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Allow me to present "The Burger Boys" BK ("Upper Management")  Fuddrucker ("Shift Manager")  "Customer Service" (Gangers) Checkers  Arby  Johnny Rocket  Jack  Hardee  Mac  Carl Jr.  "Fry Guys" (Juves) Wendy  Denny  Rally  Wimpy  Apologies for the sub-par photos - I'll get some better ones after Adepticon. I was going for a base color close to the NM tiles, and I wasn't able to get it exact, unfortunately. I think the bases did come out pretty well, regardless. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 16:29
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THE ADVENTURES OF SHITEHAIR & SHOULDERMONG
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Mar 19, 2017 17:02
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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/shadow-war-armageddon-promo-cards.html Some minor details on the cards - two specifically. These really look like they'll take the place of hired guns.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:25
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berzerkmonkey posted:Allow me to present "The Burger Boys" Love these guys and their naming convention. I miss my old Goliaths, Team MEAT will ride again, and Cocktail Weenie will overtake Whopper for gang leader.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:14
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SRM posted:Love these guys and their naming convention. I miss my old Goliaths, Team MEAT will ride again, and Cocktail Weenie will overtake Whopper for gang leader. Thanks - I figure that somewhere in the distant past, a ganger found an old corporate handbook from an ancient (now) underhive fast food joint and misinterpreted it. I plan on yelling "FLAME BROILED" when Hardee gets to cook someone. We'll be at Adepticon playing in the NM by Night game on Thursday if you want to swing by.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:19
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My local club is starting to look at Epic. As this was a game that was being wound down as I started GW stuff, I've always wanted to play it. Does anybody have a list of UK/EU suppliers where I can find some Chaos/Eldar stuff?ineptmule posted:This Is Not A Test sounds cool. However this quoted bit doesn't make sense to me - NM's underdog bonus helps weaker gangs level up quickly to get onto a level playing field quicker. Inducements just keep them at that low level. If experience is earned from hurting people, then any special characters or star players you use as part of your inducements surely just hog XP from your actual gangers? The difference is that all the inducements are really useful - you can buy things like mercs to make up the difference, rerolls, vicious wandering monsters and deploy them right by the enemy gang, limit the enemy gang for a few turns, night fighting (making fancy long-ranged weapons almost useless) etc. Games are won by VPs instead of achieving one objective/tabling your opponent, so winning the game is easier with the inducements. Winning gives you far more XP/money/loot than losing, so this system prevents people from getting too far from everyone else in the campaign. In contrast, the NM underdog/giant-killer stuff was great out-of-game but only if your gang actually survived against a better-armed for with more skills/upgrades. And with the number of scenarios that would restrict the participants of a gang, it'd mean most of a gang wouldn't even get this bonus. hexa fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 16:44
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glitchkrieg posted:In contrast, the NM underdog/giant-killer stuff was great out-of-game but only if your gang actually survived against a better-armed for with more skills/upgrades. And with the number of scenarios that would restrict the participants of a gang, it'd mean most of a gang wouldn't even get this bonus. True, but - and I know you've played plenty of NM so this isn't news to you - the player on the receiving end of a bad matchup usually gets to choose the scenario that is played and can select one where they get a big numbers advantage.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:15
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Crossposting:SteelMentor posted:New shots of that Shadespire thing. Looks like an expanded version of Gorechosen.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:09
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8th edition is already making nerds everywhere lose their poo poo, it's great. Unfortunately, I am not feeling the amount of schadenfreude I expected to feel.
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Mar 23, 2017 08:25
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Nerds were going to lose their poo poo in an embarrassing fashion no matter what 8th changed or did not change. It's the nature of manbabies.
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Mar 23, 2017 08:33
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JcDent posted:8th edition is already making nerds everywhere lose their poo poo, it's great. Unfortunately, I am not feeling the amount of schadenfreude I expected to feel. Is there any kind of breakdown of the 8E stuff coming out of Adepticon?
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Mar 23, 2017 11:55
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/ Tl;dr, a lot of the good stuff from AoS is getting merged into 40k, individual movement values are back,
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Mar 23, 2017 11:59
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SteelMentor posted:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/ "How can we take mechanics from Kings of War and make them worse."
