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Fast Luck posted:Only about 20% of North Korea's mountainous terrain is arable land. Much of the land is only frost-free for six months, allowing only one crop per year. The country has never been self-sufficient in food, and many experts considered it unrealistic to try to be.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:36
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Ace of Baes posted:If civilians are starving to death there's s moral obligation to prevent that as much as possible, it's really disturbing that this needs to be said lol Thanks for agreeing that johnny needs to march on pyongyang and put an end to the concentration camps.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:36
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yes, experts agree that when you put communists or whatever the gently caress the Kims are, there is literally zero chance of that country ever being able to feed itself henceforth. It's a really deep mystery as to why that might be, especially when the neighboring country with substantially similar culture, or at least it was at one time, and less arable land, and twice as many people, grows enough to be able to EXPORT food. this is really a head scratcher
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Mar 31, 2017 21:39
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Also, just a reminder, the North has far more natural mineral resources than the South, and that when their current borders took shape, the North was considered to have a more advantageous position economically, and they actually did have a better economy until the late 1970s. Where they started from does not matter anywhere near as much as how the North has made every policy decision based on whether or not it will allow the Kim family to retain the highest level of control over the country. Arguments about American imperialism and sanctions aside, they've pursued a path that has absolutely exacerbated every problem that they have faced, alienated allies that are no friends of the U.S., and put themselves in a position where they're always one external shock away from catastrophy.
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Apr 1, 2017 00:58
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The US Government should prevent north Koreans from starving because they're human beings you sociopathic freaks
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Apr 1, 2017 01:03
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Ace of Baes posted:The US Government should prevent north Koreans from starving because they're human beings you sociopathic freaks agreed america should invade north korea right now
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Apr 1, 2017 01:18
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Fojar38 posted:agreed america should invade north korea right now Or followed the McArthur plan way back when
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Apr 1, 2017 01:29
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Kill em all and let God sort em out
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Apr 1, 2017 01:48
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Fast Luck posted:No this was rock bottom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine man juche sounds like kind of a bad idea you guys
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Apr 1, 2017 01:50
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Kill em all and let God sort em out Kill god and war in the shadow of his corpse, I say.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:56
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This thread has a bunch of good examples of the weird mental block liberals have about discussing international politics with states they've identified as villains. It's strong enough that they basically start hallucinating. This is probably the most clear-cut recent example:Ace of Baes posted:If civilians are starving to death there's s moral obligation to prevent that as much as possible, it's really disturbing that this needs to be said lol gobbagool posted:So the US Government has a moral obligation to see that the citizens of North Korea don't starve, but the North Korean government does not? care to parse that for us, friend? Ace of Baes says 'X' and gobbagool reads 'X and also the government of North Korea has no obligation to feed its people.' The latter half appears literally from nowhere - the liberal has hallucinated it. The first statement might as well have been talking about the weather or tomorrow's ball game, it literally doesn't matter - the liberal's brain has decided it's talking to a 'tankie' and started firing neurons at random.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:08
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Kill em all and let God sort em out Wait godless communist calling for divine intervention because that's the only thing that can save his dumb system? Stop the presses!
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Apr 1, 2017 02:09
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Peel posted:Ace of Baes says 'X' and gobbagool reads 'X and also the government of North Korea has no obligation to feed its people.' The latter half appears literally from nowhere - the liberal has hallucinated it. The first statement might as well have been talking about the weather or tomorrow's ball game, it literally doesn't matter - the liberal's brain has decided it's talking to a 'tankie' and started firing neurons at random. Actually it's a perfectly valid question assuming that you recognize that international sovereignty is a thing. Is the USA responsible for feeding all starving people the world over? If so, why specifically the USA and not other large countries, or better yet, why don't the governments representing said starving people feed their people? If you are going to argue that the USA specifically has a moral obligation to ensure that global suffering is at an absolute and sustainable minimum using any means at their disposal you're one step away from advocating neo-conservative foreign policy, thus completing the horseshoe.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:16
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Peel posted:This thread has a bunch of good examples of the weird mental block liberals have about discussing international politics with states they've identified as villains. It's strong enough that they basically start hallucinating. This is probably the most clear-cut recent example: Does the government of North Korea have any obligation for the well being of its people or not?
