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kaworu posted:Hey guys, so, I was just watching Spectre of the Gun for the first time and.... Yeah, Specter of the Gun is amazing. I think it tends to get overlooked because people think of it as "Cowboy Planet" and lump it in with the various "parallel worlds" episodes that mostly aren't very good. Really it plays more like a deconstruction of those episodes than a true example. The "Tombstone" they're in is obviously fake from the getgo, but it doesn't matter because they're still in mortal danger. Also, the godlike aliens are pretty familiar, but I think they work well here. I'd say Spectre and The Enterprise Incident are the best third season episodes. A lot of people like Tholian Web, but as great as the Tholians are, I found the actual plot to be rather convoluted and technobabbly and the whole "ghost Kirk" storyline doesn't quite work because of course they didn't kill off the main character.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:38
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vermin posted:Watching TOS. They are now on the planet of the cowboys.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:40
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Anyone have some cool Enterprise-D concept or re-fit images? Not including the All Good Things Enterprise, of course.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:46
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Powered Descent posted:Peter David is the author of some of the better Star Trek novels. It seems he's run into a bit of trouble with the IRS and is now trying to crowd-source a bunch of money. I sent him $5 just because he uses an AOL address for paypal.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:55
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I am incredibly stoked to hear Rainn Wilson is going to be HAAAAAAAAAAAAAARCOURT FENTON MUDD!!! This is actually better than the rumored casting of Jack Black as Mudd in the last JJ Trek movie. I think Rainn is a more subtle comedic actor and would do even better than Black. This is actually the first time I've been looking forward to ST:D, though it seems to put to rest any theory that this is taking place 20 years before TOS and not 10. So look forward to 25 year old Spock I guess. :/
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Apr 1, 2017 02:49
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The Fuzzy Hulk posted:
No, it's a good direction to take, now second star to the right and straight on till morning. 
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Apr 1, 2017 04:11
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Nessus posted:It would make total sense for the Romulans to build a ship or two that could do what you're describing. It would not make sense to build your entire naval strategy around it. Eventually people would start wising up - "Hm, that's weird, this is the sixth mysteriously abandoned freighter/science ship that's had logs strongly suggesting malfeasance from a local group who are in negotiations with the Romulan Star Empire. Probably a coincidence." 
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Apr 1, 2017 04:19
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Brawnfire posted:Actually it's pretty crazy how much of an impact that tiny touch has. It makes the ship feel more like a ship, and also more human. Do any other Star Trek vessels have that feature? I think that most if not all of the DS9/Voyager era ships do, but I'm not sure how easy they are to see in the episodes themselves. I do like how in Armada II (and possibly the first, I've never played it) all the Fed ships have red and green navigation lights, but they're all on the wrong side.
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Apr 1, 2017 05:20
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Birthright: Part 1 Even if the Sisko has started to get over his wife's death, I'm pretty sure he still doesn't want to see Picard. Also, need more information about what kind of "protein bath" Beverly would get in one of Quark's holosuits.
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Apr 1, 2017 05:23
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:I do like how in Armada II (and possibly the first, I've never played it) all the Fed ships have red and green navigation lights, but they're all on the wrong side. Probably mirrored the whole game like Twilight Princess at some point in development.
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Apr 1, 2017 05:35
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Oh. Yes. Trip report: DS9 season 1, episode 9 "Move Along Home." Someone please tell me it only gets better from here. How did these shows survive? I realize television has always been mostly a wasteland, but were we that desperate?
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Apr 1, 2017 05:43
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Oh. Yes. You have no honor.
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Apr 1, 2017 05:46
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Oh. Yes. Move Along Home is not the worst episode in the series but it's one of the worst. If you made it through TNG, though, then Move Along Home shouldn't bother you that much. There are probably a dozen episodes of TNG that are worse. It does get a lot better. Season 1 is without a doubt the worst season and Move Along Home is the worst episode of season 1.