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Mar 23, 2017 14:16
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SteelMentor posted:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/ Literally every single thing they listed there made me go "No, that is a terrible idea stop". You don't need rules to tell people how to play without points, people can already do that. Your rules should be based around the points system and making a balanced, rigorous rulesystem for that. Command points sound like they're making Formations even more common. Formations are bad, so more formations=more bad. Every model has bespoke rules doesn't mean you have to learn fewer rules in order to only cover your models, it means you have to learn WAY MORE rules because you also need to learn the rules for the models your opponents could be bringing. Save Modifiers COULD work, but will probably end up just making the current armor system worse. Charge hits first means that initiative is nearly useless, when it was already not a great stat. And giving every army Unstable just makes no sense, and seems like it would punish low Ld armies way more than is necessary.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:32
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I literally don't understand how even the dumbest person who actually plays games can say this: quote:Every model should have cool bespoke rules. Not only would that be more fun, but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models. Although that would explain a great deal about why GW games are so terribly balanced, if each designer only actually bothers to learn the rules for their own models and never checks anything else  I actually liked different movement rates and armor save modifiers, but there was a reason that they were scrapped in 3rd - if you use those rules in games with more than two or three units it bogs everything down. Oh, this squad is Guardians, so they have a movement of 5, but I attached Eldrad Ulthuan, and because he is old he has a movement of 4. Oh and this Banshee squad has a movement of 6, but I also brought their Phoenix Lord, Jain Zar, who has a movement of 7. Yes, this is a great system to use when I have a hundred loving dudes on the field.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:50
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Reading that, it really rams home that GW doesn't look to the competition at all. So many other games are ditching USR-per-unit and they've decided to go in the other direction?
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Mar 23, 2017 16:04
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Like I said, it's just concepts from Kings of War implemented in the worst ways possible. Unique movement stats are fine, except for when you can combine units with different movement values and some units have special movement and some units don't. Plus some units have unique movement rules on top of their movement stats. Great. Bespoke rules is just a bad implementation of every unit have universal special rules. Every unit in KoW is unique because only they have the specific combination of stats, special rules, and points that they have. But bespoke rules are more special because every unit gets its own text, regardless of how that will impact play or balance. Armor modifiers were eliminated for a reason, but now they're back because KoW (and Warpath...) does it in the form of reducing the Defense stat of defending units. When there are only two dice rolls being made, a to hit based on the attacker and a to wound based on the defender, the modifier against the defender's stat from the attacker's stat makes sense. When it's modifying the third roll, it's just slowing down gameplay. The attacker attacking first in melee is again something from Kings of War, but in KoW, only the charging unit even makes a roll. Melee in 40k is resolved from both directions, so having a lovely shooty unit attack an amazing melee unit shouldn't automatically resolve with the attacking unit going first.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:12
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glitchkrieg posted:Reading that, it really rams home that GW doesn't look to the competition at all. So many other games are ditching USR-per-unit and they've decided to go in the other direction? Having Universal Special Rules is a good thing (although there are many great wargames with few to no special rules), and having lots of units with them is also fine. This is because they are Universal. Stealth is Stealth, it doesn't matter who gets it or how it's worded on this specific unit, it's just a +1 cover modifier. This is the right way to handle units having special abilities, so that you can understand what your opponent is bringing with just a few key words rather than having to study their entire armybook. The wrong way to do it is the Age of Sigmar madness where every unit with a shield had a slightly different special rule to represent it, or to go back to the bad old days where every "ignore X penalty" or "gain Y bonus" rules had different names and slightly different wordings. Even stuff like Kings of War has USR, and they have almost no unique per-army rules. This lets them differentiate an Elf from a Human by just saying "The elves all have Elite, the humans don't. Here's the point difference" and having that A)be a meaningful difference you can plan your army and tactics around and B)Have everyone understand exactly what that means without referencing the army list.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:13
