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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:I read a bunch of the dramas when I couldn't sleep earlier this month and they are 99% terrible. The other 1% is the Tamers epilogue even though a buncha nerds are trying to interpret it as referencing the Wonderswan games. Yeah, I'm famillar with the franchise but for some reason never got around to watching it for myself until just recently. I'm probably going to stick with the 7 current main shows, the first two movies, Tri, and the Locomon movie if only because as I understand it Tamers ends on a pretty bleak note and I figure those kids deserve a happy ending. While the other movies are of somewhat questionable canon (or don't fit at all) are any of them at least worth seeing? Larryb fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 15:45
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Larryb posted:Yeah, I'm famillar with the franchise but for some reason never got around to watching it for myself until just recently. I'm probably going to stick with the 7 current main shows, the first two movies, Tri, and the Locomon movie if only because as I understand it Tamers ends on a pretty bleak note and I figure those kids deserve a happy ending. "Burst Mode Invoke!" is pretty much spectacle with a thin plot, but it's good spectacle and focuses primarily on the Digimon. Also it has Masaru knocking a bastard the size of a skyscraper on his rear end. Aside from that, "Diablomon Strikes Back" is a solid movie, if not a bit superfluous, and "Adventurers' Battle" is a solid story. I'd also recommend "Digital Monster: X-Evolution" for being a self contained story. It has some very nice CGI for its time and has an entirely digimon cast, making it unique in the franchise.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:50
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I really cannot get into Diablomon Strikes Back just because it carries the single worst sin of Adventure 02, which I will spoil for Larry Davis gets EVERYTHING. Oh no Omnimon can't keep up for some loving reason, better give Davis a power up! Again! Just, loving Christ. Our War Games perfectly summarizes how Adventure tends to work- Tai cannot do poo poo on his own, he NEEDS others to help him, and almost always needs Matt right beside him. He is never a solo Leader Hero. Meanwhile Davis just gets a power up at the expense of others again. Ken barely counts for that whole loving mess.
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Mar 21, 2017 16:20
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I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a double standard. Paladin Mode is no functionally different from Omegamon, it just has more Digimon combining their power than the two that went into Omegamon. Adventure and 02 in general had a significant problem with spreading evolved forms and powered ups across characters who weren't The Leader and the Beta Lead. The only difference between Adventure and 02 in that regard is that the Leader and the Beta Lead shared a higher form instead of having two separate ones. EDIT - And you know, thinking on it, Adventurers' Battle does a much better job of giving everyone something to do, what with Hikari and Takeru helping defeat Diablomon the first time, Jou helping Daisuke and Ken get to the battle, Iori and Miyako helping round up Kuramon, and so on and so forth. By comparison Our War Game reduces everyone not named Taichi, Yamato, Koushirou, and Takeru to side roles, Sora does nothing but spend the entire movie in a huff unaware of the entire story, and Jou and Mimi are comic relief doing other things. And even then, Tentomon and Patamon never get to do anything besides get their asses kicked. But no, let's just reduce it to whose name is on the power up in terms of who gets to be relevant. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 16:26
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TFRazorsaw posted:I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a double standard. Paladin Mode is no functionally different from Omegamon, it just has more Digimon combining their power than the two that went into Omegamon. Functionally no different? How about the fact that it's just a power up for one Digimon, who is far more Davis' Digimon than it is Ken. This has always been the driving thing with Davis, he is primarily the one in charge of and responsible for Imperialdramon and all that implies. Davis has taken the lead over the entirety of 02, and Ken is a clear after thought. Adventure 01 actually did a pretty drat good job of spreading the love for one important reason- EVERYONE staid relevant through out. After Davis and to a lesser extent Ken got Imperialdramon, none of the other Digimon mattered. Almost literally in fact, where several of them gave up their higher evolutions to allow Imerpialdramon to GO to Fighter Mode to begin with. Davis (and Ken) staid ahead of the curve on every evolution in terms of raw power and importance. Tai and Matt? Were Garurumon might have been the weakest ultimate and Metal Greymon was no better than average at best. The stand outs of the normal ultimates were Angewomon, Zudomon and Garudamon, who held their own and made a difference against actual Mega Level enemies, something Metal Greymon and Were Garurumon absolutely could not do. You never get a moment with the 02 Digimon like that, though to be fair that applies to Paildramon too- they were all oddly weak like that. The best was the buddha idol of Cody and all he managed was getting hit a bit more. Hell even though they got the evolution advantage, which was justified in the series, they didn't even have the strongest Digimon that season. That was Magna Angemon, who even 02 shows is stronger than Imperialdramon Fighter Mode and War Greymon. And even THERE, the team is kept balanced by the fact that War Greymon and Metal Garurumon aren't that much higher up than everyone else, especially the likes of Zudomon and Garudamon, and they were all essential to defeating Apocalymon because if they weren't all there they'd have been screwed. It's a matter of context. Omnimon is created when all hope is lost, as a fusion of two great Digimon into an even better one. The first time something like that really