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I love the way his body intersects the holograms. Watch this scene again and they have so many little touches, like how he traces the lines of the orbits with his finger and the holograms respond to it. And the way his ring reflects the hologram beams as it drifts through the display. Incredible. Then they throw it all away with that loving incinerator flash sequence 
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Apr 7, 2017 00:03
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Boing posted:Then they throw it all away with that loving incinerator flash sequence Yes. Everything is now void because of a less than 30 second effects shot.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:08
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Boing posted:I love the way his body intersects the holograms. Watch this scene again and they have so many little touches, like how he traces the lines of the orbits with his finger and the holograms respond to it. And the way his ring reflects the hologram beams as it drifts through the display. Incredible. When does he do that? All I see is him making some random gestures.
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Apr 7, 2017 00:10
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edit: Stupid phone app I love how Amos psychopathy basically saves everyones' lives in the moment MOVIE MAJICK fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 01:05
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Wow, you really goofed that up.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:11
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Baronjutter posted:There's no stealth in space, but there is in the expanse some how. Don't worry about it. In the expanse if you aren't doing a main engine burn you're pretty well hidden. Yes but that doesn't mean you can instantly spot every object in the sky. One thing that really bugs me about Atomic Rocket's analysis of space stealth is that he only considers either perfect stealth or no stealth at all, with no grey area in between.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:01
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Longbaugh01 posted:
Its not that he reversed his orbit. Both the roci and the Martian ship would be orbiting in the same direction, but relative to the Martian ship the roci is getting farther away, thus disappearing behind the horizon.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:06
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Subyng posted:Yes but that doesn't mean you can instantly spot every object in the sky. One thing that really bugs me about Atomic Rocket's analysis of space stealth is that he only considers either perfect stealth or no stealth at all, with no grey area in between. What? No, it doesn't consider only that. The difficulty of stealth in space is predicated on the fact that when things warm up, they radiate, and being able to scan the whole sky for that radiation is a fairly modest task, well within the capability of any entity that can actually engage in advanced interplanetary travel. It doesn't mean you can instantly spot every object in the sky, no, but it does mean you can scan the entire sky at a sufficiently-rapid rate to detect this radiation with sufficient rapidity to render most means of avoid detection pretty much impossible. Even inert objects like dead rocks radiate in the IR well brighter than the background. Fire a high-thrust engine, you'll be seen. Cold-gas thrusters, okay, perhaps not, but the maneuvering capability with those is insignificant. Things like ion engines require a power source, which will also generate heat. If you're carrying people on board, those people need a warm environment to survive in. Imperfect stealth would be things like sequestering your heat in some insulated region of the ship, which will only work for a while because everything tends towards equilibrium. Or into a mass of coolant that you can dump overboard when able. Or trying to hide yourself against a brighter background, like the sun, which can only work in certain limited situations. These are all mentioned there, so yeah, it definitely covers the grey area in between.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:17
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Also there'd absolutely be some agency (or multiple) tracking every ship and object in the sky. Maybe he would have been hidden behind a moon, but it would have been known that something had gone to that moon and was hiding there. In a tense military situation such an unknown ship would be investigated and absolutely would have been tracked coming in. Even if you some how cut everything and run cold and have some sort of unknown stealth tech, even if you're not on sensors your exact location would still be known due to the laws of physics. If you wanted to change your course that would require your engines and give you away again. But, in the expanse there are super efficient fusion drives and stealth in space. That's the rules of the show.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:24
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Subyng posted:Its not that he reversed his orbit. Both the roci and the Martian ship would be orbiting in the same direction, but relative to the Martian ship the roci is getting farther away, thus disappearing behind the horizon. Why would they necessarily be orbiting in the same direction? We don't know that for sure unless I missed something that confirmed that.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:42
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With how easy it is to "lose" ships in the show they have worse sensor technology than we do in the current day.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:00
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They could have definitely cleared that up by having Alex glance at a relative speed readout or display one more prominently. The sequence was ok to me up till then and a nice callback to the slingshot racers Miller ran into. My biggest issue was that awful casket incinerator.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:00