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Ok, I might have got USR wrong - I thought it was "Unique Special Rule". Ooops  Personally, after playing Infinity, I'm much more of a fan of that way of building a game system/army, where things are decided by equipment/traits/rules shared between (nearly) all of the factions. Makes it much easier for new players to identify what each unit in an opponent's list is supposed to do, and how to counter it.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:28
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There is basically no reason not to do that. The main reason that GW didn't was that they really just never planned ahead well and so when they made a new book or a new army they would literally make up entirely new effects for that army to have. So while Warmachine thought ahead and said 'Ok, we will have this special rule called 'Tough' that lets a unit shrug off a fatal attack on a dice roll, and give it to anyone that applies to', GW never did that until they were literally publishing an army (Necrons) and gave them their own rule for it (I'll be back). And then because they had decided to be cute and give it a in-joke name (because Necrons are Terminators, get it?) they would give subsequent armies a different name for a similar rule. They did actually try to consolidate them but then they were unable to commit to not making up stupid new poo poo, so it didn't last long.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:32
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Yeah, no, Infinity is definitely not good in rules clarity sense (also, Religious and Morat are the same, AFAIK, just by any other name, then you have combi, regular and multi rifles, T2 rifles, etc.), and regular USRs in 40K aren't that either. I like that an AoS Battlescroll has everything I need to know, 6 different flavor of shields included (and how hard will it impact your planning when a unit can reroll 1s vs. ignore mortal wounds on a 6?). Having the rules baked into a unit card is great. I think Dark Age and Malifaux do something like that. "Oh, how will I plan for the enemy when his army doesn't have USRs I don't know" is bunk. You know that they'll have hordes or they won't; have monsters or not; have wizards or not, etc. and prepare accordingly. Same goes with ham and any other game. With Shasvasti list, you can expect camo and maybe TO, as well as cheerleading flamer bots. With Stormcast, you can expect 4+ saves or better, 2 wounds per model, slow speed (sometimes) and no wizards. I don't get the point. Also, if the only difference between elves and humans in KoW is lack of elite, that sounds boring.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:17
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Kaza42 posted:Charge hits first means that initiative is nearly useless, when it was already not a great stat. The article says that Initiative is gone. They're probably going with the you go I go method from AoS, just that charge attacks are made and resolved in the movement phase and the charging unit doesn't get to attack in the combat phase.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:25
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JcDent posted:Yeah, no, Infinity is definitely not good in rules clarity sense (also, Religious and Morat are the same, AFAIK, just by any other name, then you have combi, regular and multi rifles, T2 rifles, etc.), and regular USRs in 40K aren't that either. But absent differences in weapon range or ammunition type, the important part about Infinity is that everyone's playing by the same rules. The base mechanics of the game are uniform between factions. Movement, shooting, AROs, etc are all standard. And the language used in writing those rules is far more consistent in its use of game terminology than anything GW has ever imagined in its wettest and wildest collective dream. It's not perfect (there are a handful of weird edge cases or ambiguities), but I remember the first time I read through the N3 rulebook - it was SO clear how the game was supposed to be played that I was stunned. GW really has set a low bar in this regard.
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Mar 23, 2017 22:07
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No one said unit cards were a bad idea. No one said having all the rules in front of you was a bad thing. This is one of those weird defenses of AoS that I just cannot get my head around. "Yes, convenient things are convenient, but they do not improve upon bad design." See, in Kings of War for instance, I can have my entire army on two pages, complete with all the stats and special rules every unit has. And I don't mean the army I'm fielding, I mean the dozens of entries in my list. I just have to reference the USRs in the USR section of the book. And if I'm using EasyArmy, then it automatically prints just the USRs that the units I selected have with my list. So I don't really know what's functionally different between having a dozen unit cards and having a three page army roster. It's basically the same amount of paper, just in a slightly different format. And if it's all digital anyway, it's literally the same thing. As far as the differences between Elves and Humans go in KoW, saying Elves are Elite and humans are not is a simplification. Basically, every army in KoW has a single USR that applies to every unit in the army (additionally, each unit tends to have one or two more USRs that flesh out the combat role of the unit, so Elf Spears have Elite and Phalanx, and Elf Knights have Elite and Thunderous Charge). That's the army's defining characteristic. So Elves are Elite. Salamanders have Crushing Strength. Humans are Very Inspiring. And the list goes on. But it's not like the Elf list and the Human list are otherwise identical, with identical unit entries that are different only in their base USR, points, and maybe some stat tweaks. There are a hell of a lot of differences. The thing is, in KoW, minor stat differences are actually pretty significant. In AoS, 3+/4+ or 4+/3+ is