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S.J. posted:I'm sorry you had to find out like this. Oh my god
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Mar 22, 2017 19:01
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mcjomar posted:Okay so if we turned the question on its head, what would be a good non-D&D, non-PF, non-Hackmaster suggestion for a tactical tabletop RPG? guild ball. maybe what you want is a tabletop war game with tracking instead of a traditional RPG. beyond that, i like 13A, goons like Strike, but those are d&d4e-likes so maybe it's not what you're looking for
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Mar 22, 2017 19:12
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Thirsty Dog posted:From the bad thread:  Noted Serious Posters, Hixson and Panascope. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 20:20
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Cease to Hope posted:guild ball. maybe what you want is a tabletop war game with tracking instead of a traditional RPG. Well I was mostly looking from the tabletop rpg angle of 'thread says d&d is bad" so if 13A and Strike come goon recommended then that works for me as a suggestion thank you. In regards wargames with tracking I've gone with necromunda and mordheim in the past and this thread has previously suggested the 5 men in normandy rules as a good basis for that too (theguy who wrote those rules has also written scifi versions). I think there may have been others but my memory sometimes sucks. I also like battltech campaign rules (either literal or chaos campaign or even the old bmr pilot experience rules) but those are quite in depth to a lesser or greater degree with plenty of overhead (bmr excepted) so there's that. Although you can combine with atow but I hear that has its own issues.
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Mar 22, 2017 20:22
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ITSHAPPENING.GIF
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Mar 22, 2017 20:38
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TKIY posted:ITSHAPPENING.GIF The Age of the Emperor Cometh! 
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Mar 22, 2017 20:43
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A turd so perfect they want to give it to fans again
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Mar 22, 2017 23:01
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Safety Factor posted:
I try not to internalise any information on bad thread posters.
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Mar 23, 2017 00:04
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Yeah so age of the emperor is happening. Detailed in the 40K thread but the first things they showed are lifted right from AoS. They lifted good things from AoS at least.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:00
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panascope is a funny poster but underappreciated outside of the bad thread
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Mar 23, 2017 05:06
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TKIY posted:They lifted good things from AoS at least. Actually no they haven't brought squats back in 40k
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Mar 23, 2017 05:06
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I'm not going back to the bad thread... I would like to know what's happening with 40k, though. I have a gently caress tonne of disassembled DEldar and wondering if i should give up all hope on it. (Not that there's much help for them in the first place, mind. I mean, they're DEldar and I am far from consistent in my painting.)
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Mar 23, 2017 05:21
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get ready for 2.5 edition. movement stat is back 
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Mar 23, 2017 05:23
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The hell is the movement stat?
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Mar 23, 2017 05:35
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Irate Tree posted:I'm not going back to the bad thread... I would like to know what's happening with 40k, though. I have a gently caress tonne of disassembled DEldar and wondering if i should give up all hope on it. (Not that there's much help for them in the first place, mind. I mean, they're DEldar and I am far from consistent in my painting.) Come to the magical land of Mantic friend NTRabbit posted:The hell is the movement stat? Every Mantic game has a movement stat. I don't know that it significantly slows down or speeds up play including or removing it, especially not when half the units have special movement rules anyway. But yes I'd also appreciate a breakdown of what is happening.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:39
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Irate Tree posted:I'm not going back to the bad thread... I would like to know what's happening with 40k, though. TheChirurgeon posted:NEW loving DEATH GUARD
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Mar 23, 2017 05:43
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Atlas Hugged posted:Come to the magical land of Mantic friend So it's just the movement distance a unit is allowed? It's such a basic thing I thought 40k had it already 
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Mar 23, 2017 05:50
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NTRabbit posted:So it's just the movement distance a unit is allowed? It's such a basic thing I thought 40k had it already They got rid of it as a stat in 3e and instead had everything move at the same speed based on unit type. So all infantry, be it a Space Marine or an Ork Nob or a Tyrannid Warrior all move 6", Fast Attack moved 12" and I think vehicles moved 12" as well but with different affects to shooting. Several infantry units had "Fleet of Foot/Claw/X" that allowed them to move an extra D6" if they didn't shoot. My pet theory is that they dropped squats solely because of the change to movement. How could squats move 6"? I don't really think this is the real reason, but I bet some people have used it to justify not bringing squats back.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:52
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the last time squat minis were released for 40k was in 1990. then they got rid of them 8 years later when 3rd edition dropped. probably justified it like how they handled whfb, ie no support leads to low sales leads to gw going hmm no one cares about thing, delete
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Mar 23, 2017 06:02
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Ask Mantic how
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Mar 23, 2017 06:23
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:the last time squat minis were released for 40k was in 1990. then they got rid of them 8 years later when 3rd edition dropped. probably justified it like how they handled whfb, ie no support leads to low sales leads to gw going hmm no one cares about thing, delete Well obviously this is the real reason.
