondering what made Danny leave K'un L'un and turn up in New York looking like a hippie stoner with no shoes. He just doesn't seem to have any drive to do ANYTHING, except a vague "I was made to destroy the Hand." If he wanted to research his parents' murder, he's certainly not focused on it when we first meet him, and if he made a conscious decision to leave K'un L'un, you'd think he'd do the most basic initial research so he didn't show up at a Fortune 500 company looking like a crazy homeless person. I mean, he was like 13 or 14 when his plane crashed, you'd think he'd remember something about how the adults in his Dad's world behaved, and if he was off stealing a car and checking out girls with Davos, it's not like he's been THAT sheltered. Leaving K'un L'un was this huge deal that went against the traditions of the Iron Fist and made his best friend betray him -- a well-developed character isn't going to do that and then just sort of bimble around for six episodes accidentally discovering secret ninjas, he's going to have some determination and goals and set out to do them. And if it really was just "ehhhh, but I miss New York and I really want to go be Danny Rand again", then yeah, he's a spoiled rich kid who deserves all the hate Davos throws at him.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:14
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Half of Danny's lines sound like a college freshman who just discovered Buddhism and weed.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:30
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Season Spoilers One Sentence that would have changed the series Danny as a teenager finds the wreckage of the plane and evidence that a bomb went off in the cargo hold he decides to become the Iron Fist so that he can be allowed to leave Kun Lun and find out what happened. What actually happened : Danny just left for really no reason and didn't figure out his parents were murdered until half way in the season by seeing the effects of the Hands poison. Danny has no real motivation or reason to leave Jun LUN in the series
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 18:30
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Hollismason posted:Season Spoilers One Sentence that would have changed the series Danny as a teenager finds the wreckage of the plane and evidence that a bomb went off in the cargo hold he decides to become the Iron Fist so that he can be allowed to leave Kun Lun and find out what happened. What actually happened : Danny just left for really no reason and didn't figure out his parents were murdered until half way in the season by seeing the effects of the Hands poison. Danny has no real motivation or reason to leave Jun LUN in the series Season Spoilers One Sentence that would have changed the series Danny isn't dumb and whiny.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:34
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Watched the first episode of Iron Fist last night, not enough to really form an opinion but props to everyone involved in putting Ward Meacham on screen because I already hate the gently caress out of that guy. What an rear end in a top hat "I hate Monopoly GRAHHHHH" Also he looks like Tim Allen playing the bad guy in a 90s kids movie.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:37
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homullus posted:Season Spoilers One Sentence that would have changed the series Danny isn't dumb and whiny. Not spoilers Sentence that would have changed the series: Scott Buck is fired, Lewis Tan is the Iron Fist.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:39
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Binged the show over the weekend with my roommate. Enjoyed it, but it lost a lot of steam (and sense) after returning from China. Having someone riff with ameliorated the dumb. The stuff with the Meachum family worked. Danny trying to prove his identity while slowly digging himself deeper (committing trespassing, stalking and harassment) was good. Teaming up with Howard, and overtly bad guy, whose motives align with Danny and was a foil to his son was really cool. Ward's descent and trying to untangle the bullshit he was caught up in was fun. The stuff about Danny having to manage his Big Corporate Exec responsibility and his Iron Fist responsibilities could have been cool but it gets wasted with nonsense about "polluting chi" and "oh I can't get my Offhand ideas that could have improved things, bordering on fanfic: Danny straight up kills a guy. After the combat challenge the hostages are irrelevant anyway. Gao says "forfeit and I'll release her." Danny says "I don't believe you" and now Danny has to weigh his guilt against his conviction that The Hand need a-murderin. Joy schools Danny on the difficulties of armchair epidemiology. "Given a large enough population coincidences happen! The plant really does conform to regulation! We can't indefinitely continue our operating costs without revenue just on your gut feelings!" She starts trying to cut Danny out of the business side of things while Howard secretly tries to keep the status quo. Colleen discovers her sensei is up to dubious poo poo. Danny should feel kinship with a photogenic platitude-spewing martial artist who relieves him of the responsibility of worrying about Gao. Danny then runs into Gao to independently confirm what Colleen says. Gao drops that Colleen and Bakuto are both Hand. It makes Bakuto's attempt to kill her less abrupt too. A scene where, over the phone, Danny asks Hogarth about setting up a safehouse for no reason I'm just curious really on the plane home from China and Hogarth knows all about it because Jessica Jones.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:44
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Here's my thoughts on episode 6. "I'm the Iron Fist" "What does that mean?" "It means I never lose" *Arrested Development style smash-cut to a flashback montage of Danny losing to that guy in the hospital, losing multiple times to some hospital orderlies, etc.* The opening montage was good. Sexy Spider Woman was fantastic. It's about loving time Iron Fist fought an actual supervillain, not just goons. Using his incel status against him was genius. The weaponmaster guy was good too, The fight wasn't bad either, even if it would've been a lot better if it had all been in the piperoom. This is actually a problem for the show. It was one thing when Danny was just fighting generic goons. Now that he's fighting entertaining characters, I'm actively rooting for the protagonist to lose. For someone who was so set on getting control of his dad's company, Danny seems bizarrely OK about destroying his dad's company. Claire bashing that guy's face in was great lol at Danny whining about Gao cheating. You are the worst, Danny. So, this was weird, I didn't hate this episode? Danny is still terrible, but this felt like the first episode where all the stuff surrounding him was good enough to balance it out
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Mar 21, 2017 19:55
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Guy Goodbody posted:Here's my thoughts on episode 6. I've maintained that the RZA actually knew how to throw a cheesy kung fu plot together and make it work, that's definitely my favorite episode for a lot of reasons.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:17
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Max posted:I've maintained that the RZA actually knew how to throw a cheesy kung fu plot together and make it work, that's definitely my favorite episode for a lot of reasons. I mean, he did make The Man with the Iron Fists... Which I've heard isn't really that great, but, I mean, look at it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x76Cbp0Iz_s (edit: this might be a red band trailer, I saw someone's eyeball get punched out of their head, so maybe NSFW) He should have been the loving showrunner. Snak fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 20:26
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LadyPictureShow posted:I read an interview with him re: missing out on the role where he framed the possibility of 'so you have an Asian-American guy that ends up discovering and becoming attuned to 'culturally Asian heritage' via the K'un Lun stuff. I would've had no bones about a mixed race Iron Fist, and dude was charismatic as Hell in his minor role. I read the same interview. His point was well-stated, but also he committed to the role they did give him, so good on him being a professional. They could also just re-use the actor not as that same individual. Comic book their way out of it. Si-Fan cloned their leader a bunch of times, and they were mostly scarred, drunk fuckups, but one of them wasn't just because. Or they say nothing and there he is. They probably shouldn't literally use Fu Manchu, though...like, maybe call him something else. I'll never understand why people were so upset about the Ancient One, because that's also probably not the Asian representation you want. Pai Mei from Kill Bill with no irony.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:35
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Snak posted:I mean, he did make The Man with the Iron Fists... From a old school kung fu movie/Iron Fist comics kung fu perspective, it is a lot of fun. I recommend just watching the first one, if you like comic booky super kung fu villain action.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:46
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