mathematically the same. But since in KoW you actually reference your opponent's Defense value, having a high to hit stat versus a low one is pretty significant since that's deciding your baseline for attempts against the defender's Defense. Likewise, LD in Warhammer has never been that big of a deal. There's not a huge difference between 7 and 8. But since there's a dual Nerve stat in Kings of War, a unit that's 12/14 will be used in a different role than a unit that's 11/13. Elf units tend not just to be Elite and to have high Ranged to hit stats, but also have high nerve meaning it's tough to drive them off. But Dwarves are harder to rout still because in addition to high Nerve stats, they have a USR that allows them to ignore being Wavered. So individual human units end up being easier to defeat than either, but that's fine because humans tend to come in Hordes and not in Regiments and you take piles of them, so a single loss doesn't matter. Use a single Elf or Dwarf unit and the army is going to suffer for it. Last, the lists themselves have a huge variety. Elves have flying large cavalry. Humans have nothing of the sort. Humans have handgunners and mortars that can wreck units if they hit. Elves have archers and bolt throwers, but they deliver consistent damage that slowly wears units away. So the play style is really different. What spells wizards have access to, who armies can ally with, who their special characters are, what unit sizes they can field, all of these are different in every army. So no, the difference isn't just "Elite" versus "not Elite".
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Mar 24, 2017 03:06
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Well, thanks for angrily explaining this thing that I wasn't aware off that was brought up as a major pro point for KoW (which... nobody plays in my tiny little country, because tiny little country). Infinity still has M values for every unit, two of them if you're using both points. And we have done a fair share of rulebook flipping looking for poo poo. The gun and ammo types is really getting obnoxious at this point, and I still don't quite get hacking and the ways it can fail. And I almost get 40Ks psychic phase, The poo poo Gameplay Innovation Nobody Needed Award winner for three editions. I think whatever 8th does, it won't make Hams worse, as it's already super bad. There's always OnePage/Grimdark Futures, I guess...
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Mar 24, 2017 06:30
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JcDent posted:Well, thanks for angrily explaining this thing that I wasn't aware off that was brought up as a major pro point for KoW (which... nobody plays in my tiny little country, because tiny little country). JcDent posted:Also, if the only difference between elves and humans in KoW is lack of elite, that sounds boring. If you don't want people explaining things to you, then don't criticize things you aren't familiar with. Saying that Elves are all Elite and humans aren't is still a fair way to compare the two armies and everyone knows exactly what that means because what Elite does never changes. And it is by no means the only distinction between the two, just the easiest thing to point out, so categorizing it as "boring" is a serious misinterpretation of Kings of War. It's not like the rules aren't free and you couldn't have gone and read them yourself.
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Mar 24, 2017 06:34
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Also I am totally on board with the idea that infinity can be fiddly with a lot of rules and edge cases. But you're comparing a game where your force is 5-10 models to loving 40k.
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Mar 24, 2017 09:45
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Thirsty Dog posted:Also I am totally on board with the idea that infinity can be fiddly with a lot of rules and edge cases. But you're comparing a game where your force is 5-10 models to loving 40k. Yeah, but 40K gets 5-10 units, which, with the exception of Deathwatch and IC attachments, usually have the same stats. It's not like you have 5-10 units where all models have different stats (save for weapons). 10 unit army of Space Marines (2000 pts?) will have greater uniformity in rules and stuff than my NCA sectorial at 200pts. Fortunately, Infinity doesn't have formations and detachments, which are a two layers of fiddly bullshit stacked on top of each other.
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Mar 24, 2017 10:00
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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/40k-shadow-wars-armageddon-latest-pics.html BolS posting with more pics of the game. Looks like there's going to be punch out tokens to worry about.
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Mar 24, 2017 11:29
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JcDent posted:Infinity stuff Infinity's not perfect, but considering that it's commonly labelled as really heavy, complex rules (and by 40K players!), I was pleasantly surprised how quick it was to pick up - so many things seemed to slot together and just work. Hell, I even managed to sort out hacking in my first league match, which was my fourth game ever, and I won the league final pretty much due to hacking my opponent's one killer piece (he had no plan to get out of Isolation). mcjomar posted:Looks like there's going to be punch out tokens to worry about. If they're going to be using 2E rules then I'm assuming the tokens will mostly be the same Overwatch/Flamed/Run tokens from there, plus standards like loot/objective markers. I'm curious about this, so will wait until somebody at my club inevitably buys it and runs an intro game. It might even tempt me to get some of my 40K Chaos out of retirement.