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Mar 23, 2017 06:27
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Movement stats are good and removing them only to add in special rules to compensate is bad.
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Mar 23, 2017 07:05
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mcjomar posted:Okay so if we turned the question on its head, what would be a good non-D&D, non-PF, non-Hackmaster suggestion for a tactical tabletop RPG? You could consider Iron Kingdoms, which is an RPG that uses the rules from Warmachine/Hordes more or less unchanged for stuff like movement and combat.
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Mar 23, 2017 07:14
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Movement stats are good and removing them only to add in special rules to compensate is bad. GW thought 6" movement, 12" assault moves would be enough to make melee-only units that weren't jump-packers worth using. they were incorrect. the reason MV was ditched as a stat was to standardize threat ranges. weapons were all standardized around foot-long increments, movement was all broken up into 6" chunks. it didn't work out 100% perfectly because of vehicle entrance/exit rules and later additions like fleet, but it did and to this day still does mostly prevent WMH-style "I want to be between exactly 13.5 and 14.5 inches away from the enemy" range bracket shenanigans that you did see constantly in 40K 2e Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 08:05
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Cease to Hope posted:
Fleet of Foot was introduced in the 3e Eldar codex and then began to pop up other places as well.
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Mar 23, 2017 08:41
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Movement stat making a comeback makes sense, since not many units actually move just the standard 6". There's so much Fleet of foot/claw/talon/rollerscates that a huge amount of models actually move 6+d6". Also they introduced a special rule that just adds 3" to the models movement. Having movement be a stat instead of a ton of modifiers and special rules helps streamline the game. Now if only Leadership stat started to have a purpose.
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Mar 23, 2017 08:47
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I laughed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dl0OtWqCa0 (couldn't see this posted since I last checked the thread, apologies if it's already done)
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Mar 23, 2017 09:04
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I quite like the look of those plague marines...
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Mar 23, 2017 09:46
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Southern Heel posted:I laughed: "What about all those square bases we have laying around? We're not using them for anything!" Ouch, low blow, Gee Dubs, low blow.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:48
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mcjomar posted:Okay so if we turned the question on its head, what would be a good non-D&D, non-PF, non-Hackmaster suggestion for a tactical tabletop RPG? Depends what you're looking for. If you consider an entire dungeon crawl or mission as a tactical challenge, where players try to manage resources efficiently between multiple encounters and navigate the obstacles set by the GM, there's a few around, like old-school D&D style stuff, but for a string of wargame-style neatly balanced encounters like most people were discussing there isn't going to be many for a few reasons. 1. It's asymmetrical in a lot of ways: Different numbers of actions, different economies at play (Players need to think about the next fights, while the GM's monsters can go all-out) 2. Lots of variance in power: Even excluding fundamental balance issues, like wizards vs fighters in a lot of D&D, there's different focuses (Social characters, Skill Monkeys) 3. Narrative chaos. The players will want to do poo poo like swing on chandelabras or have crazy schemes with Alchemist's Fire, they might have set off an alarm before so there should be more guys around in the story, or they might have run in a completely different direction to what you planned and battle against a riot they caused rather than the goblin warrens you planned, so it's really hard to plan out encounters at a complex level 4. There's at least 5 people around, so you spend a lot of time waiting for your turn to act, which gets even worse in a more complex, tactical game as people really try to make the perfect move 5. Darryl can't make it tonight, he's got a test tomorrow, now the party lost 20% of it's power
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Mar 23, 2017 10:19
