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LethalGeek posted:If you're hording weapons in Zelda then I feel bad for you son
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Mar 22, 2017 18:58
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also nintendo has confirmed launch joycons have an engineering flaw, probably worth sending any in for repair even if you are not currently having issues: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/report-nintendo-is-fixing-disconnecting-joy-cons-with-conductive-foam/
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Mar 22, 2017 18:58
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Lemming posted:Yeah except there are lots of ways you learn over the course of the game to sneak into the castle without needing to fight anything, which is very cool and they'd need to change that, which is rebalancing the game!! But here's the problem, what we're talking about is already in the game just with a weapon durability system in place. There's nothing from stopping a good player from constantly looting the Castle over and over (since the weapons respawn anyway) and "breaking" the game never using low-rank gear. The game is all about being open and tackling objectives how the player sees fit and "balancing" the game so the player who did manage to loot high level weapons isn't that powerful completely goes against this. The game is fine with someone stomping through with the best weapons because even with that poo poo it's still challenging.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:04
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Stux posted:what? youre saying you would do something less fun on purpose knowing youd have less fun? that isnt what most people do sorry, in games like dark souls where you get a bunch of fun and interesting weapons and armor, people play the game like a dress up sim despite the high difficulty seemingly "rewarding" min/max play. its just not an issue and trying to rationalise an unfun and limiting design choice this way is bizarre There's obviously a continuum but if a tactic is sufficiently more effective, you're going to use it even if it's less fun. If for some reason claymores all did 1 damage (an extreme example), nobody would ever use them, even if someone might have more fun using the 2 hander with a spin charge attack and needing to focus on timed dodges instead of parries. In the case you brought up, if weapons never degraded, nobody would ever throw away their weapons manually, and now there's one fewer type of reward for combat and exploration, which would suck some of the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of people. It's like if you're playing a card game or a fighting game; if one character/deck is so oppressively much better than your favorite character/deck, there's a good chance you're going to dump your fun option for the effective one because you still want to be able to win.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:07
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s.i.r.e. posted:But here's the problem, what we're talking about is already in the game just with a weapon durability system in place. There's nothing from stopping a good player from constantly looting the Castle over and over (since the weapons respawn anyway) and "breaking" the game never using low-rank gear. The game is all about being open and tackling objectives how the player sees fit and "balancing" the game so the player who did manage to loot high level weapons isn't that powerful completely goes against this. The game is fine with someone stomping through with the best weapons because even with that poo poo it's still challenging. If you want to go back and constantly farm the best weapons you're sure free to, but it's not automatically more effective than playing normally because it's going to take you a lot, lot longer. You'd be trading your time for effectiveness in combat, which is both a fine decision to make and also not by default the "best" thing you could do to beat the game. I trade time for effectiveness in combat in different ways, by grabbing food and resources while exploring to get food that helps me fight. If you wanted to do a similar thing by raiding the castle constantly you could do that too! They are both effective, valid ways of playing because the weapon durability system exists. If it didn't you'd be gimping yourself by not grabbing the best stuff right off the bat, which would be lame.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:10
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Is there a countdown/reminder site for the spla2n testfire? I know I'm gonna forget the actual hour that they are running them.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:11
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s.i.r.e. posted:But here's the problem, what we're talking about is already in the game just with a weapon durability system in place. There's nothing from stopping a good player from constantly looting the Castle over and over (since the weapons respawn anyway) and "breaking" the game never using low-rank gear. The game is all about being open and tackling objectives how the player sees fit and "balancing" the game so the player who did manage to loot high level weapons isn't that powerful completely goes against this. The game is fine with someone stomping through with the best weapons because even with that poo poo it's still challenging. I visited Hyrule castle in the first few hours of the game and got some fantastic loot. If that loot had been permanent I would definitely have liked the game less because like 50% game would have been trivialized. As it is currently, I just had a few ace-in-the-hole weapons for dire situations for a while. Constantly waiting until items respawn and going back to Hyrule castle keep your super-good weapons is a also massive time waster. It's not very viable unless you really like tedium.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:11