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Why does there even need to be an incinerator? They just leave in the book
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Apr 7, 2017 03:06
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Baronjutter posted:
In the first book (and maybe the first season, I don't remember) stealth ships are tracked by their hulls' IR. So it's not like the stealth ships are that stealthy, they're just painted black, the hulls are cooled to reduce IR, and all of their waste heat is sequestered somewhere magical.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:09
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They wouldn't have had to change all that much to have Alex's landing go down the way it does in the books: no sneaking around; the Roci just comes in hot while the blockade has bigger fish to fry.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:14
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ATP_Power posted:With how easy it is to "lose" ships in the show they have worse sensor technology than we do in the current day. But a “good scope” can see an unpowered yacht (Solomon Epstein’s) from seven light‐years away. Phi230 posted:Why does there even need to be an incinerator? They just leave in the book The “we must cleanse Ganymede of the Protomolecule” priority is increased to give Naomi decent justification to split from the crew. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 03:14
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There are three stealth technologies specifically described in the Expanse. 1) Angled reflective hulls to scatter radar and such away so it doesn't return to the scope of the sender, like we use today. 2) Heat sequestration, which you can only do for a limited period of time. 3) Future-tech hull coverings that absorb all EM radiation that hits them, no reflection whatsoever. The third one is the only one you just have to accept like the Epstein drive. The real problem with the "no stealth in space" argument is it assumes everyone involved always has perfect information and never makes any mistakes, which is a lot more unrealistic than a stealth ship.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:17
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Phanatic posted:What? No, it doesn't consider only that. Avoiding detection doesn't mean you have to be impossible to detect, it just means that you have to avoid being detected for the amount of time in which you need to avoid being seen. That's the grey area I'm referring to that isn't really sufficiently acknowledged in my opinion. It implies that any stealth technology to which there is a means of detection is useless, which is obviously not true. It's like looking at a Where's Waldo book. There's nothing the artist can do to perfectly hide Waldo (short of not drawing him), yet he is still difficult to find.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:32
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Longbaugh01 posted:Why would they necessarily be orbiting in the same direction? We don't know that for sure unless I missed something that confirmed that. They would have to be in order for that scene to make physical sense. The Roci ducks back under the horizon using only its thrusters, so the relative velocity between the two ships couldn't be that large (ignoring the fact that it's already been mentioned that the entire sequence was very implausible) Subyng fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 03:33
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Grand Fromage posted:The real problem with the "no stealth in space" argument is it assumes everyone involved always has perfect information and never makes any mistakes, which is a lot more unrealistic than a stealth ship. Sort of. The core of the argument is that even with unrealistically powerful engines it still takes a long time to get anywhere in space and it's relatively cheap and easy to quickly scan the sky for bright objects. Even a tiny little backwater station should have the capability of tracking more or less every ship in the solar system that isn't being physically occluded by something. That's true even if your scanning system is really slow, because at a minimum you have days to detect incoming objects.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:47
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Subyng posted:There's nothing the artist can do to perfectly hide Waldo (short of not drawing him) That would be really hosed up
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Apr 7, 2017 03:50
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Subyng posted:They would have to be in order for that scene to make physical sense. The Roci ducks back under the horizon using only its thrusters, so the relative velocity between the two ships couldn't be that large (ignoring the fact that it's already been mentioned that the entire sequence was very implausible) You're making this more complicated than necessary and must've missed this post and my reply referencing it: Phanatic posted:The outer moons of Jupiter are just captured asteroids. Cyllene is a whole 2 kilometers in radius, it's smaller than established space stations in the Expanse. The escape velocity from its surface is a whole one meter per second. Alex and the Roci can just totally break orbit completely with thrusters and thus avoid detection. There's no need to contrive more than that, and because of this information, that part of the sequence went from implausible for me to completely plausible.
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Apr 7, 2017 04:06
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I'm really glad I'm not the only one upset with the slingshot scene, because man that was bad. At least the producers are aware of what was wrong with it. I guess that's one of the downsides of the show vs the books - everything has to happen at breakneck speed on the show, but the books can go at a slow pace to reflect accurate travel times. You get the impression that everything from the first episode of season 1 to now has taken place in less than a month, but at this point in the books it's been several years since the beginning.
