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SoundMonkey posted:i had a moss bathmat for a while and it was pretty legit and was nice on the feet (and not dirty) but it was hard to keep it evenly watered, standing on it after a shower for 30 seconds is actually not enough shockingly It may be if you shower more than once a week.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:41
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Effective-Disorder posted:Even if you wedge those things in really snug between the flanges, is screwing them through the flakeboard going to transfer loads properly? You're trying to replace the capacity for compressive strength from the top flange onto something that naturally wants to give in to vertical forces, held together on a different plane with plywood and some screws. It's adding weight and (more importantly) new loading factors in. All the compressive loads are now shearing loads on the interface of the screws, flakeboard, and 2x8. Not to mention the tensile loading on/around that scarf joint possibly leading to torque that can't be accounted for without some math. If you drew a static diagram of that arrangement, it would be a mess. That's actually not a bad idea, but they'll say tear our the floor. 😟
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Apr 7, 2017 01:45
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IncredibleIgloo posted:It may be if you shower more than once a week. No shampoo.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:46
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Burt Sexual posted:That's actually not a bad idea, but they'll say tear our the floor. 😟 Almost without question they would say, "get new beams". They have no interest in being responsible for the advice they give me to fix this. It would open them up to too many opportunities for problems. Or they would tell me to talk to an engineer.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:47
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Hell im not even sure you can JOIN those engineered joists- Every new double story house they've put up around here (im in AU for reference) has had them come from factory manufactured to dimension to span the entire width in one segment. The only time ive seen them in two pieces across a house was on a double framed internal wall with the joists offset to get a full 180mm of support and then the entire thing is clad in 18mm yellowtongue flooring.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:59
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bEatmstrJ posted:Or they would tell me to talk to an engineer. That's what many people will say. Meh, anyway, like I said, "for fun". Mostly just to see how they react.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:00
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Effective-Disorder posted:Even if you wedge those things in really snug between the flanges, is screwing them through the flakeboard going to transfer loads properly? You're trying to replace the capacity for compressive strength from the top flange onto something that naturally wants to give in to vertical forces, held together on a different plane with plywood and some screws. It's adding weight and (more importantly) new loading factors in. All the compressive loads are now shearing loads on the interface of the screws, flakeboard, and 2x8. Not to mention the tensile loading on/around that scarf joint possibly leading to torque that can't be accounted for without some math. If you drew a static diagram of that arrangement, it would be a mess. This is an interesting thought. If I could "header-off" the joists on both sides of my tub, and then install new shorter joists between them, that would solve my problem. The only thing is, the PDF doesn't specify if you can have more than one "damaged" joist, so that's still up in the air. Otherwise this seems like a reasonable solution that wouldn't be very invasive.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:00
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bEatmstrJ posted:This is an interesting thought. If I could "header-off" the joists on both sides of my tub, and then install new shorter joists between them, that would solve my problem. The only thing is, the PDF doesn't specify if you can have more than one "damaged" joist, so that's still up in the air. Otherwise this seems like a reasonable solution that wouldn't be very invasive. Yeah, it's not easy to imagine that you can just pop headers in there and expect them to pick up the slack from all those joists. But again, you can always call and ask them.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:02
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Ferremit posted:Hell im not even sure you can JOIN those engineered joists- Every new double story house they've put up around here (im in AU for reference) has had them come from factory manufactured to dimension to span the entire width in one segment. The only time ive seen them in two pieces across a house was on a double framed internal wall with the joists offset to get a full 180mm of support and then the entire thing is clad in 18mm yellowtongue flooring. My joists are 14' in length and span most of the width of my bathroom, minus about 2 feet which goes into my closet. Since I have to remove the left side subfloor to redo the new shower drain I will have easy access to most of the joist length.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:02
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bEatmstrJ posted:This is an interesting thought. If I could "header-off" the joists on both sides of my tub, and then install new shorter joists between them, that would solve my problem. The only thing is, the PDF doesn't specify if you can have more than one "damaged" joist, so that's still up in the air. Otherwise this seems like a reasonable solution that wouldn't be very invasive. It may apply in your case depending as you say on the tolerance for a wider gap. A concern with that particular solution is that there might be a limit to how much weighting it can withstand in the gapped section. Obviously creating a pass-through for a pipe like in the diagram that isn't a problem, but it might be with the tub installation. I don't think you've mentioned it or maybe I missed it, but what's underneath that tub location?
