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Subjunctive posted:Yeah, my charitable donations are almost 5x my housing costs. No doubt it's going to building the guillotine.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:00
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36% net and 14% gross. Rent sucks.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:00
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Ashcans posted:Maybe you should stop donating to the International Guillotine Fund. They won't stop calling, and the little kids who can't afford their own weapons of class warfare...
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Apr 6, 2017 22:02
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John Smith posted:Funny. That is exactly what the Conservatives say about climate science. https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/robert-j--shilleron-whether-he-is-a-scientist http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/opinion/yes-economics-is-a-science.html And here's one saying it isn't http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/13/economics-science-wang/ I am in line with the not a science position because economics is retrospective model building and cannot actually perform controlled experiments. And at the end of the day, all the data is derived from complex systems of people where variables cannot be isolated. Calling economics science is fart-huffing. Also Anthropomorphic global climate change isn't a science either. It's a theory that has not yet been disproven by the scientific method.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:06
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30% gross, 40% net for a 1br in a "sketchy" (code for uh oh Mexicans live here) area that is rapidly gentrifying and still very close to downtown. Yay for living in a tiny yet huge city
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Apr 6, 2017 22:07
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Subjunctive posted:Yeah, my charitable donations are almost 5x my housing costs. No doubt it's going to building the guillotine. cowofwar posted:Trying to address a speculative bubble with supply requires flooding a market with supply which is terrible policy all around. But it makes a lot of money for developers.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:13
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quote:Reiki astrology isn't a science John Smith posted:Funny. That is exactly what the Conservatives say about climate science. Economics is "science" if everyone agrees it's "science" because there are no sharp boundaries or fool-proof litmus tests to define that term, but that doesn't mean it should be taken seriously or believed as if it had the same predictive value as biology or astronomy. Science isn't a unified body of equally authoritative things.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:14
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CmdrRiker posted:That sounds terrible. But I read earlier in this thread that Toronto is apparently pretty hosed up when it comes to real estate and renting, so I am not too surprised. I imagine you're in pretty good company with your peers in that area, too? John Smith posted:60%. Lol. Are you BWM or am I just very unfamiliar with Canada? Guess that hot real estate market is really hot right now huh. How do the local (non-Chinese) homeowners feel about it? Nah, I'm pretty GWM. A house where I live (just west of Toronto) would cost me 850k. The condo I rent would cost 450k. The only people happy about this market are investors, downsizers, and realtors. Everyone else is paralyzed, it sucks.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:17
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Academician Nomad posted:For real though society fetishizes the term "science," but it's not some magical totem that makes things correct or incorrect. Economics does not track any fundamental naturalistic principles and can't claim the kind of historical track record of worthwhile predictions and accomplishments that e.g. physics' pretige is built upon. That doesn't make it bad or worthless, plenty of very important and worthwhile endeavors aren't science (see: history, philosophy, religion), but trying to leech off of the social prestige of natural sciences is really dumb. Having lots of numbers and complex mathematics doesn't change that. I certainly agree with this. There is a ranking of sciences, and economics (and climate change) is pretty far down the totem pole compared to the physical sciences. But we should certainly be consistent. Climate science is pretty unreliable (relative to physics), yet many liberals firmly believe in that while denying economics. Not that she is necessarily a liberal, just saying this in general. In any case, she is not exactly arguing a fringe grey area there. To deny the notion that increasing supply will decrease prices (all else being equal) is pretty far out.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:26
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John Smith posted:That is it. I am declaring a simple rule of thumb. Everybody below 10% net gets the guillotine, and everybody above 10% net is a materialistic BWM. Obviously, 10% net is the one true path. I did the math wrong, it's 3%.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:26
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Trying to address a shortage of housing by not building housing is probably not going to work out. If a market is being used for speculative investment, the absence of new construction won't stop appreciation, it will just concentrate it within the fewer existing units and be worse than if no new supply was added. Also, this arguement seems to be being made from the stance that all housing is either owner occupied or vacant, because putting up a new rental building is going to add supply unless there was a more dense property there beforehand.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:27
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crazypeltast52 posted:Trying to address a shortage of housing by not building housing is probably not going to work out. If a market is being used for speculative investment, the absence of new construction won't stop appreciation, it will just concentrate it within the fewer existing units and be worse than if no new supply was added. But what if speculators load up and rent all those new units in East Palo Alto to rent it to AirBNBers?
