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Technowolf posted:Please tell me you tell "SUFFER ME NOW!" every time you see her. That and "I SEE YOU!"
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Mar 23, 2017 15:11
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What do you guys that are replaying the original think about the nemesis system there in retrospect? I'm replaying too and i just can't get the nemesis system to actually do anything cool for me, nobody coming back to life, getting burned or maimed. Hope they beef it up like gently caress for SoW, it seems like they are tho.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:33
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I'm enjoying myself. I make sure that if I don't die for an hour or two, to use a tower to advance time. I do think the combat is pretty easy, but not so easy that I don't ever have to run away. This gives them a chance to establish a relationship with me, help me recognize them, as opposed to just wheat before the thresher. I mean, sometimes you run into a couple of orcs who work together well, archer and something else, and you got to leg it.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:06
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Dongattack posted:What do you guys that are replaying the original think about the nemesis system there in retrospect? I'm replaying too and i just can't get the nemesis system to actually do anything cool for me, nobody coming back to life, getting burned or maimed. Hope they beef it up like gently caress for SoW, it seems like they are tho. Try throwing guys off cliffs or killing them with environmental hazards, that seems to bring them back a bit more.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:07
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Dongattack posted:What do you guys that are replaying the original think about the nemesis system there in retrospect? I'm replaying too and i just can't get the nemesis system to actually do anything cool for me, nobody coming back to life, getting burned or maimed. Hope they beef it up like gently caress for SoW, it seems like they are tho. I actually got almost no one to come back or become particularly stubborn in my first run of the game + DLCs, but this time I've been inundated with not just resurrections but captains who will actively hunt me in the world, something I didn't get a ton of either. It's been fun, and I loved SoM even when that stuff wasn't as active a part, so I'm diggin' it.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:35
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I didn't have many Captains come back, but man, the ones that did came back forever. There was one guy I set on fire, had killed by various monsters, decapitated like 5 times, shot him, everything. He kept coming back with a sack on his head and more leather belts to hold his skull on. He wasn't any harder to kill, but he would show up like every 45 minutes. The only guy who actually gave me trouble mercifully stayed dead when I finally killed him. He was a javelin guy with poison javs that couldn't be vaulted over, combat finished, stealth killed, or ranged kill. And all his bodyguards were poison javelins too. So you couldn't do poo poo to try and kill him quickly, he did a ton of damage and wasn't really counterable. I think I ended up assassinating him with poisoned grog at his own banquet.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:40
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I noticed in the teaser stuff that Talion is still using the broken longsword as a dagger. I really liked that the Wraith reforged your gear as you completed the legends and it feels weird to step back from that, or at the least make that stuff non-canon.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:46
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SettingSun posted:I noticed in the teaser stuff that Talion is still using the broken longsword as a dagger. I really liked that the Wraith reforged your gear as you completed the legends and it feels weird to step back from that, or at the least make that stuff non-canon. I'm guessing they wanted to keep the iconography of Talion using his dead son's sword. Also really glad they didn't use his design from the beastmaster dlc. That was real bad.
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Mar 23, 2017 16:53
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I think a big part of the nemesis system not working too well for me in the original is the fact that i have the attention span of a retarded babby. I just can't remember my interactions with the orks  I think that might be better in this one tho, the ork names are less word salad and you seem to do a lot of varied things with them. Honestly i would be real happy if there was a little blurb like "this is your history with this ork: you poisoned his grog at his own feast and then threw him off a cliff".
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Mar 23, 2017 23:43
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Dongattack posted:I think that might be better in this one tho, the ork names are less word salad Are you forgetting the mighty Dush?
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Mar 24, 2017 00:04
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Dongattack posted:I think that might be better in this one tho, the ork names are less word salad and you seem to do a lot of varied things with them. Honestly i would be real happy if there was a little blurb like "this is your history with this ork: you poisoned his grog at his own feast and then threw him off a cliff". This has the potential to be absolutely hysterical if you had a long history with the character. Would be like the plot of Stepbrothers but with orcs.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:14
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:Are you forgetting the mighty Dush? I like Uggü better, something very satisfying about hearing a gabble of orks going "Ugguuu, ugguuuuu, ugguuu~".
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Mar 24, 2017 00:15
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Dongattack posted:What do you guys that are replaying the original think about the nemesis system there in retrospect? I'm replaying too and i just can't get the nemesis system to actually do anything cool for me, nobody coming back to life, getting burned or maimed. Hope they beef it up like gently caress for SoW, it seems like they are tho. once you get to a ceirten level. dudes stop coming back. once and while one will but most stay dead. Dongattack posted:I think a big part of the nemesis system not working too well for me in the original is the fact that i have the attention span of a retarded babby. I just can't remember my interactions with the orks yeah. its fun and great for the first playthrough, but once you play it for so long, you start to see its limits and walls. its great concpet and works great but its still a prototype. once you are maxed out and have played the game for like 40 hours, you basicaly become the Man in black from westworld. just loving about and pushing the system and trying to find hidden meta games and depth.  my face when i actually fight a orc who great. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 00:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:once you get to a ceirten level. dudes stop coming back. once and while one will but most stay dead. Do you have a source for that? It sounds counter intuitive, the game should be getting harder the further you go in it, but it would also explain everything about why i have never gotten anyone to return.