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Apr 1, 2017 06:10
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Pakled posted:Move Along Home is not the worst episode in the series but it's one of the worst. If you made it through TNG, though, then Move Along Home shouldn't bother you that much. There are probably a dozen episodes of TNG that are worse. The worst is probably Profit and Lace
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Apr 1, 2017 06:21
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Oh. Yes. Lightning Lord posted:The worst is probably Profit and Lace
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Apr 1, 2017 06:28
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Move Along Home is DS9's early installment weirdness in one 44-minute dose. I mean, there's some bland filler poo poo in seasons 1 and 2, but nothing quite as tonally odd as that one particular episode. It legitimately gets much better starting in season 2 and IMO peaks in season 5, and more or less holds it from there on. The final arc is drat good television, even through some of the relatively forced plot points. Tangentially, considering how well Ron Moore's crew managed to wrap up DS9, you'd think he would have been able to salvage a decent loving ending for BSG.
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Apr 1, 2017 06:28
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"Move Along Home" is like a weird, misplaced Voyager episode in the same way that "Q-Less" feels like a weird, misplaced TNG episode. I'd definitely put it in my top five worst DS9 episodes, but... I don't know. I don't find it unwatchable or anything, even though a whole lot of it is cringe inducing.
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Apr 1, 2017 06:56
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Move Along Home is a TOS episode starring the DS9 crew. It doesn't quite work, but it's far from the worst episode. That honor goes to either The Storyteller or Time's Orphan.
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Apr 1, 2017 08:04
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Oh. Yes. It gets better. It's not like good shows never have bad episodes. I give shows a lot of leeway in their first seasons since they usually blow their wad on the pilot and spend a ton of time just breaking everything in. But yeah, you do wonder how from Voyager season 5 on how they kept it going. Keeping a franchise going for 15 years is tough, then they have a very rigid vision for it all and by Enterprise they were getting killed in the ratings and they were all  . The target is already small and it shrank with every episode because you can't repeat stuff, but the producers didn't want to take off the parking brake until they were already basically cancelled.
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Apr 1, 2017 08:08
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Brawnfire posted:Actually it's pretty crazy how much of an impact that tiny touch has. It makes the ship feel more like a ship, and also more human. Do any other Star Trek vessels have that feature? I think they added navigation lights to the NCC-1701 model, after it was tidied up a little in TOS' second season? It's definitely in a few 'Enterprise is in space, moving' stock shots, the start of The Tholian Web for example.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:17
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Nessus posted:You know, this runs into the "Birth of a Nation/Triumph of the Will" question. In a TECHNICAL sense, is that episode awful, or is it just that its central premise is revolting? But Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will are both technically groundbreaking films that literally invented dozens of filmmaking techniques that we take for granted today. They're as good as subjects of study as they are revolting in their content (which is a lot). "Move Along Home" and "Profit and Lace" are both just hot garbage in every way.
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Apr 1, 2017 12:29
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Railing Kill posted:But Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will are both technically groundbreaking films that literally invented dozens of filmmaking techniques that we take for granted today. They're as good as subjects of study as they are revolting in their content (which is a lot). "Move Along Home" and "Profit and Lace" are both just hot garbage in every way. You know, I can hate Profit and Lace easily as that thing is a piece of poo poo, but I can't hate Move Along Home. Maybe it's nostalgia, as one of only a handful of DS9 episodes I saw when it first aired. Or the thing that introduced me to the idea of taking big gambles at higher risk to mitigate lots of lower risk attempts. Or the fact it totally felt like a particularly hilarious episode of TOS. It's not good by DS9 standards at all, or really even good in a good-good way, but it's just not offensive or just.. utterly hate-able like other stuff is. It's no loving Threshold. It's just harmless, dorky and kinda ridiculous. Given the whole thing took place in a cross between TRON and a Holodeck, and it became clear that the aliens weren't psychopathic murderers, I just can't find it offensive. It's not exactly an episode I'd just turn on, though and new viewers should know it's regarded as one of the biggest duds of the show. But really, gently caress Profit and Lace. gently caress every minute of it. Anyone watching the show I think would only benefit from blowing past that one. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 13:10
