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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Are you gonna share why or ? Basically there are two big sets of intel in the game. One describes the origin and concept of the machine plan, and one describes the origin and concept of the android plan. The long and the short of it is that the machines realized that they were going to crush the android and then have no purpose and stop evolving. So they intentionally branched out their evolution into exploring things other than warfare to slow their victory. Completely seperate from that, androids were suffing huge morale problems from humans being extinct, so they created project YorHa, basically as a propaganda stopgap to bolster android morale and create the impression that humans were still alive on the moon. Once YorHa was complete, data from YorHa would be used to make the next model of androids to continue the war. No where in any of this does it say that the machines made YorHa. But some people have conflated the archives and confused "the machines realized they needed an enemy to fight" with "the machines created YorHa so that they would have an enemy to fight". It's a confusing narrative, so I don't think anyone's dumb for mixing poo poo up. There's lot of it that I'm still learning. But as far as I can tell, there is zero evidence that YorHa was created by machines.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:20
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Snak posted:Lol at not saving for 3 hours in a game with no autosaves. It's kind of incredible it took over 37 hours to bite him
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Mar 27, 2017 04:21
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Like, I was bit by the same thing. I lost like, 10 minutes. Which was annoying. But also my fault. And yeah, I save after every transaction and quest completion.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:24
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Snak posted:Lol at not saving for 3 hours in a game with no autosaves. RoadCrewWorker posted:The best part is how he says he did a ton of buying selling and fusing which basically means he was constantly standing a dozen feet from a save station and most definitely inside the save-able radius. Most likely even only a couple of steps away from the tutorial NPC that explicitly tells you three times that the game has no auto save. I'm right here guys. Anyway that's my point. It didn't bite me for 37 hours, until it bit me and that sucked. That's why I braved the goon ridicule squad in order to make sure it didn't happen to another goon at least.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:26
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redreader posted:I'm right here guys. No, I sympathize. I'm not calling you dumb. It sucks. I'm a little more laughing that you're giving a warning to other players to save, when the game gives like 3 warnings, and there probably countless other warnings in the thread. I'm sorry you lost progress, especially super tedious inventory progress  This game's vendor menus are seriously bad.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:28
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It's really stupid not to have an autosave slot, regardless.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:37
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Snak posted:No, I sympathize. I'm not calling you dumb. It sucks. I'm a little more laughing that you're giving a warning to other players to save, when the game gives like 3 warnings, and there probably countless other warnings in the thread. Thanks. Yeah, I got far enough to think "this non autosaving thing literally doesn't matter" until this thing I just posted about, happened.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:38
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Tae posted:It's really stupid not to have an autosave slot, regardless. Not having autosave can save your butt if you lose chips. Like, if you fail to reclaim your corpse, you can just load your game. Because there's no autosave.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:38
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Durante is now working on the PC version. I might double dip on the PC version if he can pull off some miracles.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:40
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How do I get the version of Emil's shop where he sells weapons? I've heard about stopping him near the Resistance camp, but all he sells when I do that are +6 chips that are stupidly heavy.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:43
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Paracelsus posted:How do I get the version of Emil's shop where he sells weapons? I've heard about stopping him near the Resistance camp, but all he sells when I do that are +6 chips that are stupidly heavy. I haven't figured out the exact method, but talk to him a couple of times, leave the city zone and come back, and eventually he should be near the Resistance Camp. You have to be careful because if you shoot him he may fly into another "area" where he's not selling the weapons. I take him out on the broken road right next to the camp entrance.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:46
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Paracelsus posted:How do I get the version of Emil's shop where he sells weapons? I've heard about stopping him near the Resistance camp, but all he sells when I do that are +6 chips that are stupidly heavy. Pick a god and pray
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Mar 27, 2017 04:48
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Snak posted:Not having autosave can save your butt if you lose chips. Like, if you fail to reclaim your corpse, you can just load your game. Because there's no autosave. I mean, they could have put autosave in a different slot and still let you manually save. But Yoko Taro is a spiteful man.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:51
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I really don't care. The save system is really generous. And, while I totally believe it's just to spite players, it's also thematically relevant in a game that's all about saving data as the motivation for like, every character. edit: If there's one thing I'm really disappointed with in this game, it's the scaling. I kind of have to disagree with what people, including me, have been saying about going back to do sidequests later. Sure, you can, but it won't be any fun, because most of the enemies don't scale. I'm level 60+, and most of the side quests I'm going back to do the enemies literally can't hurt. I even turned the difficulty up to hard, but with level ~20 enemies, there's no challenge. It would have been more fun to do these early quests back when I was the right level for them. Snak fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 05:02
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I mean, it's a style decision, and I don't think it really hurts the game. You're hitting save terminals all the time anyway, either because you're fast travelling or discovering a new area, and saving in this game is so fast anyway.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:08
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Snak posted:I really don't care. The save system is really generous. And, while I totally believe it's just to spite players, it's also thematically relevant in a game that's all about saving data as the motivation for like, every character. Good thing Speed Star doesn't give a gently caress about your levels. 