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Apr 7, 2017 02:03
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This thread is interesting in that it mirrors political threads with a number of what ifs, lack of accurate/complete information, and shading the truth.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:07
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Burt Sexual posted:This thread is interesting in that it mirrors political threads with a number of what ifs, lack of accurate/complete information, and shading the truth. I hereby nominate you for best av/post combo in thread.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:09
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So just to be clear, this is the phase where we unanimously recommend an all bacon and lard diet, right?
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Apr 7, 2017 02:10
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TheRagamuffin posted:So just to be clear, this is the phase where we unanimously recommend an all bacon and lard diet, right? Could tell him to "sever", but it's the wrong board and he's already done that.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:10
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Effective-Disorder posted:Could tell him to "sever", but it's the wrong board and he's already done that. also, severed te wrong board
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Apr 7, 2017 02:11
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:also, severed te wrong board  But seriously, he severed lots of boards. Now is the time for solutions! Edit: Full disclosure? I majored in electrical engineering. I'm not a PE, and I had two semesters that touched on materials and statics. I got decent grades, but this an expert does not I make. This looks like the homework problem from hell. I get cold shivers looking at this situation. My father the contractor would not even touch this without something with a stamp on it, for good reason. We're talking about a man who will put his faith in god and duct tape on a regular basis. For the love of god, just spend the money on a real professional engineer who knows what he/she/them/whatever is doing (someone brought up the politics board) and I promise you it will be worth it. You're putting a bathtub, with water and people, on top of this mess, and I don't think an act of god would save it from an inexpensive solution at this point. That's just where you are right now, and possibly you're lying in a bathtub in your basement down the road wondering where things went wrong. Don't be that guy, please. Effective-Disorder fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 02:14
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glynnenstein posted:
Well, if the tub came crashing down, it would take out a few kitchen cabinets and then hit a small kitchen counter and possibly the corner of my kitchen island before landing safely on the post-tension concrete slab of a floor below, somewhere in the intersection of tile-meets-carpet.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:30
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Effective-Disorder posted:Right? I mean, why even worry about renovating when you can just cover stuff with plants? Plants don't need permits. Plants like bathrooms because it is humid. But plants also need lots of light. Do you have three nice big windows in your bathroom to let in lots of natural light? Or did a previous DYIer wall them all over?
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Apr 7, 2017 02:33
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bEatmstrJ posted:Well, if the tub came crashing down, it would take out a few kitchen cabinets and then hit a small kitchen counter and possibly the corner of my kitchen island before landing safely on the post-tension concrete slab of a floor below, somewhere in the intersection of tile-meets-carpet. I'm assuming you'll solve it so that it doesn't actually end up falling Money Pit style, though if not keep a web cam on it! Viral gold right there. I was just wondering what kind of options there might be to install bracing/cantilever/whatever below the joists. If it lines up at or near a wall, for example, there is a lot you could do.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:33
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bEatmstrJ posted:and then install new shorter joists between them, that would solve my problem. I just reread and rethought on this. This most likely will not solve your problem for the same reasons the scarf joint sister project won't. With all of the parts in between, there is no way to be sure of it without knowing anything about how these parts are intended to interact. Like I said, they did the math, knowing all that they know, when they published that technical bulletin, and as follows, they can only account for the cases outlined there. Also bathtub, incase you forgot. Bathtub right on top of the pivot point for the whole mess. Not good. I apologize if I led you to some kind of hopeful idea about things by showing you that document, but my point was that your situation is way out of the scope considered there, and you'll definitely need someone who knows what they're doing to figure out a solution. And, even though your stalker was a total nutcase about it, he did have a point about inspections and permits. Those parts come with a stamp on them because someone did all the leg work on calculations for you. If you change those parts, that stamp doesn't mean gently caress all for insurance, permitting, etc. You could be setting yourself up for a serious financial issue down the road.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:36
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Facebook Aunt posted:Plants like bathrooms because it is humid. But plants also need lots of light. Do you have three nice big windows in your bathroom to let in lots of natural light? Or did a previous DYIer wall them all over? Easy, grow lamps. Sure, the cops might bust down my door looking for pot, but they'll be drat impressed with my lush and verdant bathroom. Or just get smelly cave plants, and cave salamanders. Then if mushrooms grow out of the floor, nobody will care because it will fit the theme. Goon bathroom. (Actually, those air plants don't need a hell of a lot of light. A lot of them grow under the canopy of trees, like little parasites. They're cool.)