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Stux posted:also nintendo has confirmed launch joycons have an engineering flaw, probably worth sending any in for repair even if you are not currently having issues:
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Mar 22, 2017 19:12
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In Zelda do you need the Master Sword to beat Ganon? Because if you do I think it could make for some interesting speed runs since you need 13 hearts to get the master sword there is so much routing that can be done to beat 32-40 shrines depending on number of beasts you want to take on even if you don't a category requiring it would be really fun to watch.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:14
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Given that there's two different boards it's probably a subset of launch hardware. Don't send something in unless it actually isn't working for you.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:14
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Bill Barber posted:lmfao it doesn't say that at all. Classic Stux. "Nintendo is offering a similar fix to users who call in to its support line, and the company may be selling redesigned, fixed controllers at stores right now." Lemming posted:There's obviously a continuum but if a tactic is sufficiently more effective, you're going to use it even if it's less fun. no, im not, im going to do whats fun because i play games to have fun? again with games like the souls games which are a lot more challenging than zelda, people genuinely use whatever they find most fun rather than min max builds, because games are about having fun. if you personally find yourself only doing min/max stuff in games and stifling your own fun maybe you should try making a conscious effort not to rather than assuming everyone needs some weird system forced on them to do so
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Mar 22, 2017 19:15
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parallelodad posted:Given that there's two different boards it's probably a subset of launch hardware. Don't send something in unless it actually isn't working for you. In 1-2-switch the timer on the gun game, whoever uses the left joycon always gets 100ms higher than they do with the right. I haven't had any decync issues but we've switched sides back and forth and right always wins because of this unless the right side has had way more to drink.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:16
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Stux posted:"Nintendo is offering a similar fix to users who call in to its support line, and the company may be selling redesigned, fixed controllers at stores right now."
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Mar 22, 2017 19:17
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i think its safe to say that if you bought a launch switch and have even the slightest suspicion that your left joycon may be faulty its worth sending it in to be fixed now while the offer is open rather than leaving it
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Mar 22, 2017 19:18
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Stux posted:no, im not, im going to do whats fun because i play games to have fun? again with games like the souls games which are a lot more challenging than zelda, people genuinely use whatever they find most fun rather than min max builds, because games are about having fun. if you personally find yourself only doing min/max stuff in games and stifling your own fun maybe you should try making a conscious effort not to rather than assuming everyone needs some weird system forced on them to do so I'm talking about the average player. Obviously there are individuals who do whatever they want, but to bring the example back to Zelda, you could make some of the easier games like Twilight Princess more difficult by never getting any more heart containers, and for sure less than 1% of players ever did that. Saying "you could just do x or y to have more fun!" is fundamentally misunderstanding the way that video games work. Edit: I'd also like to point out in your Souls example that the game is well designed enough that a wide range of things is effective, is the point. If one thing was far and away way more effective than everything else, that would be an issue and would definitely make the game less fun for a lot of people.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:19
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Bill Barber posted:A guy bought 2 joycons and one of them had a slightly different labeled circuit board. "Over at CNET, writer Sean Hollister recounts his experience with Nintendo customer service, which he calls "just about the best electronics customer service I've ever experienced." After getting a free overnight shipping label for his controller after a weekend call, Hollister received his controller back in the mail just five days after sending it. Opening up the fixed controller showed that Nintendo didn't have to do much to correct the connection issue. The only apparent difference is a small piece of black foam sitting on top of the corner of the controller board that houses the Bluetooth antenna trace. Hollister and his colleagues at TechRepublic presume that this is a piece of metal-coated conductive foam, designed to lessen interference from outside sources (including the big metal joystick housing that sits right next to the antenna on the left Joy-Con). Hollister says the controller stops working when the foam is removed, suggesting the tiny fix is all that was really needed."