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Oh. Yes. It gets way, way, way better. Here's a quick guide for you: Season 1: Recycled TNG scripts just re-purposed on a space station, some glimmers of what the show will actually be about (Garak, Bajorian stuff, etc) but mostly it's handled clumsily. Season 2: The show begins finding it's own feet and setting up what's to come, way more gets put into the universe and the factions around DS9 get way more interesting. Season 3: This starts in season 2, but poo poo really begins hitting the fan in season 3 on a long build up to what's ultimately coming. Season 4: Really Goddamn good, all the factions are fleshed out, and the whole universe begins really playing all the serialized stuff they built up. Also I think this is the season they fix Worf. Season 5: Even better than 4. Season 6: A casting change and some baffling decisions kind of hold it back, but it has some gems in there and the final 9-shot is really fantastic IMO. I wish more shows did finale pacing that way (outside of the Bajorian stuff which got megarushed). IMO the show is in full gear by Season 3, but it's a steady upward climb until 6, and even 6 has a lot of redeeming stuff. I can't stress enough the show really is heavily serialized even in the stand alone episodes in terms of character and plot progression, and it actually goes full serial at points. It's what sets DS9 above it's rivals for me. Even the side filler episodes offer progression. Just hang in there. Not to say season 1 is a write off by any means, Duet stands out as a particularly strong episode that is far more representative of what the show becomes. PS: Almost all of the characters have really good development and arcs over the years, with a few small exceptions. I never did like Dax all that much. Kira has the best arc IMO. Oh yeah, you'll also see a lot more of Garak, who gets progressively more awesome. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 13:18
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Pakled posted:Move Along Home is not the worst episode in the series but it's one of the worst. If you made it through TNG, though, then Move Along Home shouldn't bother you that much. There are probably a dozen episodes of TNG that are worse. Yeah, I was including TNG in that. B5 as well; I'm not sure how that survived past the pilot movie, and that's my all time favorite show. Maybe I'm still bringing my remembered reactions forward from watching it originally, but I never liked DS9 as much as TNG. Outside of Odo and Quark, and O'Brien, most of the characters aren't that interesting. Dax and Bashir, especially, are like Generic Starfleet Officers 1 and 2, even though they tried doing something different with Dax as a Trill.
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Apr 1, 2017 13:28
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Blazing Ownager posted:. There are 7 seasons?
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Apr 1, 2017 13:37
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Move Along Home I think gave us an early peek into redeeming Quark. It's silly but not bad exactly or against character at all. It's a big universe, silly is out there. Not everything had to be grimdark. It's a low tier ep for sure, but I'd watch it again over storyteller or any of the known bad episodes.
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Apr 1, 2017 13:38
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Powered Descent posted:Peter David is the author of some of the better Star Trek novels. It seems he's run into a bit of trouble with the IRS and is now trying to crowd-source a bunch of money. He should have lied and said he had a bunch of medical bills from his stroke a few years back. I'd donate to that, but not for whoops I decided not to pay taxes for 20 years.
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Apr 1, 2017 13:41
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MorgaineDax posted:He should have lied and said he had a bunch of medical bills from his stroke a few years back. I'd donate to that, but not for whoops I decided not to pay taxes for 20 years. Dude could have made estimated quarterly payments and avoided the whole thing. Q Squared was the first and only Star Trek novel I've ever read.
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Apr 1, 2017 14:29
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Blazing Ownager posted:You know, I can hate Profit and Lace easily as that thing is a piece of poo poo, but I can't hate Move Along Home. I can forgive TOS a lot more easily as a product of its time. And I think I figured out why I like early TNG better than early DS9: in TNG, yeah, they rehashed some TOS stuff, but it felt a lot more on average like they were throwing stuff at the wall trying to see what stuck, whereas in DS9 it's become a firmly established franchise, and they're already doing some of the paint-by-numbers stuff that evolved into the demise of Trek later on. And I appreciate that freshness and ambition even when it fails. I must reiterate, because this is the internet, this is my subjective impression; I'm sure some enterprising fan will no doubt strongly desire to correct me about how DS9 was unshackled compared to the supposed tentpoles of the franchise.
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Apr 1, 2017 14:55
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I must reiterate, because this is the internet, this is my subjective impression; I'm sure some enterprising fan will no doubt strongly desire to correct me about how DS9 was unshackled compared to the supposed tentpoles of the franchise. It definitely had paint-by-numbers episodes that could have literally been on TNG or VOY or ENT by just doing a find/replace for character names in the script. I think for DS9 those were the minority, though, or at least they aren't the reason people are fans of DS9 - generally those are the avoidable bad ones. The big arcs really were something new, and so were major space battles with dozens of ships, although I can see how some would view that as minor over forehead aliens and the filler anomaly of the week episodes being samey. I love TNG myself, maybe even over DS9, both because a full appreciation of DS9 really requires a watch of TNG and also just because TNG was the Trek of my childhood.