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Mar 27, 2017 05:09
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I remember my game actually crashed once and I lost ten minutes of progress and was super pissed e: this was on PS4, a crash on PC sounds commonplace from what I've been hearing but a PS4 crash is a little bigger deal
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Mar 27, 2017 05:23
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I'm curious, did anyone have any boss fights that they got really into/rate highly? I can't really think of any super memorable fights.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:24
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Cymbal Monkey posted:I'm curious, did anyone have any boss fights that they got really into/rate highly? I can't really think of any super memorable fights. I don't know why, but Hegel really stuck in my mind. I enjoyed the constant, frantic dodging and the switch between ground and air-based gameplay, and it's also got a really nice soundtrack. The tandem battle in the Tower was also highly memorable.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:27
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Cymbal Monkey posted:I'm curious, did anyone have any boss fights that they got really into/rate highly? I can't really think of any super memorable fights. I really enjoyed the fight against Adam. The one where 9S is a hostage.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:27
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Cymbal Monkey posted:I'm curious, did anyone have any boss fights that they got really into/rate highly? I can't really think of any super memorable fights. I'm replaying the game on hard mode now and the Adam fight in the desert was pretty fun. I'm really looking forward to the second rematch in the white city, I think the way these games always work is that fighting massive enemies are fun as setpieces but fighting other humanoid enemies is always the height of technical skill requirement
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Mar 27, 2017 05:28
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bewilderment posted:So uh I don't think I'm bad at games but is it semi-normal for the tutorial to have eaten most of the small recoveries it gives you if I'm playing on normal? A few things worth noting: 1. The red eye flash thing mentioned before. Every enemy in the game will telegraph its attacks with a bright red flash of light and a distinctive sound. This kind of telegraphing is a Platinum staple, and learning to recognize it really helps you keep track of threats in combat and know when it's time to switch from attacking to defending. It's especially useful for dodging attacks that are coming from offscreen, though as a rule enemies in these games prefer not to attack you when they're not actually on the screen (which is something you can take advantage of yourself). 2. Always be dodging. The only opportunity cost to dodging is that you're not attacking, and a very very small window at the very end of a dodge where you don't have iframes and aren't quite ready to initiate another (but seriously the dodge is almost entirely iframes). You can chain dodges infinitely and dodging through an attack with your iframes will set up a perfect dodge that can be used to launch into a counter-attack or just keep dodging; you can link perfect dodges together forever so long as you keep dodging something, which is important for avoiding large stuff like the grinder wheel minibosses in the prologue. Dodging straight through attacks is going to get you a lot further than trying to run away from them, so don't be afraid to just start jamming that dodge button any time you feel vaguely threatened by anything. 3. Always be shooting. There is absolutely no incentive not to just hold down the fire button 100% of the time. Consider swapping your controls around a bit to put the fire button on your left hand and free up a finger on your right hand if you ever want to graduate to weird crab grip shenanigans to try aiming and attacking at the same time. (Multi-tasking to that level is basically impossible but reaching over to make occasional small adjustments without repositioning your thumb is occasionally useful even if you're a mortal.) There's no need to be conservative and the bullet patterns are infinitely easier to deal with when you eliminate the shoot-able ones. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 05:37
