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Hixson posted:I used to dislike GW too. It's different now; GW has changed alot in the last year, and is doing really really cool stuff. To say otherwise you're either stupid or willfully ignorant why are 10 space marines £25 edit:  wait five assault marines are £25 how is GW still in business
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Mar 29, 2017 15:55
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NTRabbit posted:He gazed up at the enormous logo. Fourteen years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark storefront. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Games Workshop Can you not admit that what they have done in the last year is at least 'better' than the previous five or so? I think that's all we are saying here. GW still has problems but they are improving.
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Mar 29, 2017 15:55
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spectralent posted:why are 10 space marines Swap to buying resin, then wait for the sweet sweet tumble of the GBP to make it oh so affordable. Thanks Brexit! 
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Mar 29, 2017 15:56
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panascope posted:The Star Wars prequels are so insanely good that nerds have been absolutely obsessed with them for two decades. Yeah, if you guys don't get fired up about trade negotiations, you obviously don't really get what people liked about the Rogue Trader RPG. Pretty key part of the setting.
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Mar 29, 2017 15:56
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TKIY posted:Can you not admit that what they have done in the last year is at least 'better' than the previous five or so? 
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Mar 29, 2017 15:58
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TKIY posted:Can you not admit that what they have done in the last year is at least 'better' than the previous five or so? I mean, yeah, they're better, in that having a "start collecting" box is better than not having any entry point or that having a PR stream that's constantly full of jokes at the fandom's expense is better than remaining totally silent and firing plastic into the void every three weeks, but the lines as a whole are still massively overpriced and overdetailed and we're still in a state of genuine wonder, again, whether or not several armies are even going to exist next year when the current 40k metaplot is finished, which is insane given that exact thing just happened to Warhammer and was widely considered a Bad Move.
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Mar 29, 2017 15:59
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Someone in another thread posted about the difference between religions and cults. Religions tell you that you are the Profane and that you need to go through the relevant rituals in order to reach the Sacred, whatever that might be. Cults are the opposite - by joining the cult, you are the Sacred, and you must protect yourself from the Profane (aka the unwashed masses) who will try to tell you constantly that what you are doing is wrong, you are being scammed or lied to etc. You will be told that you became Sacred just by joining the cult, and will be praised by your peers for your choice. However if you do not achieve the same enlightenment or success as the cult leader (and you will be shown how successful they are) then it must be due to some failing on your part, not the cults, and the only solution is to double down harder within the cult and block out the profane members of society who are trying to poison your views. I feel like there are some parallels here
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Mar 29, 2017 15:59
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spectralent posted:I mean, yeah, they're better, in that having a "start collecting" box is better than not having any entry point or that having a PR stream that's constantly full of jokes at the fandom's expense is better than remaining totally silent and firing plastic into the void every three weeks, but the lines as a whole are still massively overpriced and overdetailed and we're still in a state of genuine wonder, again, whether or not several armies are even going to exist next year when the current 40k metaplot is finished, which is insane given that exact thing just happened to Warhammer and was widely considered a Bad Move. Also all of this
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Mar 29, 2017 15:59
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I always viewed this as more of the "angry thread" than death thread. I enjoy reading this thread so don't close it.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:01
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spectralent posted:I mean, yeah, they're better, in that having a "start collecting" box is better than not having any entry point or that having a PR stream that's constantly full of jokes at the fandom's expense is better than remaining totally silent and firing plastic into the void every three weeks, but the lines as a whole are still massively overpriced and overdetailed and we're still in a state of genuine wonder, again, whether or not several armies are even going to exist next year when the current 40k metaplot is finished, which is insane given that exact thing just happened to Warhammer and was widely considered a Bad Move. They've apparently learnt a lesson from AoS. If 8th Ed is going to be similar to the Not-necromunda game they're putting out atm then it'll be a great step forward. They're importing the (few) good parts of AoS and pulling some of the better bits of 2nd edition (armour modifiers, movement) back in too. I don't like the prices or the new aesthetic (Guilliman is loving HORRENDOUS) but the rules and community engagement is working well I think. 