happened, big event, unique in the history of Digimon. Tai and Matt didn't even achieve it on their own, needing the power of all those that believed in them to do it. Imperialdramon just gets another mode to beat the bad guy. It's not unique, it's something that's already happened, in the same exact circumstance that gave us Fighter Mode, only this time shafting Omnimon, instead of most of the Adventure cast. Its a retread again. Also, there's a drat good reason why only four of them were involved against Diablomon in the first movie and the rest were loving off somewhere else, and why Tentomon and ESPECIALLY Patamon got the shaft- They would have absolutely wrecked Diablomon's poo poo inside out and there'd be no movie. Magna Angemon alone would have solved that final battle pretty handily because forcibly Gate of Destiny'ing a whole bunch of fodder duders is the one thing we know he can do. The Adventure cast was pretty broken powerful by the end of 01, so writing out most of them is pretty smart given the threat they were fighting. In this movie, the 02 cast get to be support class for Davis (and Ken) again. That's all their role amounts to. They didn't really need to be there and being there didn't affect anything. But I have a feeling you won't agree so whatever.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:10
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https://twitter.com/Digisoulweb/status/844140899537993729 EDIT: https://twitter.com/Digisoulweb/status/844140875911483392 I liked N0 dub 
Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 17:12
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Imperialdramon Paladin Mode is a form brought about by four digimon sharing their powers. Omegamon is a form brought about by two Digimon sharing their powers. It's the same drat thing, it just doesn't result in a fusion with a new name. Honestly. The series had moved on from the Adventure characters. I'm not exactly plussed that they gave up their fighting strength to give Imperialdramon because their time had passed and 02's focus was on the new kids and Hikari and Takeru, not on the original eight. Whether they got to fight or not was always going to be something that happened in a limited capacity. I'm not really going to indulge the rampant HolyAngemon fanboyism, but writing the other Chosen out of Our War Game was a decision they made. It's still one of the best movies the franchise ever made, but it doesn't use the entire cast well, and they constructed the story to leave a majority of them out. If they were worried about it being too much for the villain, the obvious solution would be to make Diablomon's various forms stronger or rely better on the duplication power he had.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:28
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By focus on the new kids I assume you mean Davis and????
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Mar 21, 2017 18:37
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I mean, Iori has more relevancy to the plot by the end of 02 than Daisuke does, so. I don't understand that claim. But I guess it makes sense if all you count is evolved forms.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:41
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The last thing I'm really going to say on the matter, RE the difference between the two The fact that it's just more Imperialdramon is exactly the problem. It's just another power up for him. War Greymon and Metal Garurumon never really got power ups for themselves. 02 was really bad about giving anyone that wasn't Davis, and through Davis Ken by a much smaller margin after things went down with him, any kind of focus. And I didn't play up any fanboyism with Magna Angemon, we've had this discussion. 02 even holds that he's freakishly powerful, given his type advantage shouldn't matter at all against Black War Greymon, yet he was still winning their fight. EDIT: Also, Cody has more relevance in that he has a family member related to the plot but he does absolutely nothing. You can cut his ties to the main villain super easy and not change a single thing. He accomplishes nothing. He SHOULD have, but you know how that goes.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:23
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It changes nothing, except the way it develops Oikawa's backstory and gives you something to empathize with him on, as well as perspective on Iori's relationship with his father and showing how his sense of empathy for people who are his enemies towards them had changed since the start of the show. But you know, aside from that, nothing would change, sure. But regardless, calling Paladin Mode "Paladinmon" or something would effectively change nothing beyond the name and its design. In the end, it's effectively the same thing, a fusion of Imperialdramon and Omegamon's powers. The story would be the exact same thing. I don't see why the Adventure characters need to be treated as on equal footing, either, given the show isn't about them. It's about their successors. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 19:40
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I've decided to just watch all the movies aside from the Savers one and the 3D films, I've also figured out roughly where to place each film (aside from the ones that explicitly take place before and after a respective series I've narrowed down this timeline, correct me if I'm wrong: The first Adventure 02 movie is between episodes 21 and 22, the first Tamers movie is between 23 and 24 and the Frontier movie is between 37 and 38). This is also my first time experiencing the Japanese voice cast, everyone's pretty on point so far except for Yamato/Matt who sounds like he's about 30.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:10
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That's a common thing with characters in his archetype. The secondary male characters who're troubled a lot of the time and gets built up as the serious minded foil to the hot blooded main protag often end up sounding two decades older than they are.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:13