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Also, I've seen a lot of people complain about the combat system recently, and I'm not gonna try and they're wrong, but I think it's more of a case where you get out what you put in. My first playthrough I basically used SmallSword LightAttack LargeSword HeavyAttack the whole game and used the exact same combos all the time, and I ended up beating the game without ever really exploring much farther than that. Once I decided to branch out into other weapon types and started experimenting with combos more I found out I was able to pull off some crazy poo poo and was having way more fun with the game. Just an example, for people who think the combat system is weak, did you know that you can knock enemies into the air with a jumping heavy attack? Did you know you can chain jumping air attacks with the short sword finisher to knock enemies into the air twice? Have you tried switching weapon sets mid-combo, because you'll keep the combo going wherever you left off and it gives you the ability to use slow, heavy moves after building up stun with your faster weapons. Games like DMC and Bayonetta constantly give you a rating mid-fight which sort of keys you into the fact that there might be some more creative, complex maneuvers you're not really utilizing, and while this game doesn't have one, I don't think the core idea is that much different. If all you did was push the square button in DMC, you'd probably think the combat system was really boring and shallow too.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:45
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Cymbal Monkey posted:I'm curious, did anyone have any boss fights that they got really into/rate highly? I can't really think of any super memorable fights. Opera bot Adam fights (minus the mothership one) Tandem Battle at the Tower 9S v 2B Genuine flaw of the game in my opinion is that at the end of route A/B and into C all the bosses basically just become those stupid ball things. Like literally all of them that come to mind are either balls or androids..
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Mar 27, 2017 05:47
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Huh... Hacking (End Game Spoilers) A2 multiple times when you fight her as 9S is a heck of a thing I missed. I wish they hid more weird crazy poo poo like that when you hacked enemies beyond the scripted points. VV He hacked Eve during that boss battle and got infected by him. That's it really. Kinda wish they went somewhere with Eve sporting Drakengard Cult of the Watchers tats when going crazy but oh well. The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 05:50
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Is there any meaning behind The weird crap growing on 9S at the end of A+B, along with the metal around him starting to magnetize towards him? Neither of those things are present in the scene before the C/D/E ending when he's also corrupted.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:50
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Opera bot Agreed. So, in Ch. 02-02: Traveling to the Desert, it says that I have 2/3 shared quests, and 0/1 2B quests. But I can't find any. What am I missing?
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Mar 27, 2017 05:52
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Snak posted:Agreed. Probably wanna go back to the Bunker. The Commander has a sidequest that only has a brief window.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:54
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The Dark Id posted:Probably wanna go back to the Bunker. The Commander has a sidequest that only has a brief window. Oh yeah. I never go back to the bunker. Thanks. edit: Wait, how? In that chapter, fast travel isn't unlocked yet... edit2: oh, email... Snak fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 05:55
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Snak posted:Oh yeah. I never go back to the bunker. Thanks. You can fast travel between the Bunker and the Resistance Camp. It's the only fast travel that's available prior to it becoming available everywhere.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:57
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Lost Equipment is impossible. Or it's not a quest. It puts a ??? marker on my map for like 10 seconds and then it vanishes. I'm mostly just worried that I broke it. Because I've gone there and picked up my equipment before. But the fact that it's still putting the marker on my map makes me think I messed something up.
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Mar 27, 2017 06:09
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its removing the marker because you already got it
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Mar 27, 2017 06:12
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lets hang out posted:its removing the marker because you already got it That makes sense. It's just kind of wonky because it's a weird one of a kind non-quest objective. I haven't seen that happen with anything else.