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Mar 24, 2017 01:08
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Dongattack posted:Do you have a source for that? It sounds counter intuitive, the game should be getting harder the further you go in it, but it would also explain everything about why i have never gotten anyone to return. i think its more because you get powerful as gently caress and most captains you fight are either decapitated in finishers or so hosed up that they don't come back. in my game, they kinda just stopped coming back once i got powerful enough.
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Mar 24, 2017 01:15
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Dongattack posted:Do you have a source for that? It sounds counter intuitive, the game should be getting harder the further you go in it, but it would also explain everything about why i have never gotten anyone to return. If your captain gets angry at the sight of Graugs, can they actually win a fight while alone or with a small group? Do they need some equipment buffs to survive?
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Mar 24, 2017 02:53
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Read in a very thorough reddit thread that "I've also noticed recently that the more Captains you face/kill, the trigger will stop working. Even if all other Captains you killed lost their heads. I did this with a Graug. Ate a lot, tried the trigger and the Captain did not come back." So that may be why either successful or high level players didn't get much mileage out of the nemesis system in the original. Hope its not like that in this one D: Here is the thread for anyone interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/shadowofmordor/comments/4rni0w/updated_captain_injury_and_causes_list_how_to/ edit: turns out the dude has a autismally thorough youtube channel dedicated to all things SoM and SoW and how the nemesis system works, some pretty cool vids in there including this one all about getting Ratbag back alive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MSwkVJ-7Ks might be a nice channel to follow in the months to come Dongattack fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 04:00
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So this looks like an improvement on the Nemesis system, but from what I can tell it lost the open world aspect, if I'm to take that demo video at face value. There is no open world in the demo, just a world map you select instanced missions to "launch". Not sure I like that. Has anybody seen any indication that there's an open world to roam around in?
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Mar 24, 2017 10:25
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Arsonide posted:So this looks like an improvement on the Nemesis system, but from what I can tell it lost the open world aspect, if I'm to take that demo video at face value. There is no open world in the demo, just a world map you select instanced missions to "launch". Not sure I like that. Has anybody seen any indication that there's an open world to roam around in? Yes, those missions are special 'gain control of a region' raids on the capitals. You build up your armies and recruit captains in areas more like the original apparently.
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Mar 24, 2017 10:30
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Zore posted:Yes, those missions are special 'gain control of a region' raids on the capitals. You build up your armies and recruit captains in areas more like the original apparently. Oh so it's open world plus instanced raids. I'm alright with that. I just saw an IGN article that mentioned large open world areas, so yeah, that puts my mind at ease.
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Mar 24, 2017 10:34
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Their initial statements are 8 areas that are all bigger than Nurnen and Mudzone from the first game, but the pull out at the end of their first trailer stuff seems to indicate a great deal more than that, so who knows what that's about.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:44
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They are gonna do the SoM speed challenge on stream today, which may be fun cause i think they will fail spectacularly  But i would be very surprised if they actually had something new in regards to this game to talk about/show off.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:25
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Yeah I don't expect there'll be live gameplay of SoW for another month or more, and I'll definitely post with nice big sirens when there is. E: Interesting stuff from stream; You can use your army in the open world areas, specifically he said your bodyguard(s) could rock around with you as an example. Sauron will be a boss. Fastest internal speedruns are averaging 3-4 times longer than SoM. You can do fortresses solo if you want. Sorta-kinda confirming branding humans at some point. Orv fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 21:09
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Orv posted:Yeah I don't expect there'll be live gameplay of SoW for another month or more, and I'll definitely post with nice big sirens when there is. cool. i hope the humans thing means easterlings and maybe more black numanerions.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:45
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Orv posted:Yeah I don't expect there'll be live gameplay of SoW for another month or more, and I'll definitely post with nice big sirens when there is. Branding humans is a bit... off-putting, though it really shouldn't be any more off-putting than branding orcs is. How much of the stream do I have to watch to see all of this? I guess its from the interview before the speed trial? Also has anyone made it through the second stream, the Q&A one? Is it worth watching at all?