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Mar 24, 2017 11:51
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Infinity definitely has its quirks; for one thing, it's marker-happy. The upside of this is that it's easy to look at a model and any (all) of the markers around it and know exactly what effects apply to it (e.g. - Oh, this dude is Prone, therefore his movement is halved and he's Silhouette Size 0). The latest release of Human Sphere did include a bunch of  new ammo types, but most of those were updates of ammo types already present in the old N2 version of the book to bring them in line with how N3 works. Hacking is a little bit complicated, but so long as you can wrap your brain around figuring out how Repeaters work (and thus when the Firewall modifier applies - which is just "cover" against Hacking attacks), it has the benefit of everything working exactly the same way as everything else in the game. Interactions with Fireteams can get a little complicated. I personally think camo is a little too good when used in large quantities.But the weapon stuff is actually way easier than people make it out to be. A T2 Rifle is literally just a rifle that fires T2 ammo (inflicts 2 wounds instead of 1 on a failed ARM roll). A Breaker Rifle is a rifle that fires Breaker ammo (resist with half BTS). The range bands are all exactly the same.
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Mar 24, 2017 11:58
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mcjomar posted:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/40k-shadow-wars-armageddon-latest-pics.html How nice of BoLS to regurgitate everything we have already seen! Maybe I'm just an idiot who forgot that defending GW is a fool's errand, since they aren't really good at writing.
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Mar 24, 2017 12:16
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I guess time to move into this thread as currently I pretty much only paint / play Blood Bowl. Finished a bunch of beastmen for my Slaanesh themed Chaos Blood Bowl team. Just the warriors left to do now, and can move to the next project.   Edit: Holy poo poo I need some better way to take photos because mobile phone pics with window light sure come out different. with a rebel yell she QQd fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 13:23
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:I guess time to move into this thread as currently I pretty much only paint / play Blood Bowl. The mino/keeper of secrets is really nice, good job.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:26
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Sure, claw's a great skill on a mino, but extra arms??
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Mar 24, 2017 13:29
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Mr. Squishy posted:Sure, claw's a great skill on a mino, but extra arms?? Minos are really good ball carriers, but have to get them the ball somehow! (No I wouldnt actually take that mutation, unless the guy is somehow really maxed out.)
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Mar 24, 2017 13:34
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:I guess time to move into this thread as currently I pretty much only paint / play Blood Bowl. That's looking really, really nice. I swear I asked you about this before but can't seem to find the post - what's the recipe for the skin? I want to do something similar with a Chaos Champion I'm hopefully going to finish assemble on over the weekend. Warpfiend Grey -> Wash -> Slaanesh Grey? One of the people at my club swears by Minos as ball carriers, but he's somebody that also rolls an annoying amount of 6s...
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Mar 24, 2017 13:51
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glitchkrieg posted:That's looking really, really nice. I swear I asked you about this before but can't seem to find the post - what's the recipe for the skin? I want to do something similar with a Chaos Champion I'm hopefully going to finish assemble on over the weekend. Warpfiend Grey -> Wash -> Slaanesh Grey? Yep the colours are grey basecoat, Warpfiend -> Druchii violet wash -> Warpfiend cleanup -> Slaanesh grey -> tiny amount of thin Dheneb stone to finish it off. They look nice in person (my humble oppinion), somehow on photos they look like rear end, but I guess thats zoom and stuff... Last year's league I played in, had a guy with a mino ball carrier. He did everything in his power to get him the ball (and well he gave him all touchbacks) and the thing became a real beast(sic) thanks to the extra SPPs. Of course it also became a prized target that could not escape the wrath of 5-6 pairs of steel caped boots whenever it went down. Persistence and some lucky rolls made sure he would only play for undead teams in the future.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:17
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:I guess time to move into this thread as currently I pretty much only paint / play Blood Bowl. Rules. Hard.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:29
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:I guess time to move into this thread as currently I pretty much only paint / play Blood Bowl. wanna block that minotaur
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