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Mar 29, 2017 16:02
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The Skeleton King posted:I always viewed this as more of the "angry thread" than death thread. I enjoy reading this thread so don't close it. Yeah why close it when the impending Age of the Emperor disaster is months, maybe only weeks away? Unless they actually want to see endless pages of mockery in the bad thread when it happens.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:02
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You're already posting in the bad thread tho
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Mar 29, 2017 16:06
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TTerrible posted:They've apparently learnt a lesson from AoS. If 8th Ed is going to be similar to the Not-necromunda game they're putting out atm then it'll be a great step forward. They're importing the (few) good parts of AoS and pulling some of the better bits of 2nd edition (armour modifiers, movement) back in too. The rules still seem to be a mix solely of "cargo cult our own heavily dated game design to traffic in nostalgia" and "make horrendous errors by trying to innovate through ignorance". Game design has advanced leaps and bounds since "the better bits of 2nd edition" and they could have gotten the "good parts" of AOS plus a bunch of other good stuff by just paying some attention to the state of the art in the broader field. Not even looking at their competitors; reading some articles about board game design, RPG design, or just Making Magic would do their rules people worlds of good. GW certainly seems to be moving in the right direction, but they've got a long way to go before I'll be willing to say they're making actual good games, as opposed to just benefiting from the fact that they're by far the most established company in an industry that heavily rewards customer inertia in several ways.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:08
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https://regimental-standard.com/ This is proof that GW is turning in a good direction. This level of fun would have been unimaginable a few years ago. All Hail Saint Duncan. 
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Mar 29, 2017 16:08
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TKIY posted:Can you not admit that what they have done in the last year is at least 'better' than the previous five or so? We should always be critical, as consumers, of our corporate overlords. We laugh at the really stupid stuff in the MTG thread and x-wing thread all the time, why is it considered heresy in the warhams threads? e: I love the new MTG insert parallels they had for the latest set, but everyone else is overly negative about it. It is good they speak out, as graphic design-wise it is terrible and I have terrible taste. But I love it. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 16:08
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I realize you're just trolling, but this sentiment is one voiced all too often by GW's core fan-base. It's the mistaken idea that the game's not still a hot loving mess. I think the Belisarius Cawl mini is loving bad-rear end. I actually like the new Kairos Fateweaver mini. But the idea of actually playing a game of 40K is just dreadfully painful. It's an exercise in unfulfilling, time-consuming futility. And the worst part is that if you've never played anything other than 40K, you have no idea just how much of an awful, soul-crushing chore the game actually is. Don't get me wrong - I've been playing 40K since the heady days of Rogue Trader, where my first army was Eldar mercenaries with uncontrolled Genestealers deployed from a tunneling crawler. I first started collecting and painting Imperial Guard under 2nd Edition and Necrons under 5th. Thank the gods that I avoided the temptation to get into Sisters under 4th. I've played a lot of 40K over the years, up through and including 7th Edition. I did so largely because in terms of mini games it was "the thing to do." Then I slowly came to the realization that I didn't really enjoy the game. Sure, hanging out with friends and shooting the poo poo was cool. And some of the minis were awesome (I absolutely love the aesthetics of Necron vehicles, for instance). But the actual game itself actively got in the way of all of the other enjoyable bits. Then I started reading and playing other games. Newer games. Games that didn't have three decades of cruft and sacred cows and lovely Codex authors pushing their own lovely agendas. And I realized that these other games were actually fun. And balanced. And interesting. They had novel mechanics and meaningful tactical decisions. And the companies that put them out actually gave a poo poo about their customers. And some of them had minis that were just plain better than Citadel's latest T-posed, extraneously-detailed, busy-as-gently caress plastic mans. I have no doubt that 8th Edition 40K will be more streamlined than 7th. You might even be able to say that it will be a "better" game. But "better than 7th Ed" is a pretty loving low bar, and getting GW fanboys to realize why jaded veterans don't share their optimism (especially when we've been disappointed so many times in the past) is harder than it needs to be. 8th Edition would have to be virtually unrecognizable as a Warhammer game for me to actually want to play it again, and the odds of it being so are virtually nil.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:08
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Ilor posted:I realize you're just trolling, but this sentiment is one voiced all too often by GW's core fan-base. It's the mistaken idea that the game's not still a hot loving mess. I think the Belisarius Cawl mini is loving bad-rear end. I actually like the new Kairos Fateweaver mini. But the idea of actually playing a game of 40K is just dreadfully painful. It's an exercise in unfulfilling, time-consuming futility. And the worst part is that if you've never played anything other than 40K, you have no idea just how much of an awful, soul-crushing chore the game actually is. 