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Apr 1, 2017 15:07
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Thought about editing this in, but I'm going to give this thought it's own post: Some of the best episodes (Inner light, Remember Me, Measure of a Man, The Visitor, Far Beyond The Stars, All Good Things, Trials and Tribble-ations, BOBW1, etc) are mold-breakers. The thing is that they are only really good in the context of the normal show. Just showing someone those episodes without the rest would cheat them out of a lot of their power since the context is so important. I think DS9 is the 'that-episode' of Trek in general. It's great as a mold-breaker to contrast with the other series and loses a lot of its power without the context of TOS,TNG,and VOY. It's not a perfect analogy, because DS9 contains a lot of stinkers and so can't be listed with near perfect episodes, but I think the reason it stands out for so many trek fans is similar to why those episodes do.
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Apr 1, 2017 15:18
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I'd watch Move Along Home 10 times before I'd watch The Storyteller. Move Along Home is harmless fun, The Storyteller is tedious.
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Apr 1, 2017 15:37
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The Bloop posted:Thought about editing this in, but I'm going to give this thought it's own post: I can go along with this.
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Apr 1, 2017 15:48
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Tsaedje posted:I'd watch Move Along Home 10 times before I'd watch The Storyteller. Move Along Home is harmless fun, The Storyteller is tedious. Yeah Move Along Home is dumb and bizarre but it's a long way from the worst episode of DS9. The Storyteller? Meridian? Melora? The Muse? (I never see this one come up in discussion so I'm convinced people just block it out of their memories) Any Ferengi episode excepting Magnificent Ferengi and Little Green Men? The one where Jake asks Kira on a date? Honey I Shrunk the Ship? I love DS9 but there's some real clunkers in there, like every Trek, and Move Along Home isn't really one of them.
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Apr 1, 2017 16:30
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skasion posted:Yeah Move Along Home is dumb and bizarre but it's a long way from the worst episode of DS9. The Storyteller? Meridian? Melora? The Muse? (I never see this one come up in discussion so I'm convinced people just block it out of their memories) Any Ferengi episode excepting Magnificent Ferengi and Little Green Men? The one where Jake asks Kira on a date? Honey I Shrunk the Ship? I love DS9 but there's some real clunkers in there, like every Trek, and Move Along Home isn't really one of them. Are you me? I remember watching "The Muse" for the first time some time ago because I somehow missed it when I first watched DS9 and it's definitely one of the worst episodes. Incidentally, I still don't understand how Jake Sisko is supposed to be writing as much as he does even outside that episode. It feels like he ends up writing twenty novels over the course of a few seasons. Is he just pumping out fan fiction quality writing?
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Apr 1, 2017 17:58
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I was about to donate money to PAD's thing but honestly, he hosed up. He could have taken care of this a long time ago. poo poo, when I was audited the IRS settled for 40% of the deliiquent taxes. If he'd been proactive about this any time in the last 20 years he wouldn't have to beg for money.
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Apr 1, 2017 18:03
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You know an episode is bad when the Lwaxana B-plot is the good part.
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Apr 1, 2017 18:07
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You know an episode is going to be awesome when Lwaxana shows up. 
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Apr 1, 2017 18:29
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Kazinsal posted:Move Along Home is DS9's early installment weirdness in one 44-minute dose. I mean, there's some bland filler poo poo in seasons 1 and 2, but nothing quite as tonally odd as that one particular episode. Ron Moore wasn't showrunner on DS9, and I think he may have been the only Trek alumnus on BSG. Also to be fair, it was probably a lot easier to decide on an end-state for DS9 than for BSG.
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Apr 1, 2017 18:36
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I think Behr was DS9 showrunner for most of its run (it was originally Piller, but he left to run VOY instead) and Moore was just in the writers' room.
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Apr 1, 2017 19:22
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