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rumble in the bunghole posted:Depends what you're looking for. If you consider an entire dungeon crawl or mission as a tactical challenge, where players try to manage resources efficiently between multiple encounters and navigate the obstacles set by the GM, there's a few around, like old-school D&D style stuff, but for a string of wargame-style neatly balanced encounters like most people were discussing there isn't going to be many for a few reasons. Either of these options would work for those times when you want to be more crunchy as opposed to more narrative (I'm really liking the way that Fate, OLRPG, DW/PbtA etc look for narrative games). Mostly just thinking about ways to replace D&D with a better system that still scratches the "crunch" itch, but without being a lovely system. rumble in the bunghole posted:The players will want to do poo poo like swing on chandelabras or have crazy schemes with Alchemist's Fire, they might have set off an alarm before so there should be more guys around in the story, or they might have run in a completely different direction to what you planned and battle against a riot they caused rather than the goblin warrens you planned, so it's really hard to plan out encounters at a complex level This is basically me, though obviously most of this stuff would be easier in a Fate system (or Fate-like) rather than PF, say. rumble in the bunghole posted:5. Darryl can't make it tonight, he's got a test tomorrow, now the party lost 20% of it's power From a pure wargamers perspective if you're doing this at your local club, then situationally you could always "sub" in someone to either a: control his character, or b: control someone from a stable of henchmen NPCs to temporarily fill that slot till he can get back (assuming you add in things like henchmen or whatever). Alternatively it depends how critical Darryl is for the group to move forward, or if the group can theoretically adjust on a tactical level using alternative solutions to their normal problems. But yes, this is absolutely an issue (although this is an issue for most RP groups anyway, in a sense, right? Like, to a lesser or greater degree?) mcjomar fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 10:53
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mcjomar posted:Mostly just thinking about ways to replace D&D with a better system that still scratches the "crunch" itch, but without being a lovely system.
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Mar 23, 2017 11:50
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TKIY posted:Yeah so age of the emperor is happening. Detailed in the 40K thread but the first things they showed are lifted right from AoS. Too bad it looks like they might have lifted the close combat activation rules, which is the most counter-intuitive system I've ever had the displeasure of playing.
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Mar 23, 2017 13:14
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mcjomar posted:Okay so I've abused the forum search function, and also dug through google, and done a little rule skimming in regards Open Legend. That was me. Since my review they overhauled a lot of things, such as changing the layout of the rules to a more sensible one, added some rules, and made lots of tweaks that on my quick cursory look fixed a lot of the mechanical optimizations I pointed out like how agility characters got screwed over in lots of little ways. I should honestly rereview when they go to print since they seem to have made a ton of effort improving it.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:00
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new 40K 8e innovations: all the poo poo we removed from 2e because it wasn't fun or good
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Mar 23, 2017 18:17
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I hope I can get a virus grenade and one shot my opponent's army that was cool to do in 2nd. My memories of 2nd was just my friends and I thinking up more ridiculous silver bullets to gently caress over each other.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:19
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Cease to Hope posted:new 40K 8e innovations: joke's on you, most of that poo poo was already dumped back in during 6th and 7th edition!
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Mar 23, 2017 18:21
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Cease to Hope posted:new 40K 8e innovations: Turns out it actually was fun, and good.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:20
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Radish posted:I hope I can get a virus grenade and one shot my opponent's army that was cool to do in 2nd. I clearly remember a 2ed white dwarf article talking about army composition, and it saying 'This army made entirely of Warp Spiders isn't horrible and broken, because if your opponent brings an Ork army made entirely of pulsa rokkits, he can prevent you ever moving and using your cool abilities!' Which is a neat package of both how terrible the design space was in 2ed and how little the designers considered it an issue.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:22
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Radish posted:I hope I can get a virus grenade and one shot my opponent's army that was cool to do in 2nd. That's all it was. gently caress 2nd edition 40k
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Mar 23, 2017 18:30
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