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Apr 1, 2017 02:17
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Like it genuinely seems to me that the most clear and obvious way for the United States of America to ensure the end of the suffering of the people of North Korea would be to invade and physically conquer and annex the territory and then distribute free food, medicine, education, etc. If this sounds like imperialism that's because that's exactly what it is.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:18
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Of course the government of NK has a moral obligation to it's people that it's breaking, it's ruled by a fascist military dictator manchild, the US has an obligation because we're the reason the citizens there have such a hosed up country, if you need me to explain why to you please go study what the us did in the Korean war.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:21
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Ace of Baes posted:Of course the government of NK has a moral obligation to it's people that it's breaking, it's ruled by a fascist military dictator manchild, the US has an obligation because we're the reason the citizens there have such a hosed up country, if you need me to explain why to you please go study what the us did in the Korean war. lol wtf is this poo poo
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Apr 1, 2017 02:22
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Fojar38 posted:Like it genuinely seems to me that the most clear and obvious way for the United States of America to ensure the end of the suffering of the people of North Korea would be to invade and physically conquer and annex the territory and then distribute free food, medicine, education, etc. Yeah they would end the suffering of millions of South Koreans as well when nork shells Seoul.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:23
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The Korean War started when the Soviet backed North Korea invaded the South and was pushed back by a multilateral United Nations force
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Apr 1, 2017 02:23
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Ace of Baes posted:Yeah they would end the suffering of millions of South Koreans as well when nork shells Seoul. Hmm, so the US is the aggressor when they don't do anything, and also the aggressor when they intervene
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Apr 1, 2017 02:25
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Ace of Baes posted:Yeah they would end the suffering of millions of South Koreans as well when nork shells Seoul. So you're cheering for the pudgy dictator, nice
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Apr 1, 2017 02:28
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Fojar38 posted:Actually it's a perfectly valid question assuming that you recognize that international sovereignty is a thing. Is the USA responsible for feeding all starving people the world over? If so, why specifically the USA and not other large countries, or better yet, why don't the governments representing said starving people feed their people? But as I said, Ace of Baes actually declared a universal obligation to feed the hungry, so the reading wasn't just hallucinating an extra clause, but directly contradicting what was quoted. The reason this happens is because American foreign policy discourse is hopelessly crippled by moralism. When your thinking about certain countries is totally dominated by banging the drum about how evil they are, anyone discussing them in terms other than condemning their evil becomes suspicious - why aren't they talking about how evil the bad guys are? It can't be because they're thinking about something else, because how evil the bad guys are is the most important thing in the world. They must be on the side of evil, and trying to distract from evil. quote:If you are going to argue that the USA specifically has a moral obligation to ensure that global suffering is at an absolute and sustainable minimum using any means at their disposal you're one step away from advocating neo-conservative foreign policy, thus completing the horseshoe. This doesn't follow at all. Starting wars is a bad way to reduce suffering, and the suffering it causes is a major reason military aggression is bad.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:32
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Ah, okay I guess I didn't give the appropriate amount of respect to the thoughtful and controversial "I think it's bad when people starve" position that was being takenPeel posted:This doesn't follow at all. Starting wars is a bad way to reduce suffering, and the suffering it causes is a major reason military aggression is bad. On the other hand, there are times when fighting is necessary to reduced suffering in the long run and absolute pacifism is a disgustingly privileged moral philosophy. Fojar38 has issued a correction as of 02:43 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 02:39
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The highest fever pitch I've personally seen came about during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It didn't matter how many Russia Bad pieties you loaded your comments with, merely trying to discuss Russian internal politics and perception in ways that didn't immediately produce emotional satisfaction of condemning the villain Russia was seen as facial evidence of being a Putin stooge. North Korea exists permanently at a similar level of perceived monstrosity, if not intensity of discussion. It's this sort of experience that produces surreal threads like this, where nobody involved actually likes the North Korean government, but half the argument consists of accusing people of liking the North Korean government and the other half of ignoring these accusations and trying to talk about something else. Because everyone non-hallucinatory has too much experience talking to hallucinatory liberals to waste their time trudging through the demanded pieties. Moralism poisons all kinds of discourse, but it's at its absolute worst in foreign policy/international relations. They're the #1 source of those worthless arguments we're all familiar with, that consist of people shouting 'X is bad' 'Y is bad' at each other for pages until eventually some far-sighted geniuses roll in and say 'what if... X and Y are bad?' and eventually it peters out with nothing of substance being discussed.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:43