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Apr 6, 2017 22:30
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Subjunctive posted:I did the math wrong, it's 3%. Oh man, you aren't going to get the guillotine. You, rich boy, am going to get the full package. Hanged, drawn and quartered. Guess all your contributions to the Guillotine Fund is wasted after all.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:32
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monster on a stick posted:But what if speculators load up and rent all those new units in East Palo Alto to rent it to AirBNBers? As opposed to then not being constructed and a bunch of other existing properties being grabbed for the same use? Or is demand for AirBnB rentals also functionally infinite?
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Apr 6, 2017 22:35
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crazypeltast52 posted:As opposed to then not being constructed and a bunch of other existing properties being grabbed for the same use? Or is demand for AirBnB rentals also functionally infinite? You clearly don't understand that there are an infinite number of speculators with an infinite amount of money. 
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Apr 6, 2017 22:45
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monster on a stick posted:You clearly don't understand that there are an infinite number of speculators with an infinite amount of money. Well met!
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Apr 6, 2017 22:47
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My biggest problem is that left to their own devices, developers all want to churn out luxury 1bd and 2bd apartments, which is fine as far as it goes but doesn't do anything to really provide working-class housing and housing suitable for families. Even if you let them build until the supply exceeds demand and rents/prices drop, you would get left with a bunch of empty 1bd apartments or microstudios that aren't useful to many people at almost any price. It's even worse when the developments often consume older buildings/spaces that used to actually provide that housing. Letting the market run itself out isn't necessarily going to be conducive to actually providing what is best/needed for a city's population or growth.
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Apr 6, 2017 22:51
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John Smith posted:I certainly agree with this. There is a ranking of sciences, and economics (and climate change) is pretty far down the totem pole compared to the physical sciences. But we should certainly be consistent. Climate science is pretty unreliable (relative to physics), yet many liberals firmly believe in that while denying economics. Not that she is necessarily a liberal, just saying this in general. That said, increasing supply of interchangeable goods will decrease prices, but increasing supply per se will not necessarily. If someone puts up hundreds/thousands of units of affordable housing that would definitely help. At least one of the problems is that affordable, mass housing is less profitable than building smaller numbers of large, luxury units aimed at investors / elites (who don't move in/out as much, and sometimes don't use the building at all). This creates competition at the very top, but effects down the foodchain are marginal at best. Thus, "building" alone won't have much impact, without adding a clause of "large quantities of cheaper housing with access to public transportation." 1000 new Teslas being sold in Charlotte might logically lower the average price of cars but it isn't going to let me buy a used Prius much cheaper in the next few years. We can maybe all agree though that cities should place ordinances that require developers to build more affordable housing in meaningful quantities as a precondition of making more luxury units? Academician Nomad fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 22:54
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to sum up this debate on the theoretical foundations of economics and its status as a scientific discipline: the rent is too drat high
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Apr 6, 2017 22:56
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12% gross household including taxes and insurance for mortgage in a city with a low CoL, though I'm doubling up on payments, which brings it to 21% It's like 50% of net because I'm dumping 15% into retirement, maxing my yearly Roth contributions, and setting aside some extra for savings, plus a lot is taken in taxes. cowofwar posted:
 Also anyone that thinks the housing market can't become unmoored from reality needs to watch The Big Short again. All sorts of basic economic principles were violated leading up to the Great Recession
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Apr 6, 2017 23:02
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This could also belong in a "idiots on social media" or stdh.txt thread.quote:I hate when people complain about 40 hour, 50 hour, 60 hour work weeks... if you're working this much Embrace it, love it, appreciate it ... stop loving complaining! I work 100+ hour weeks and you'll never hear me complain about working. I might complain that my legs and knees are swollen and back hurts, because of my stupid spinal injury, nerve damage and no feeling in part of my leg which I have no control of and I still don't make excuses for it Who is this man, toiling hard for the benefit of society and looking down on the weaklings who would like to see their families or sleep? A captain of industry? A physician? An emergency responder? No! It's a DJ who also makes machine-embroidered baseball hats in his garage.