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Mar 25, 2017 15:46
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It's all from the de Plater stuff before the speed trial, yeah. On second thought, what he says specifically re: humans is that you will at some point in the story have human bodyguards, and he might just be referring to the opening act in Minas Ithil. Still, I think with Gondor as part of the world this time, branding humans is a definite possibility. As for the second Q&A, it didn't answer anything that wasn't already self-evident from the gameplay trailer or statements they'd made since then, and was overall pretty pointless.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:04
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I don't think it's branding anymore, obv we don't know for sure at this stage. But seeing as uruks regain their personality, can speak to Talion and even have the ability to betray him if they don't agree with him. I think we're not talking mindcontrol anymore, but at worst some kinda ring influenced manipulation. So i would be surprised if you branded humans SoM style and had them walking around as zombies without any kind of thought of their own.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:09
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He spoke to some of that as well, it's basically upgraded branding where they retain their personality and opinions, though whether that's a story thing or just an excuse for a bigger game ???.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:01
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I thought that Talion branded the Flame Trickster orc during the gameplay trailer. Maybe some of your followers are branded and some aren't?
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Mar 25, 2017 17:02
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It sounds weird, but in the end no weirder than Isildur locking down the Dead of Dunharrow because they disobeyed. That's branding beyond death, that is.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:05
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Quiet Python posted:I thought that Talion branded the Flame Trickster orc during the gameplay trailer. Maybe some of your followers are branded and some aren't? No, we definitely saw Talion branding that Captain. My guess is that branding is basically the same, Orcs just keep their personalities and can break free in some circumstances. Also aesthetically they got rid of the handprint/eyeglow which is nice.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:08
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Quiet Python posted:I thought that Talion branded the Flame Trickster orc during the gameplay trailer. Maybe some of your followers are branded and some aren't? They've basically rebranded (har har) branding to just let orcs have personalities and expand the Nemesis system. It's still the same SUFFER ME NOW hand thingy.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:38
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If you need a fluff reason to justify it, he's using less branding juice per orc so he can keep control of an army rather than 5 guys.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:59
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Zaodai posted:If you need a fluff reason to justify it, he's using less branding juice per orc so he can keep control of an army rather than 5 guys. Alternatively he's just using a lighter touch to allow for more complex orders and behaviour on the orcs' parts. In SoM it was a pretty brute-force thing that just allow for "go and kill that guy"-type of instructions. That was all well and good when you just want to gently caress up the power structure in some random place, but if you want your dudes to actually lead a proper army and conduct a real military campaign you'll need something a bit more subtle.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:55
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Branding is no longer 100% mind control to allow for more kinds of interaction. The specific example he gave was that if you brand an orc and then kill his best friend who still works for Sauron, he might hate you enough to betray you. Also I think that earlier they said pretty definitively that the nemesis system only contains orcs and the huge orcs, so even if humans appear at some point it's going to be limited.
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Mar 25, 2017 22:02
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A GTA game with the nemesis system would be so so lovely 
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Mar 25, 2017 23:12
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Omnicarus posted:A GTA game with the nemesis system would be so so lovely Er... no? How would that even work? Seeding random gang members into procedural missions and having them quip at you? How long do you even encounter a normal enemy in GTA? Like <3 seconds while you hit them with your car and skip all their dialogue. Unless you just make them cutscene invincible which really seems to undermine the whole point. GTA doesn't have any of the systems that made the nemesis system work.
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Mar 26, 2017 00:26
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Zore posted:GTA doesn't have any of the systems that made the nemesis system work. Yes it does. It has enemies, you have weapons, they have weapons, and dialogue is possible. You don't need to make them cutscene invincible because interrupting them is a cool thing to be able to do. Every single game would be made better by a Nemesis System. Yes, even Guitar Hero or Rock Band.
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Mar 26, 2017 00:31
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As fun as it is to think of all the things that would be improved by the Nemesis system, a lot of them just wouldn't support it without fundamentally changing what those games are. You could make a Batman game that is (ironically) just a reskinned SoM. You might be able to pull off a few other properties, but they'd basically need to be SoM/SoW reskins rather than the games you know and love with the systems attached.
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Mar 26, 2017 00:36
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Yes it does. It has enemies, you have weapons, they have weapons, and dialogue is possible. You don't need to make them cutscene invincible because interrupting them is a cool thing to be able to do. Every single game would be made better by a Nemesis System. Yes, even Guitar Hero or Rock Band. My point is how the gently caress would you ever remember a GTA enemy? Unless they radically overhaul the way their games have worked for the last 15 years, enemies are passive and generic and combat is janky and usually over in seconds. Oh look this dude attacking you has a bandana... and he's dead along with 5 of his friends because you hit them with your car. He shows up 5 minutes later during a mission and dies instantly when you shoot a rocket launcher at the group of enemies he spawned in. Like who would even notice? You'd need to overhaul just about everything about GTA to work it in. The Nemesis system works because of the extreme focus on individual orcs, the variance in their abilities and the fact that the vast majority of game missions boild down to killing or branding them. Literally none of that applies to GTA. Zore fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 00:37
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