UKMT March 2017 - Blame it on the Bourgie - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT March 2017 - Blame it on the Bourgie

Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed.
Jeremy Corbyn	95	18.63%
Dennis Skinner	53	10.39%
Angus Robertson	20	3.92%
Tim Farron	9	1.76%
Paul Ukips	7	1.37%
Robot Lenin	105	20.59%
Tony Blair	28	5.49%
Pissflaps	193	37.84%
Total:	510 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Pochoclo posted:

Isn't this mostly because unions have been on decline thanks to the efforts of neoliberalism?

the Labour membership figures don't include members of affiliate unions.

11/3/1931: Rupert Murdoch crawls out of the depths of Hell.

GEORGE W BUSHI fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Mar 22, 2017

# ? Mar 22, 2017 09:09

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# ? May 15, 2024 06:14

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

if we assume the lowest possible boundary of membership being 500,001, and the full 40,000 members have quit because they dont want jeremy corbyn, that still leaves them either with 3x the tory highmark or hovering around or above the total of all other party registration in the UK.

Party membership doesn't mean much in a lot of places (see; the US), or it can mean everything (soviet-collectivism celebrating its glorious centenary where nothing bad happened and lenin lived forever).

Losing less than 10% of membership from something as idiotic as the whip seems... good? There are obviously going to be hard limits relating to variable numbers and tactics employed as to what you can actually do with this, setting momentum on Keep Britain Clean or turning membership into a novel way to decorate your car to ensure everyone knows how good your opinions on the baby jesus are clearly aren't going to be helpful. But what momentum needs to start doing ASAP, and are doing, and are pushing for expanding, is local governance work. The government don't want to loving do anything helpful, then it is *good* that we have a group of people trying to do things and wearing a badge. This is how you undermine a democracy; in Greece, in Portugal, and further back into the last century, passively replacing state function with voluntarism is very hard to push back, politically. You're going to reach a point where force is needed to make people stop helping each other, in broad public global view. It's better; Labour don't even loving need to care. If Labour realise they can start occasionally shouting angry socialist class things from yet-another-politibot about the oppositon, while letting momentum expand their groundgame, and a final agreement is made between the PLP, momentum and the union bloc on what specific aspects they want as "their" perview and who else comes in to ratify, we could even realistically get things on track. The thirdwayists (some posters getting hella mad about calling them "blairites" because blair's not there, I guess Pitt didn't send the memo out or something) get to claim they've "won" and "been reasonable adults together". Jeremy can go back to making jam and photographing hubcaps. The unions get policy veto on the PLP, and momentum would happily distance themselves as much as possibly provided their eligible still get taken as full member votes)

I mean really my long term view of Labour's membership is that sovietism has the better odds than social democracy right now

# ? Mar 22, 2017 09:10

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

Spangly A posted:

if we assume the lowest possible boundary of membership being 500,001, and the full 40,000 members have quit because they dont want jeremy corbyn, that still leaves them either with 3x the tory highmark or hovering around or above the total of all other party registration in the UK.

Party membership doesn't mean much in a lot of places (see; the US), or it can mean everything (soviet-collectivism celebrating its glorious centenary where nothing bad happened and lenin lived forever).

Losing less than 10% of membership from something as idiotic as the whip seems... good? There are obviously going to be hard limits relating to variable numbers and tactics employed as to what you can actually do with this, setting momentum on Keep Britain Clean or turning membership into a novel way to decorate your car to ensure everyone knows how good your opinions on the baby jesus are clearly aren't going to be helpful. But what momentum needs to start doing ASAP, and are doing, and are pushing for expanding, is local governance work. The government don't want to loving do anything helpful, then it is *good* that we have a group of people trying to do things and wearing a badge. This is how you undermine a democracy; in Greece, in Portugal, and further back into the last century, passively replacing state function with voluntarism is very hard to push back, politically. You're going to reach a point where force is needed to make people stop helping each other, in broad public global view. It's better; Labour don't even loving need to care. If Labour realise they can start occasionally shouting angry socialist class things from yet-another-politibot about the oppositon, while letting momentum expand their groundgame, and a final agreement is made between the PLP, momentum and the union bloc on what specific aspects they want as "their" perview and who else comes in to ratify, we could even realistically get things on track. The thirdwayists (some posters getting hella mad about calling them "blairites" because blair's not there, I guess Pitt didn't send the memo out or something) get to claim they've "won" and "been reasonable adults together". Jeremy can go back to making jam and photographing hubcaps. The unions get policy veto on the PLP, and momentum would happily distance themselves as much as possibly provided their eligible still get taken as full member votes)