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Apr 6, 2017 23:03
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canyoneer posted:This could also belong in a "idiots on social media" or stdh.txt thread. Turn your passion for making machine-embroidered baseball hats into a job, they say. I think.
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Apr 6, 2017 23:08
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Ashcans posted:My biggest problem is that left to their own devices, developers all want to churn out luxury 1bd and 2bd apartments, which is fine as far as it goes but doesn't do anything to really provide working-class housing and housing suitable for families. Even if you let them build until the supply exceeds demand and rents/prices drop, you would get left with a bunch of empty 1bd apartments or microstudios that aren't useful to many people at almost any price. It's even worse when the developments often consume older buildings/spaces that used to actually provide that housing. Letting the market run itself out isn't necessarily going to be conducive to actually providing what is best/needed for a city's population or growth. If those units are leasing for so little and there is such a shortage of larger units, you can knock down intervening walls to make bigger units. Most new construction buildings can be reconfigured if the developer misses that badly on their unit mix, it's just moving some walls and taking out a kitchen. Also building any housing results in filtering if you can build enough, because the people moving into new building stop bidding up rents the the next newest/nicest buildings and it moves through the housing supply. Forcing inclusionary zoning as mandated affordable units is called is not an unalloyed positive, as it reduces the amount of new supply that gets built, making people who don't get those specific affordable hnits worse off in aggregate than they would be if those units were not mandated as affordable. This isn't to attack affordable housing programs, although affordable housing developers have skewed incentives in that they don't have the same motivations to value engineer their construction costs that marlet rate developers have.
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Apr 6, 2017 23:12
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cowofwar posted:Here are some mealy mouthed unconvincing articles that try to say economics is a science Uh did you read that third article that said that his criticism of economics didn't apply to microeconomics, but for macroeconomics as a bulletproof predictive and proscriptive scientific model? Because that's not a controversial opinion inside the field. The joke in behavioral economics is "when X happens, people tend to Y, except when they don't." Talking about how demand and supply affects pricing in a city's housing market is pretty solidly in the realm of microeconomics and is pretty well understood. Experiments can demonstrate the principles behind it. I have participated in those experiments. By that logic, one had better throw out psychology with the not a science bathwater too, because you can't possibly control all those variables too!
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Apr 6, 2017 23:33
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I once took an anatomy of the brain course It made me respect psychology that much more, apparently physiology-based psychology has been all the rage for a while and we understand the mechanisms behind brain functions so much better than the average person thinks we do that's my unrelated tangent of the day y'all
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Apr 6, 2017 23:35
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I'm at the customer service desk at Lowe's and the customer at the adjacent station is pleading with the customer service rep to increase the credit line on his Lowe's card so he can get a new 4 burner grill before the weekend.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:19
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Academician Nomad posted:A claim that "many liberals deny economics" is absurd. As a historian of science, I also rankle at the idea of a "ranking" of sciences, though some are more useful for particular things than others. Climate science is also pretty damned solid and well-founded over the course of many decades of data gathering and analysis by large numbers of teams of people making accurate predictions. I am against requirements for percentage of affordable housing because I think there are a lot od ways around doing it properly and I am uncomfortable with the government telling a builder thay have to build something. Homestly I think the best solution is for the govermant itself to either soinsor the building of affordable housing through construction loans and land grants or flat out build massive amounts of affordable multi family housing units so that people have somewhere affordable to live. I also think this approach would tackle the supply problem directly rather than trying to get developers to do what you want when they want to do something else.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:19
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pig slut lisa posted:I'm at the customer service desk at Lowe's and the customer at the adjacent station is pleading with the customer service rep to increase the credit line on his Lowe's card so he can get a new 4 burner grill before the weekend. I'm saving this for wonderhangers 2017.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:24
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33% net, all in (mortgage, taxes, insurance). Even the dreaded PMI (the place is appreciating enough that I should be able to drop it in a year or two, and even if it doesn't, it's still manageable). It sounds bad. But we're getting a 3 bedroom house with a 2 car garage and yard for the price of an average-ish one bedroom apartment in the area. The people who live behind us paid 35K more 1 year later and thought they got a steal. God, the Denver area sucks these days...