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Mar 22, 2017 19:19
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Stux posted:"Nintendo is offering a similar fix to users who call in to its support line, and the company may be selling redesigned, fixed controllers at stores right now." That's not an announcement. They specifically have not replied to the article's question, as mentioned in the article. Replacement if you have a problem under warranty has always been their policy. The article saying "Nintendo may be doing X" is not a Nintendo announcement.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:19
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Stux posted:"Over at CNET, writer Sean Hollister recounts his experience with Nintendo customer service, which he calls "just about the best electronics customer service I've ever experienced." After getting a free overnight shipping label for his controller after a weekend call, Hollister received his controller back in the mail just five days after sending it.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:21
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Stux posted:i think its safe to say that if you bought a launch switch and have even the slightest suspicion that your left joycon may be faulty its worth sending it in to be fixed now while the offer is open rather than leaving it There is no open offer. They replace hardware if it doesn't work, as has always been the case.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:21
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Lemming posted:I'm talking about the average player. Obviously there are individuals who do whatever they want, but to bring the example back to Zelda, you could make some of the easier games like Twilight Princess more difficult by never getting any more heart containers, and for sure less than 1% of players ever did that. Saying "you could just do x or y to have more fun!" is fundamentally misunderstanding the way that video games work. the average player is a normal human who will naturally try out new weapons etc that they pick up out of curiosity and pick which ones to use based on what they personally feel works best rather than statistical based min maxing. min maxing is not what average players do.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:21
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isnt this the same argument we've had since final fantasy elixirs. just use the drat elixirs
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Mar 22, 2017 19:21
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Blazing Zero posted:isnt this the same argument we've had since final fantasy elixirs. just use the drat elixirs But I need them for my mana! Know what, better not even use mana during the last boss, he might have a second form just gonna auto attack him.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:23
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Bill Barber posted:Nintendo hasn't confirmed any sort of engineering flaw, which is what you initially stated when posting the link. repairing malfunctioning units is an admission parallelodad posted:There is no open offer. They replace hardware if it doesn't work, as has always been the case. yes, and many people have a faulty left joycon. if you think yours is faulty its worth sending it in to be fixed now even if its only been a minor complaint. do you have some issue with people getting broken hardware replaced or something? i dont really understand your issue with nintendo fixing broken joycons
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Mar 22, 2017 19:23
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Stux posted:the average player is a normal human who will naturally try out new weapons etc that they pick up out of curiosity and pick which ones to use based on what they personally feel works best rather than statistical based min maxing. min maxing is not what average players do. That's exactly my point. If you like the way the one handed sword plays best but you pick up an axe and it always kills everything in one hit, the average player will still use the axe and that would be indicative of poor balancing. In Zelda, if there was no weapon durability, if you found a super strong weapon you would only use that forever. That is the balance issue.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:24
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i mean most people would generally see this as a huge positive that a company like nintendo is happy to accept and repair broken joycons especially after what happened with microsoft and the RROD on the 360 and how long it took to get that sorted as they tried to avoid it. i personally think nintendo deserve praise for nipping this in the bud now by providing repairs to anyone who has an issue with their left joycon.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:25
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Lemming posted:That's exactly my point. If you like the way the one handed sword plays best but you pick up an axe and it always kills everything in one hit, the average player will still use the axe and that would be indicative of poor balancing. i think you're confusing what you would do with what people actually do. many games do in fact have heavier weapons which do more/lots of damage but they arent ubiquitous as people will prefer to use a lower damage but better handling weapon. this has been a solved problem in gaming for a long time and adding durability in this way does nothing but penalize people and stop them from using things they enjoy using.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:27
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Stux posted:repairing malfunctioning units is an admission It wasn't a engineering flaw it was a flaw with manufacturing process and that they didn't have robust enough QA on their early manufacturing lots to catch.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:28
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Norns posted:I agree the menus and inventory are kinda crap. Like, the Sheikah Slate is definitely supposed to be a gamepad, and you can see how much better inventory would have been if you had access to your inventory on it. poo poo, maybe they axed gamepad features because it would have clearly made the Wii U version the definitive one.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:30
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Stux posted:repairing malfunctioning units is an admission You said "probably worth sending any in for repair even if you are not currently having issues" which is stupid. Replacing broken hardware is good, if you have broken hardware sending it in is good. You telling people to send them in even if they don't have any problems is stupid. Especially because launch units were manufactured from anywhere between November and February and are confirmed by various teardowns to have some minor differences.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:32