I mean really my long term view of Labour's membership is that sovietism has the better odds than social democracy right now

Could you link to some of the local governance work Momentum are doing?

# ? Mar 22, 2017 09:29

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

goddamnedtwisto posted:

At least our racist security theatre is aimed at countries where actual terrorist attackers have come from, so one up on the Yanks, but it's still pointless because apart from the one guy with exploding underpants I'm certain every attack on (or with) a plane aimed at the West from 9/11 onwards has been on a flight that originated within the West.

a bit rude to ignore the 2015 Metrojet bombing just cause the victims were mostly Russian instead of Western

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:02

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

ThomasPaine posted:

the Oscar-winning Zootopia (Zootropolis in the UK)

Was there a reason for this? Is Zootopia an existing bestiality movie with copyright?

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:04

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

Guavanaut posted:

Was there a reason for this? Is Zootopia an existing bestiality movie with copyright?

�In the UK we decided to change the US title to Zootropolis to merely allow the film to have a unique title that works for UK audiences,� - An actual quote by an actual Disney rep apparently.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:12

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Oberleutnant posted:

Cheerful article on NHS privatisation from the Private Eye website:

Thank god for Big Tone, eh?

I wonder what Alan Milburn's up to these days�

quote:

In 2013 Milburn joined PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) as Chair of PwC's UK Health Industry Oversight Board, whose objective is to drive change in the health sector, and assist PwC in growing its presence in the health market. Milburn continued to be Chairman of the European Advisory Board at Bridgepoint Capital, whose activities include financing private health care companies providing services ito the NHS, and continued as a member of the Healthcare Advisory Panel at Lloyds Pharmacy.

Early in 2015 Milburn intervened in the British election campaign to criticise Labour's health plans, which would limit private sector involvement in the NHS. Milburn was criticised for doing so while having a personal financial interest in the private health sector.

Oh.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:12

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Kokoro Wish posted:

�In the UK we decided to change the US title to Zootropolis to merely allow the film to have a unique title that works for UK audiences,� - An actual quote by an actual Disney rep apparently.

Ah, so they paid someone a lot of money to find the "most profitable" possible name in each market and they p-hacked their way to a result so they keep coming back to buy more analysis in the future.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:16

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Kokoro Wish posted:

�In the UK we decided to change the US title to Zootropolis to merely allow the film to have a unique title that works for UK audiences,� - An actual quote by an actual Disney rep apparently.

they correctly understand the population of the UK needing to feel special

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:19

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Jose posted:

they correctly understand the population of the UK needing to feel special

More significantly, they were prepared to accommodate that.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:20

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Kokoro Wish posted:

�In the UK we decided to change the US title to Zootropolis to merely allow the film to have a unique title that works for UK audiences,� - An actual quote by an actual Disney rep apparently.

That's not a sentence that appeals to human logic.

The new title doesn't even work as well. Zoo-topia is clearly to have assonance with U-topia, Zootropolis doesn't properly sound like metropolis, acropolis, or megalopolis. The only thing it brings to mind is "necropolis, but for zoophiles instead of necrophiles" :stonk:

Is that what they were going for, or are they just subtly gaslighting audiences so that they don't know whether they're talking about the same movie, like Harry Potter and the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's/Carpenter's Stone?