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TFRazorsaw posted:That's a common thing with characters in his archetype. The secondary male characters who're troubled a lot of the time and gets built up as the serious minded foil to the hot blooded main protag often end up sounding two decades older than they are. I realize that, but I've seen shows where said character types at least try to sound vaugely like a teenager whereas here it's literally just a man's voice coming out of a boy's body (and hillariously he sounds exactly the same later in Digimon Tri). It's not terrible mind you and I'll probably get used to it but it just sounded a little weird at first.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:55
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Larryb posted:I realize that, but I've seen shows where said character types at least try to sound vaugely like a teenager whereas here it's literally just a man's voice coming out of a boy's body (and hillariously he sounds exactly the same later in Digimon Tri). It's not terrible mind you and I'll probably get used to it but it just sounded a little weird at first. How can he sound exactly the same with two different VAs? Also if you think Yamato sounds old, just wait until you hear Kouji. I remember kid!me (who, admittedly, was not accustomed to the Japanese version) was more than slightly shocked at how old he sounds.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:21
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Blaze Dragon posted:How can he sound exactly the same with two different VAs? Similar enough that I didn't notice he was voiced by a different guy at least, but fair point.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:24
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Matt went through super puberty Also you can just use whatever names you want for them. It's not a big thing- we're all nerd enough to know who you're referring to when. Most of us just go by what we're most familiar with.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:35
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Burkion posted:Matt went through super puberty Yeah, while I'm pretty much sticking exclusively to subs for this I'll probably keep referring to the characters by their dub names as that's what I'm most familiar with (in fact the only shows I'm going into completely blind for this are Tri and Savers onward). As an aside it's kind of a pity that terms like "Digivolve" and "Digi Destined" were inventions of the dub as I kind of think they sound better than "evolve" and "Chosen Child".
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Mar 21, 2017 23:05
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They do just because they're unique if nothing else. Japan doesn't care AS much about using super similar or even the same terminology, but in the states Digimon trying to use EVOLVE would have been a bad, bad idea.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:10
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Burkion posted:They do just because they're unique if nothing else. Are you talking in regards to religious opposition or that it would be stepping on Pokemon's coattails (if it's the former then how did the dub of the Pokemon anime get away with using the term and if it's the latter doesn't Digimon, or at the very least, the Tamgotchi-esque LED game the franchise originally spawned from, technically predate that series by at least a year)?
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Mar 21, 2017 23:47
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Larryb posted:Are you talking in regards to religious opposition or that it would be stepping on Pokemon's coattails (if it's the former then how did the dub of the Pokemon anime get away with using the term and if it's the latter doesn't Digimon, or at the very least, the Tamgotchi-esque LED game the franchise originally spawned from, technically predate that series by at least a year)? Which is also technically predated by the Pokémon games by a year 
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Mar 22, 2017 00:00
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Waterfall of Salt posted:Which is also technically predated by the Pokémon games by a year Huh, for some reason I'd always thought that Digimon came first for some reason. Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 00:23
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Larryb posted:As an aside it's kind of a pity that terms like "Digivolve" and "Digi Destined" were inventions of the dub as I kind of think they sound better than "evolve" and "Chosen Child". I'll give you Digivolve (to an extent), but Digidestined is a really lovely term. Chosen Child is pretty good, they play off it well in Frontier (where, as Ophanimon points out, the children themselves chose to go to the Digital World) and Tri (where the seceond half of that becomes a problem for Joe specifically and, as a coming-of-age story, is somewhat of a point for all of them). DigiDestined just implies that everything is destiny which is something I hate.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:51
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Waterfall of Salt posted:Which is also technically predated by the Pokémon games by a year Not in the US! The original keychain pets were out before Pokémon
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Mar 22, 2017 02:15
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Pretty extensive interview about the 20th anniversary digivice http://withthewill.net/threads/17390-20th-Anniversary-Digimon-V-Pet-Interview-Other-Anniversary-Plans-Touched-On
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Mar 22, 2017 03:23
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Wow, the first episode of Digimon Universe was meta as gently caress. Also, out of curiousity was there a reason why Xros Wars ended up lasting longer than any season that preceded it? Also I noticed that Savers is the only series where the protagonist doesn't have a pair of goggles on his head (out of curiousity, do any of those characters actually use said goggles at some point or are they mostly there for decoration?) Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 19:58
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Toei wanted to hold onto the time slot.