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Mar 29, 2017 16:09
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Ilor posted:I realize you're just trolling What are you trying to say.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:10
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MikeCrotch posted:Someone in another thread posted about the difference between religions and cults. Religions tell you that you are the Profane and that you need to go through the relevant rituals in order to reach the Sacred, whatever that might be.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:12
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I still am absolutely, completely baffled and amazed when I find people both on here and in the wild who think AoS is good. Like, I literally cannot fathom how you come to that conclusion, AoS is just so obviously and objectively bad as a game based on all the outstanding evidence I cannot see how there is any defence of it other than giant flaming letters spelling out SUNK COST FALLACY or a complete inability to distinguish between good and bad things. I get it if AoS is the only game in town and you just want to play with plastic barbies, or if you like the aesthetics of the models (even though I disagree) despite the cost. Cool. People can like different games. But people who straight up say "AoS is a good game and GW is a good company now" makes me feel like i'm talking to a pod person from Invasion of the Body Snatchers or something.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:12
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Lord_Hambrose posted:https://regimental-standard.com/ Yeah, this is great. I wasn't around (GW, but even simply not existing) back then, so I don't know if it's the same thing, but is this how GW used to be when it was more satirical? They're pushing it too hard and obvious sometimes, but the only thing I remember approaching this level of satire is the Infantryman's Handbook I have.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:13
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MikeCrotch posted:I still am absolutely, completely baffled and amazed when I find people both on here and in the wild who think AoS is good. Like, I literally cannot fathom how you come to that conclusion, AoS is just so obviously and objectively bad as a game based on all the outstanding evidence I cannot see how there is any defence of it other than giant flaming letters spelling out SUNK COST FALLACY or a complete inability to distinguish between good and bad things. AoS is a horrendous abortion of a ruleset. Agreed. EDIT: The one "good bit" of AoS I mentioned earlier was giving large creatures something like 10 wounds and they lose effectivenes as the wounds are lost. That's it.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:13
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MikeCrotch posted:I still am absolutely, completely baffled and amazed when I find people both on here and in the wild who think AoS is good. Like, I literally cannot fathom how you come to that conclusion, AoS is just so obviously and objectively bad as a game based on all the outstanding evidence I cannot see how there is any defence of it other than giant flaming letters spelling out SUNK COST FALLACY or a complete inability to distinguish between good and bad things. Lots of people confuse fun with their friends for fun with the game, friend.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:15
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Indolent Bastard posted:So you want us back in the main thread? You are asking us to bring our annoyance, complaints, and criticisms to the "good" thread. But, this is the hug box.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:18
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ijyt posted:But, this is the hug box.  they don't realize that
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Mar 29, 2017 16:21
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NTRabbit posted:In other news, we've done a full 180, as GW now cribs Mantic, releasing their new not-Deadzone game with a display board based on one made for actual Deadzone by a player. TIL Mantic the purveyor of low quality plastic "sculpts" invented Necromunda and oil rigs.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:22
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Chill la Chill posted:So how about them Gundams? Why would you buy models that can't also be used for games, it seems like a waste of money.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:23
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GW's improvement is a little bit like how you can feel some hope for an alcoholic who is "seriously cutting back" on the booze. You still don't go out for drinks with the guy and you can't be such a fool as to believe there can't be a relapse, and really it's still obvious there isn't going to be a real change until the guy goes to rehab and gets totally clean. But hey, they've sort of half-assedly accepted there might be a problem.... so, progress!