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Mar 27, 2017 06:13
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Is there any meaning behind The weird crap growing on 9S at the end of A+B, along with the metal around him starting to magnetize towards him? Neither of those things are present in the scene before the C/D/E ending when he's also corrupted. The machine virus gives you gravity based superpowers. The stage play of all things explains it but the game itself glosses over it
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Mar 27, 2017 06:33
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Nina posted:The machine virus gives you gravity based superpowers. The stage play of all things explains it but the game itself glosses over it Honestly I just thought it was like, his skin peeling to reveal his robot parts and it was just part of the virus taking over or something.
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Mar 27, 2017 06:36
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Just finished my second round of Route B. Some things are more clear, and some new questions come up when you already know the results. This post is not about those (still trying to put together all my thoughts on this game.) Route B: I know it's mostly a result of having already upgraded a lot of your stuff, knowing what to expect, and that in gameplay 2B can't be kicking rear end all over the place on Route B because that would take away from the player's enjoyment. But it seemed like 2B was totally useless in both my Route B runs, like literally standing around doing nothing in the middle of fights. It feels like Route B is 9S's memories of the events and he's remembering himself as being the awesome hero. I got the impression that the corpses you leave that others might encounter are based on level/chips installed. So when I'm done doing stuff can I just run around to particularly difficult areas and leave an exquisite corpse that will give other people a bunch of money and buffs? Route E: Thank god this wasn't Kickstared. Can you imagine dealing with all the backers?
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Mar 27, 2017 07:00
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SHISHKABOB posted:Because the game never says it's true. All the archive info about the Yorha program is about android Command setting it up. Which is why I take the stance that it's entirely possible that the "android command" figures are the same as the machine ones by this point We know the council of humanity doesn't exist, whether or not the backup data of human DNA and such on the moon exists is up for debate since Devola and Popola's memories were supposedly erased not long after the first game and the machines consumed the project gestalt data. Ultimately, however, the idea that an already losing android command would just let everything just get killed every so often because gently caress it why not just seems mind boggling and I find it a lot easier to accept if it was all just some shadow puppet ruse by the machines the whole time rather than the dumbest military organization ever.
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Mar 27, 2017 07:07
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Endgame thoughts: Pascal's Village, the Amusement Park, the Desert Housing(*), the Forest Kingdom, and the Factory Cult were all experiments by the machines to develop meaning for themselves, based off what they had learned of humanity (Small community, Amusement, Urban community(*), Politics, Religion.) They were designed for combat, and have been trying to evolve for millenia through that one thing they know, but have realized that without a real foe they need to evolve something else besides combat to have purpose and meaning. They are trying to find meaning in a meaningless world and using the data they have collected from humanity as a template. Thus all the philosphers' names and themes. I feel like this is a direct statement on why humanity itself devised these things. We're all stuck on this planet together and need something to give us meaning and purpose. (*) - I'm not sure about the Desert Housing/Urban community thing.
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Mar 27, 2017 07:19
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I just really disdain the idea of turning the narrative about a tragic war where both sides destroy each other for nothing and desperately cling onto hollow concepts to justify their existence into Metal Gearish "Ho ho it was the evil AI mastermind and you all were played." Taro is a better writer than that
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Mar 27, 2017 07:21
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Nuebot posted:Which is why I take the stance that it's entirely possible that the "android command" figures are the same as the machine ones by this point We know the council of humanity doesn't exist, whether or not the backup data of human DNA and such on the moon exists is up for debate since Devola and Popola's memories were supposedly erased not long after the first game and the machines consumed the project gestalt data. Ultimately, however, the idea that an already losing android command would just let everything just get killed every so often because gently caress it why not just seems mind boggling and I find it a lot easier to accept if it was all just some shadow puppet ruse by the machines the whole time rather than the dumbest military organization ever. I don't think that the androids have set up multiple YorHa like organizations designed to fail. I really think that it was the first and only of it's kind, a new development done in order to set up and secure the moon-human deception. They also use the combat data for the next gen of androids but I don't think that's unique to yorha, or that it requires destroying the previous generations as opposed to them sticking around and getting worn down through attrition (ie. most Resistance members). They specifically call out YorHa's dispensable role as being unethical to use regular android AI, which implies that other Android generations are not disposable in the same way.
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Mar 27, 2017 07:30
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