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Apr 7, 2017 00:31
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Subjunctive posted:I did the math wrong, it's 3%. 3% of net is so insanely low I'm exceedingly envious. What are you paying like $550 a month? That's the cheapest place I ever lived and it was an AWESOME 1 BR apartment in cosmopolitan Des Moines Rock City.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:36
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We're at 25% net, which puts me at the BWM upper end on this survey. But in my defense I'm currently in-between jobs
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Apr 7, 2017 00:40
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canyoneer posted:By that logic, one had better throw out psychology with the not a science bathwater too, because you can't possibly control all those variables too! I mean, the endless failures of replication there aren't really helping.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:51
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4% gross household, but we're on a 15 year note.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:28
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I'm a retail manager in Toronto. I pay 37% of net income to split a 400 square foot basement conversion below a rooming house. 8 people in one converted 2BR house. It was under market. And median rent has gone up 25%+ since I signed the lease! Near all-time low prime interest rates do bad things.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:30
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23% net, including taxes, insurance, etc. We fight our property tax evaluations every year (Austin). We live about ten minutes from downtown in an "up and coming" neighborhood. In five years, our house has supposedly gained $131k in value.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:33
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:3% of net is so insanely low I'm exceedingly envious. What are you paying like $550 a month? That's the cheapest place I ever lived and it was an AWESOME 1 BR apartment in cosmopolitan Des Moines Rock City. Almost exactly that. I'm cheating though: no mortgage or rent, just property taxes.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:33
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Did I read the quitclaim one correctly? It appears that he sold the property for 27,000 payments of $10 and she missed the first month's payment. Isn't that 2250 years until it's paid for? I'm assuming it was set up to be easily mistaken for 10 payments of $27k.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:42
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36% gross, 48% net if you count 401k plus match, and we're paying below market rent because our land lady likes us.  The numbers suck because my wife's currently at home with our two year old.This will change very soon. I just got a job offer, that should be about a 65% increase in salary (still waiting for the phone call with HR to get exact compensation details). And since we know where we'll be now my wife will start looking for a job. When I told my mom, she said "now you can buy a house and stop throwing money away on rent."
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Apr 7, 2017 01:58
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the solution to affordable housing is not easy and cannot be left up to the market (because the market doesn't optimize for what's best, just what's most profitable) but in California, proposition 13 probably has something to do with it. Beyond that I throw up my hands, leave it to the experts on the Left, and wait impatiently for my fully automated luxury government commune. also the more I read the BWM thread the more and more socialist I become so thank you 😊 PS if economics is a science then the field's refusal to give any time to alternative economic models when discussing the crises of capitalism is that field's version of climate change denial. ChickenOfTomorrow fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 02:20
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Saeku posted:I'm a retail manager in Toronto. I pay 37% of net income to split a 400 square foot basement conversion below a rooming house. 8 people in one converted 2BR house. It was under market. I legit do not know how people live in this city. We just found a new place to rent. It's a decent 2 bedroom, older building, nothing flash: $2300. And that's an absolute steal. I saw a place at church/isabella, 2 bedroom, 2400 bucks: the main room was this 10' square room that was living room, laundry room, dining, room, and kitchen (sink/stove/fridge along one wall). Guy showed it to me and managed to keep a straight face. I don't know how he did it. I'm finally making decent scratch and so is the mrs. but still this place is nuts, apparently you're how people not on high 5 figures live these days. When I was still doing land surveying and making gently caress all money i was able to make rent on my own and live comfortably but not luxuriously, and that was only like 5 years ago. olylifter fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 02:21
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