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Lemming posted:That's exactly my point. If you like the way the one handed sword plays best but you pick up an axe and it always kills everything in one hit, the average player will still use the axe and that would be indicative of poor balancing. I don't think this is true, because the game designers did a good job of balancing pros and cons for each weapon. One handed weapons are great because you can strike repeatedly AND use a shield, even if it does less damage. Spears are awesome for the same reason, but they also allow you to strike from a further away range. Two handed melee weapons are powerful, but it takes longer to wind up and swing, it also tends to knock the enemy back like 15-20 feet so you have to run over to them before dealing them another blow. That is to say, that the most powerful weapons have pretty big downsides, even if they were indestructible.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:32
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parallelodad posted:You said "probably worth sending any in for repair even if you are not currently having issues" which is stupid. Replacing broken hardware is good, if you have broken hardware sending it in is good. You telling people to send them in even if they don't have any problems is stupid. Especially because launch units were manufactured from anywhere between November and February and are confirmed by various teardowns to have some minor differences. well exactly, as its not easy to tell if you have an older or newer joycon without tearing it down, its worth sending them in to be fixed anyway imo. if you dont want to then thats ok too, but if someone is worried about issues in the future there is no harm in getting it sorted now. Ohtsam posted:It wasn't a engineering flaw it was a flaw with manufacturing process and that they didn't have robust enough QA on their early manufacturing lots to catch. those things are part of engineering
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Mar 22, 2017 19:34
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Stux posted:i think you're confusing what you would do with what people actually do. many games do in fact have heavier weapons which do more/lots of damage but they arent ubiquitous as people will prefer to use a lower damage but better handling weapon. this has been a solved problem in gaming for a long time and adding durability in this way does nothing but penalize people and stop them from using things they enjoy using. I get that your thing is being deliberately obtuse, but I'm not talking about a well balanced games with multiple viable options. You seem to be deliberately misreading what I'm saying. I was bringing up a hypothetical where there are two options, a one handed sword and an axe, and in that specific case, the balance was hosed and the axe is flat out better in every way. Even if you'd prefer the playstyle of the one handed sword, the average player would almost always use the clearly more effective axe. This would be indicative of a failing of the game, which would naturally lead to one method of playing it be obviously more effective which would make the game less fun. When you're talking about BotW specifically, you can't look at the weapon durability system in a vacuum, you have to look at it in the context of the game. In the context of BotW, removing weapon durability would make the game work much, much worse. The reasons for it have been pretty extensively gone over, if you'd care to read them in good faith.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:34
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Lemming posted:I get that your thing is being deliberately obtuse, but I'm not talking about a well balanced games with multiple viable options. You seem to be deliberately misreading what I'm saying. I was bringing up a hypothetical where there are two options, a one handed sword and an axe, and in that specific case, the balance was hosed and the axe is flat out better in every way. you brought up a strawman and i ignored it, yes.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:36
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Mahoning posted:I don't think this is true, because the game designers did a good job of balancing pros and cons for each weapon. One handed weapons are great because you can strike repeatedly AND use a shield, even if it does less damage. Spears are awesome for the same reason, but they also allow you to strike from a further away range. Two handed melee weapons are powerful, but it takes longer to wind up and swing, it also tends to knock the enemy back like 15-20 feet so you have to run over to them before dealing them another blow. Right, I meant more generally, like if you found a Royal Guard Sword with 48 attack you'd never go back to using a rusty sword or spiked boko club in a pinch. If you found a similarly strong weapon in a different category you might use it, but you'd only be finding "better" weapons a handful of times over the course of the game in that hypothetical vs how you find them constantly the way it is now.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:36
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Just lol if you don't have the one true weapon and use it until it's gone then wait 10 minutes to use it again.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:37
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The thing is you don't know if your playing conditions right now are the ones you're always going to have. You might get an aquarium or something, and according to Nintendo, that could set off interference If all early Joy-con are missing the foam and all latter ones will have the foam, then it's a free foamy bluetooth connection enhancer that will only serve to improve your experience
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Mar 22, 2017 19:37
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If you found a super strong OH sword, you would always use that sword when you need a OH weapon. The same goes for any category. The current system works pretty well to make you switch things up every once in a while.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:37
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Pants Donkey posted:This is almost assuredly because the game was supposed to be a Wii U title. Once the game had to be ported to the Switch, they dropped gamepad features to make it easier on development. I don't think a touch screen interface would have been any better. You'd still have to navigate through a bunch of menus before touching anything to pick your inventory which wouldn't have been any quicker. The main thing that takes up time is the paging and finding stuff. The touchscreen really only helps if you have just one page of static inventory like in previous 3d Zelda games. With ten or more pages of it it's going to be slow regardless. For the map, having a second screen map would have just split your attention and distracted from the actual exploration, making it more like any other open world game where people just stare at the waypoint on the map and walk in a straight line.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:38
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Stux posted:you brought up a strawman and i ignored it, yes. It's not a strawman, it's analogous to how removing weapon durability in BotW would severely and negatively impact the balance of the weapon system. Just because you don't care to think about the consequences of changing the system doesn't mean a reasoned argument is a strawman.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:38
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I think having to render the menu system on the gamepad would have just made even more performance problems on the WiiU, which already runs worse than the Switch version.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:40
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