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:22

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I think most people would understand 'zootropolis' to mean 'zoo city'.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:25

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

I think most people would understand 'zootopia' rhymes with 'utopia'.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:27

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Well, yes.

I'm not suggesting the name change was necessary from a comprehension point of view.

It's almost certainly down to some sort of trademark concern.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:27

Red Oktober: May 24, 2006; wiggly eyes!

Simple answer, this place: http://www.givskudzoo.dk/Home.4588.aspx

A zoo in Denmark (not yet open I think) has the trademark for 'Zootopia' in the U.K. (I presume that's what they're going to call it for the U.K. market)
You can even check the IPO website for proof.

What an.... odd thing for people to make up a story about.

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/4/EU008214249

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:31

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Pissflaps posted:

It's almost certainly down to some sort of trademark concern.

It's a u2 trademark.

Red Oktober posted:

Simple answer, this place: http://www.givskudzoo.dk/Home.4588.aspx

A zoo in Denmark (not yet open I think) has the trademark for 'Zootopia' in the U.K. (I presume that's what they're going to call it for the U.K. market)
You can even check the IPO website for proof.

What an.... odd thing for people to make up a story about.

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/4/EU008214249

I saw this first google and I'm amazed an imaginary zoo that doesn't and won't exist somehow got through u2's legal team for this

I haven't *seen* the u2 zootopia IP so maybe they don't have it. I'm not used to music marketing firms not aggressively play hunt the infringement

Spangly A fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Mar 22, 2017

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:37

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

I suspected Denmark might be involved, and it doesn't surprise me at all that Bono is too. I was thinking some kind of, uh, movie though.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 10:46

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Looks like that NICs farce has had an effect on Tory support with them dropping a whole 3 points in this poll

https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/844490487163748352

# ? Mar 22, 2017 11:08

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Pissflaps posted:

Looks like that NICs farce has had an effect on Tory support with them dropping a whole 3 points in this poll

https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/844490487163748352

for context, YouGov polls are the ones that had Labour neck and neck with/sometimes ahead of the Tories earlier in Corbyn's tenure.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 11:28

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Baron Corbyn posted:

for context, YouGov polls are the ones that had Labour neck and neck with/sometimes ahead of the Tories earlier in Corbyn's tenure.

For context, you are replying to Pissflaps.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 11:43

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Jedit posted:

For context, you are replying to Pissflaps.

He's actually providing additional information: explaining that this polling company has in the past been one of the more positive ones for Corbyn's labour.

But why let comprehension skills get in the way of a good cheerleading opportunity.

Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Mar 22, 2017

# ? Mar 22, 2017 11:47

Party Boat: Nov 1, 2007; where did that other dog come from

who is he

Does anyone fancy a job as a liaison between Corbyn and the PLP?

quote:

An exciting opportunity has arisen for a Political Liaison Officer to join the Leader of the Opposition’s team. The Political Liaison will help support and develop the relationship between the Leader of the Labour Party and labour stakeholders, including councillors, Labour Group Leaders, MPs and CLPs.

The successful candidate will have a working knowledge of the aims of The Labour Party and its structures, experience of working in a campaigning or community setting as well as experience of preparing written and verbal briefings.

Please note this is a fixed-term contract for the period only that Jeremy Corbyn is the Leader of the Labour Party and Leader of the Opposition.

http://www.w4mpjobs.org/JobDetails.aspx?jobid=60013

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:01

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

quote:

EU chiefs have warned airlines including easyJet, Ryanair and British Airways that they will need to relocate their headquarters and sell off shares to European nationals if they want to continue flying routes within continental Europe after Brexit.

Executives at major carriers have been reminded during recent private meetings with officials that to continue to operate on routes across the continent � for instance, from Milan to Paris � they must have a significant base on EU territory and that a majority of their capital shares must be EU-owned.

The development, coming days before the triggering of article 50, potentially makes it more likely that the carriers will act to restructure, with economic consequences for the UK, including a loss of jobs.