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Mar 22, 2017 20:02
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Larryb posted:Wow, the first episode of Digimon Universe was meta as gently caress. Also, out of curiousity was there a reason why Xros Wars ended up lasting longer than any season that preceded it? Tai, Davis, and Takuya use theirs a couple of times each, Takato uses his a lot though since the "Digital Fog" from Tamers required eye protection when entering(Rika and Henry used sunglasses instead)
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Mar 22, 2017 20:51
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drrockso20 posted:Tai, Davis, and Takuya use theirs a couple of times each, Takato uses his a lot though since the "Digital Fog" from Tamers required eye protection when entering(Rika and Henry used sunglasses instead) What's the deal with the goggles anyway? Is it just because they happened to be part of Tai's design in the first series and they then decided to make everyone (except Masaru for some reason) have them from then on?
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Mar 22, 2017 21:01
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Larryb posted:What's the deal with the goggles anyway? Is it just because they happened to be part of Tai's design in the first series and they then decided to make everyone (except Masaru for some reason) have them from then on? Davis gets them from Tai as a passing the torch moment, Takato is a fan of digimon so the goggles make sense as a fanboy thing, don't know about seasons past that i mean the answer is yes it's as a homage to tai but they decently have reasons to wear them
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Mar 22, 2017 21:05
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mandatory lesbian posted:Davis gets them from Tai as a passing the torch moment, Takato is a fan of digimon so the goggles make sense as a fanboy thing, don't know about seasons past that Yeah I'd forgotten about that so fair enough, though I think the main kids in Frontier, Xros Wars, and Universe just kind of have them with no other explanation given.
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Mar 22, 2017 21:12
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It was a part of "the hero's" design early enough from the get go that it carried over when Taichi was used for the V-Tamer manga, but not at the time of "C'mon Digimon" or "Digimon World", as their protagonists lack them despite being "prototypical" Digimon works. Once the franchise took off with other media besides games and toys they likely decided to keep it a consistent thing. In Masaru's case, I imagine they opted to skip the goggles because they don't fit his character at all.
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Mar 22, 2017 22:09
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TFRazorsaw posted:It was a part of "the hero's" design early enough from the get go that it carried over when Taichi was used for the V-Tamer manga, but not at the time of "C'mon Digimon" or "Digimon World", as their protagonists lack them despite being "prototypical" Digimon works. Once the franchise took off with other media besides games and toys they likely decided to keep it a consistent thing. Worth noting that V-Tamer Tai actually used his googles to protect his eyes when flying with Zero. Oh and that his googles were actually a gift from his gradfather who was a former combat pilot.
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Mar 22, 2017 22:31
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I have nothing to add to goggles conversation, but since V-Tamer was mentioned... Go read V-Tamer. Right now. All of you. Even the ones that read it already. Especially those that haven't.
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Mar 23, 2017 01:51
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Burkion posted:Weregarurumon is the weakest ultimate. I thought it would be a general consensus that Lillymon was the weakest. Weregarurumon is probably a solid 2nd, but Lillymon didn't do poo poo. She wrapped a necklace around a champion level t-rex and distracted an enemy so Zudomon could finish it off.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:59
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Scratchman Apoo posted:I thought it would be a general consensus that Lillymon was the weakest. Weregarurumon is probably a solid 2nd, but Lillymon didn't do poo poo. She wrapped a necklace around a champion level t-rex and distracted an enemy so Zudomon could finish it off. She's got a lot of weird powers to her name that could be useful, and her primary attack is stronger than anything Were Garurumon showed off. She's just ridiculously more fragile. Glass Cannon basically.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:06
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Nevertheless, that the most impressive thing she's allowed to beat on her own is a Garbamon. Mimi's great. I love her character. But she and Lilymon were extremely short changed as far as fights went.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:09
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Oh no argument there. Though that's a reflection of Mimi as a character. She REALLY did not want to fight for most of the Dark Masters saga so poor Lillymon had to sit out some of the biggest brawls. And when she did want to fight, she was off building an army, again screwing over Lillymon. Mimi is Lillymon's own worst enemy.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:11
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Burkion posted:Oh no argument there. I think they could have struck a much better balance, though. I mean, Garbamon is basically just Sukamon at the Perfect level. It's kind of a disservice from a writing standpoint.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:21
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It is unfortunate as I already said. I'm just glad she was able to take down one of Apocalymon's claws without help- while also using Mimi in the most amusing way.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:24
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