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Apr 7, 2017 07:15
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This was a really great episode. Also we fired 50 missiles at Syria.
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Apr 7, 2017 07:15
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does syria dodge the missiles and fly free of the levant and crush the great satan residing in florida?
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Apr 7, 2017 07:23
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20 of the missiles didn't explode and are controlled by ISIS now.
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Apr 7, 2017 07:23
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Cojawfee posted:20 of the missiles didn't explode and are controlled by ISIS now. Easily solved with more missiles.
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Apr 7, 2017 09:27
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Bates posted:Easily solved with more missiles. He was referencing the nukes Fred Johnson got.
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Apr 7, 2017 09:31
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Pretty rude to compare the belters to isis sounds like you're ...an enemy of the belt *launches asteroid at u*
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Apr 7, 2017 09:41
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It's actually kind of surprising that major population hubs in the belt haven't been wiped out by someone going super ballistic and smashing into a station at relativistic speeds. How would you even counter someone trying that? How could you intercept in time?
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Apr 7, 2017 09:58
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Um...Zzulu that probably wasn't a good idea.
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Apr 7, 2017 11:08
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Phi230 posted:Why does there even need to be an incinerator? They just leave in the book I assume to allude to future tension between Holden and Prax. Holden is shown to want to destroy all PM with the incinerator scene. It's becoming clear to Prax that his daughter has been infected with PM. Prax has the best chance to find his daughter if he stays with Holden, but he also knows that Holden will want to destroy his daughter when they do find her. I'd also guess that we're being led to another Julie-Miller type moment, where Prax can talk to and control May when they find her. But Holden won't trust it and will want to destroy the PM.
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Apr 7, 2017 15:01
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Was that a normal grenade that was tossed into the room or was it perhaps a Proto molecule grenade? I ask because it seemed to turn at least one person into a Proto molecule monster
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Apr 7, 2017 15:31
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I think it was a normal grenade, but it caused something to gently caress up and allow the protomolecule monster to escape.
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Apr 7, 2017 15:32
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Was that a normal grenade that was tossed into the room or was it perhaps a Proto molecule grenade? I ask because it seemed to turn at least one person into a Proto molecule monster What? That protomolecule person was inside that holding cell and escaped once the grenade went off.
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Apr 7, 2017 15:33
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They had the thing anaesthetized with gas, the blast broke the cage and let the gas out, protomonster woke up and busted out and killed everyone.
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Apr 7, 2017 15:39
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Phanatic posted:They had the thing anaesthetized with gas, the blast broke the cage and let the gas out, protomonster woke up and busted out and killed everyone. and I love how they very clearly told this story simply with sound effects and some air. Explosion, shocked yelling and monster yelling. Gunfire and death, human screams stop, banging and smashing, air pressure drop. It was perfect.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:12
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The grenade thing was perfect. Amos's face all like "those are not the sounds that should happen after a grenade." I'm a little sad that Holden didn't take Prax's gun back after he triggered a firefight by waving it around like a madman. I think the line about "everybody knew that cocking the hammer of your gun was how you emphasized your point in these situations" and then everybody going loud - because that's what actually happens when a wild-eyed man with a gun on you cocks the hammer - was one of my favorite bits of the book.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:31
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I think those pizza dudes were going to shoot anyways. They didn't put their hands up and people involved in proto-monster research tend to be pretty hardcore and ready to die to get the mission done. Amos and crew should have each taken targets and open fired at the guards the moment they didn't follow their orders.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:56
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Baronjutter posted:I think those pizza dudes were going to shoot anyways. They didn't put their hands up and people involved in proto-monster research tend to be pretty hardcore and ready to die to get the mission done. Amos and crew should have each taken targets and open fired at the guards the moment they didn't follow their orders. Nah man. They were all chill and just wanted to share their space pizza and be space bros.
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Apr 7, 2017 17:00
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