The tough line from the EU may encourage the UK to reciprocate with its own nationality rules, which would leave EU-owned airlines facing equally difficult choices, potentially dampening their investment in the UK in the short term, although some may seek in time to establish their own British subsidiaries.

The ability of companies such as easyJet to operate on routes across the EU has been a major part of their business models, and there may be a renewed willingness among airlines to invest outside the UK to maintain market share.

Some airlines have already started to seek alternative headquarters, and to examine how they might ensure that their shareholding is majority-EU owned, possibly through the forced disinvesting of British shareholders.

But others have appeared, until now, to hold out hope that the European commission would be flexible on the rules in the current aviation agreement.

EU officials in the meetings were clear, however, about the rigidity of the rules, amid concerns at a senior EU level that too many in the aviation industry are in denial about the consequences of the UK�s decision to leave the bloc.

Representatives from easyJet, along with the British Airways owner IAG, Ryanair and the Tui Group, whose portfolio of airlines includes Thomson, met the EU�s Brexit taskforce last week. That followed a meeting the previous week between the taskforce and executives from Air France-KLM, Finnair, Lufthansa and SAS, as part of the EU�s efforts to engage with stakeholders.

Thomas van der Wijngaart, an aviation expert at the legal firm Clyde & Co, told the Guardian there could be significant economic consequences for the UK with airlines changing their financial and operating structures, and building a stronger presence on the continent.

�It might be that carriers choose to have domestic flights [on the continent] operated by their new European operating licence, which would probably mean a reduction in staff in the UK,� he warned.

Britain is a member of an aviation agreement based on 35 shared pieces of EU legislation, a common regulator in the European Aviation Safety Agency, and a court acting as a referee on the shared rules, the European court of justice (ECJ).

However, asked during a select committee hearing last week whether the UK would continue to be part of the �open-skies� agreement after Brexit, the secretary of state for exiting the EU, David Davis, said: �Not that agreement ... One would presume that would not apply to us � doesn�t say anything about whether there would be a successor.�

The industry holds out hope that the UK and the EU will be able to seal an early deal during article 50 negotiations that ensures that damage to the industry is limited.

However a hurdle on progress on a new agreement is Theresa May�s intention to remove the UK from the ECJ�s jurisdiction, which currently has the key role in adjudicating over conflicts between parties to the agreement.

A number of member states may also have interests in standing in the way of Britain�s attempts to strike a new deal. Spanish diplomats, for example, say they will not sign any international aviation agreement that recognises the airport on Gibraltar.

The UK could react to the imposition of EU ownership rules on airlines by developing ownership rules of its own, which could prevent carriers such as the Ireland-based Ryanair from flying UK domestic routes, as it does today.

EasyJet is establishing an EU operating company � on which an announcement is expected within weeks � so that it can obtain an EU air operating certificate. The company insists, however, it will continue to be headquartered in the UK.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:13

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Curse these cast in iron rules on airline specifics that would not be extremely easy to change and won't presumably see big changes when TTIP/CETA is forced through anyway.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:17

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Imagine you're a policeman wanting to do some dodgy, under-the-table hacking of those drat dirty Greenpeace types who, as well all know, are the single biggest threat this country faces. You could do it yourself, or you could do what everyone else is doing and outsource that poo poo to India:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/21/ipcc-investigates-claims-police-used-hackers-to-read-protesters-emails-jenny-jones

quote:

The police watchdog is investigating allegations that a secretive Scotland Yard unit used hackers to illegally access the private emails of hundreds of political campaigners and journalists.

The allegations were made by an anonymous individual who says the unit worked with Indian police, who in turn used hackers to illegally obtain the passwords of the email accounts of the campaigners, and some reporters and press photographers.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:25

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Zephro posted:

Imagine you're a policeman wanting to do some dodgy, under-the-table hacking of those drat dirty Greenpeace types who, as well all know, are the single biggest threat this country faces. You could do it yourself, or you could do what everyone else is doing and outsource that poo poo to India:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/21/ipcc-investigates-claims-police-used-hackers-to-read-protesters-emails-jenny-jones

That's the future of post brexit, open-to-the-world free market policing.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:27

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

jBrereton posted:

Curse these cast in iron rules on airline specifics that would not be extremely easy to change and won't presumably see big changes when TTIP/CETA is forced through anyway.