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Mar 29, 2017 16:22
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 People here should chill with the wednesday frog on this wednesday
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Mar 29, 2017 16:23
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It turns out Games Workshop was always pretty good.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:25
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AoS is a bad game that recently got better, and there are signs it will get better with Generals Handbook 2. GW is a bad company that recently got better, and there are signs that their flagship game will get better with v8. Old Necromunda was good, new Necromunda looks good. Some new GW models are good, some are not, most are overpriced but not unreasonable. These are all thoughts that my human meatbrain holds simultaneously.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:36
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I think once you see the quality and detail of your typical GW box compared to trash like Malifaux that the price difference becomes understandable. You pay for the quality.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:38
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Leperflesh posted:GW's improvement is a little bit like how you can feel some hope for an alcoholic who is "seriously cutting back" on the booze. You still don't go out for drinks with the guy and you can't be such a fool as to believe there can't be a relapse, and really it's still obvious there isn't going to be a real change until the guy goes to rehab and gets totally clean. But hey, they've sort of half-assedly accepted there might be a problem.... so, progress! Don't forget the domestic abuse.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:38
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Leperflesh posted:GW's improvement is a little bit like how you can feel some hope for an alcoholic who is "seriously cutting back" on the booze. You still don't go out for drinks with the guy and you can't be such a fool as to believe there can't be a relapse, and really it's still obvious there isn't going to be a real change until the guy goes to rehab and gets totally clean. But hey, they've sort of half-assedly accepted there might be a problem.... so, progress! I'm pretty sure someone mentioned earlier something about addict language so... Like, I get it. GW is on a better path than they were, in some degrees. Bringing back specialist games, cool. Actual community relations and PR, nice. Some models that look nice, even if there are a lot that don't. Promoting smaller scale games as opposed to the cynical cash grab of Apocalypse is welcome. But. GW's new path only works if you are already invested in GW as a company. If you are a new player or group looking at games in a vacuum, odds are you're gonna take one look at GWs pricing and moonwalk the gently caress away in favour of something cheaper, which at this time is literally any other miniatures game. And as for the specialist/skirmish games, well you already have communities for those now since GW gave up that territory for 15+ years. Anyone wanting to play the new Necromunda is going to be either recruiting from existing GW players or facing an uphill struggle against Infinity, Malifaux or whatever. Not to mention that it looks like GW is going to be competing against those games with a straight up 20+ year old ruleset. The saddest goddamn thing is that I guarantee there will be people who jump ship from Infinity or something else to GW again, and cause existing playerbases to crumble. If that's what your group wants to do and everyone is ok, that's great, but i've been on the receiving end of similar things where i've loved a game but lost the playerbase to another game that was worse, but bigger, due to inertia. Doubly so when people refuse to try new things but are obviously miserable playing the status quo.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:49
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MikeCrotch posted:I'm pretty sure someone mentioned earlier something about addict language so... LOL. Wrong.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:57
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Tbh I don't actually care about the minis hobby and just have exposure to GW's IP because GW fans on the internet tended to be about as good at keeping their enthusiasm to themselves as anime fans are.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:02
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Xarbala posted:Tbh I don't actually care about the minis hobby and just have exposure to GW's IP because GW fans on the internet tended to be about as good at keeping their enthusiasm to themselves as anime fans are. Well, if there's one correct post in here in the last couple pages....
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Mar 29, 2017 17:04
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Chill la Chill posted:Well, if there's one correct post in here in the last couple pages.... it's all of mine
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Mar 29, 2017 17:08
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Lmao being angry at a hobby you don't even do. It's like getting mad at Canon for only minimally improving their low-light performance and never having owned a camera.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:07
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ijyt posted:Lmao being angry at a hobby you don't even do. It's like getting mad at Canon for only minimally improving their low-light performance and never having owned a camera.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:09
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