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Peel posted:The highest fever pitch I've personally seen came about during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It didn't matter how many Russia Bad pieties you loaded your comments with, merely trying to discuss Russian internal politics and perception in ways that didn't immediately produce emotional satisfaction of condemning the villain Russia was seen as facial evidence of being a Putin stooge. North Korea exists permanently at a similar level of perceived monstrosity, if not intensity of discussion. i'm sure u had similarly nuanced feelings about the invasion of iraq peel
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Apr 1, 2017 02:46
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It's funny seeing people spout complete falsehoods about Korean history and then smugly act like they should be taken seriously.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:50
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Fiction posted:It's funny seeing people spout complete falsehoods about Korean history and then smugly act like they should be taken seriously. Nobody in this thread knows poo poo about North Korean history, it's filled with revisionists from both sides lol
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Apr 1, 2017 02:54
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Ace of Baes posted:Nobody in this thread knows poo poo about North Korean history, it's filled with revisionists from both sides lol imo you should save up to travel to north korea and learn first hand
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Apr 1, 2017 02:55
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We need to take the uss pueblo back
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Apr 1, 2017 02:58
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They done got are boat
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Apr 1, 2017 02:58
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Fiction posted:It's funny seeing people spout complete falsehoods about Korean history and then smugly act like they should be taken seriously. Surely any western imperialist running pig dog suggesting that the glorious dear leader didn't hit 18 hole-in-ones in a row is a counter revolutionary agitator and should be starved to death along with his entire family, in laws, neighbors, former classmates, anyone who shops at the same stores and so on.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:58
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What if I told u...North Korean famines are a result of a US bombing campaign in the late Korean war that focused on non-military essential infrastructure, and that these famines are made worse simaltaneously by US sanctions and their horrible military regime of a gov.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:59
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Fallen Hamprince posted:i'm sure u had similarly nuanced feelings about the invasion of iraq peel I'm glad you've taken on board my posting about the danger of ascribing unrelated Bad Opinions to people we disagree with rather than engaging with their arguments, and have instead granted me the benefit of the doubt.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:59
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Ace of Baes posted:Nobody in this thread knows poo poo about North Korean history, it's filled with revisionists from both sides lol You're half right! Keep trying, tiger!
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Apr 1, 2017 03:01
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Ace of Baes posted:What if I told u...North Korean famines are a result of a US bombing campaign in the late Korean war that focused on non-military essential infrastructure, and that these famines are made worse simaltaneously by US sanctions and their horrible military regime of a gov. Why hasn't the government rebuilt them after 70 years
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Apr 1, 2017 03:02
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Ace of Baes posted:What if I told u...North Korean famines are a result of a US bombing campaign in the late Korean war that focused on non-military essential infrastructure, and that these famines are made worse simaltaneously by US sanctions and their horrible military regime of a gov. the famines happened in the 1990s
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Apr 1, 2017 03:02
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Ace of Baes posted:What if I told u...North Korean famines are a result of a US bombing campaign in the late Korean war that focused on non-military essential infrastructure, and that these famines are made worse simaltaneously by US sanctions and their horrible military regime of a gov. So a bombing campaign in the mid 1950s is still hampering agricultural production 65 years later? Good thing we never did that to Germany, Japan, Italy, Vietnam, or anyone else we've been at war with in the last century! I'd hate to think about a bunch of starving Germans! Seriously your gimmick is tired. Go talk to pener for guidance on the light touch on the long troll. He's doing a much better job than you.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:05
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really hosed up of mcarthur to drop all those granary-busters with 40 year fuses, seems pretty mean-spirited imo
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Apr 1, 2017 03:07
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Fojar38 posted:imo you should save up to travel to north korea and learn first hand I lived in Korea for a year and met plenty of people who'd lived there.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:11
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Ace of Baes posted:I lived in Korea for a year and met plenty of people who'd lived there. why did you go to south korea and not north korea
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Apr 1, 2017 03:16
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