Those are about transatlantic and Canadian trade, not intra European plane routes.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:34

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/844512043646496768

https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/844512196046524416

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:38

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

JFairfax posted:

Those are about transatlantic and Canadian trade, not intra European plane routes.

For Sure, but I would assume that one or both of them might have clauses which grant EU airlines entry to [North American Place] markets for reciprocal access.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:39

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

I would be very surprised If either the us or eu wanted to open up their internal flight markets

Also lol at the very idea of the EU allowing Canadian airlines access to Europe in return for getting access to the comparatively tiny market of Canada hahah loving hell just lol

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:43

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Pissflaps posted:

https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/844512043646496768

https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/844512196046524416

So that Sky News or whatever wordcloud was completely accurate then

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:43

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

JFairfax posted:

I would be very surprised If either the us or eu wanted to open up their internal flight markets

Also lol at the very idea of the EU allowing Canadian airlines access to Europe in return for getting access to the comparatively tiny market of Canada hahah loving hell just lol

Well since the whole thing is being done under a massive cloud of secrecy I suppose we'll just have to see what TTIP brings to the continent.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:44

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

baka kaba posted:

So that Sky News or whatever wordcloud was completely accurate then

Which one?

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:45

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Cerv posted:

a bit rude to ignore the 2015 Metrojet bombing just cause the victims were mostly Russian instead of Western

Well we're talking about ridiculous security theatre in Western nations, so may as well keep it on those terms. See also the restrictions on liquids, put in place 20 years after the Bojinka plot first attempted to use liquid explosives on a plane. Nobody gave a poo poo about it until they planned trying it on a flight from the UK.

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:46

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Spangly A posted:

It's a u2 trademark.

I saw this first google and I'm amazed an imaginary zoo that doesn't and won't exist somehow got through u2's legal team for this

I haven't *seen* the u2 zootopia IP so maybe they don't have it. I'm not used to music marketing firms not aggressively play hunt the infringement

I thought U2's thing was "Zooropa"?

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:47

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Pissflaps posted:

Which one?

I forget what it was, people had photos of a TV where they'd made a word cloud about the most common reasons cited by people on each side. It was from something like a debate, not as official as an actual election survey. Gets brought up whenever people say 'it wasn't about immigration!'

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:49

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

jBrereton posted:

Well since the whole thing is being done under a massive cloud of secrecy I suppose we'll just have to see what TTIP brings to the continent.

nothing cos it's dead in the water

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:50

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

jBrereton posted:

Well since the whole thing is being done under a massive cloud of secrecy I suppose we'll just have to see what TTIP brings to the continent.

There is nothing stopping American companies opening up European subsidiaries at the moment.

Most major airlines already have partnership agreements with airlines in other countirs.

Eu is dominated by budget airlines and it's expensive to set up new routes and airlines.

Gonna be lots of industries that get hosed by brexit.

Ahaha goddamn the British are stupid

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:51

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

baka kaba posted:

I forget what it was, people had photos of a TV where they'd made a word cloud about the most common reasons cited by people on each side. It was from something like a debate, not as official as an actual election survey. Gets brought up whenever people say 'it wasn't about immigration!'

Are you sure you're not thinking of the word cloud created from focus groups conducted with ex labour supporters about why they were no longer going to vote labour? And it had CORBYN in massive letters right in the middle?

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:51

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# ? May 15, 2024 06:14

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

Pissflaps posted:

https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/844512043646496768

https://twitter.com/make_trouble/status/844512196046524416

These aren't so different. Opposition to immigration often boils down to the economy if you think about it

# ? Mar 22, 2017 12:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT March 2017 - Blame it on the Bourgie

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