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Apr 7, 2017 02:40
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dest posted:Looks cool, but would probably need a ton of natural light to keep all that alive. Those all tolerate low light.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:43
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TY for coming back OP. I've seen lots of DIY people gently caress up, run off, and never come back when people reveal what terrible thing they've done, but you've got guts for sticking it out even after some creepy weirdo tried to doxx you. Please keep at it and let us know how your repairs go and show off the finished bathroom when all is said and done. Thank you. 
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Apr 7, 2017 03:17
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Effective-Disorder posted:I can't afford to spend money on lessons at Brick and Mortar Established Music Tutors because I'm broke / a total cheap-wad. But, I am still a piano owner, and hopefully someday a piano user. So there's that. This guy doesn't have PMs, so sorry for the brief thread derail everyone: three suggestions: 1) Do you have a community college nearby? Then there's a real good chance you've got access to cheap piano lessons. Almost every community college in America has at least a rudimentary music program, and piano is almost always a core class for music majors, since it's a very effective way to teach reading written music and the basics of pitch/chord theory. Tuition varies but it's unusual to see more than $50/unit. Also, your state or local jurisdiction may have income-based tuition discounts, such as California's Board Of Governors' waiver. If you're really broke enough to be in the market for beer-money lessons, look into this. You may be able to get lessons for even less than beer money. 2) The Something Awful Forums › The Finer Arts › No Music Discussion › Musician's Lounge › PIANO MEGATHREAD: How to start out 3) https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=piano lessons No time like the present! A free piano that's in tune and not getting played is a sad thing!
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Apr 7, 2017 03:34
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bEatmstrJ posted:This is an interesting thought. If I could "header-off" the joists on both sides of my tub, and then install new shorter joists between them, that would solve my problem. The only thing is, the PDF doesn't specify if you can have more than one "damaged" joist, so that's still up in the air. Otherwise this seems like a reasonable solution that wouldn't be very invasive. glynnenstein posted:What's underneath that tub location? bEatmstrJ posted:Well, if the tub came crashing down, it would take out a few kitchen cabinets and then hit a small kitchen counter and possibly the corner of my kitchen island before landing safely on the post-tension concrete slab of a floor below, somewhere in the intersection of tile-meets-carpet. You'd need structure underneath to stabilize the ends of the joists. Replacing the beams end to end is what I'd expect most would tell you off the cuff. As others have said--hire an engineer or two to come over and give some advice. If it was me--I'd concoct a crazy story about an out-state brother-in-law that claimed he could help or some poo poo. Haven't gone over the whole thread. But has anyone brought up inspections? Specifically the Inspections Department? Whether you get a licensed contractor or a builder involved--those people should apply for a building permit. I am right there with you with always feeling like contractors bend you over the barrel. $40,000! I can do it for $20K! But part of that extra cost would be the preliminary stuff like plans, engineering, and permits. Those permits and the required inspections can be seen as a drawback--but as a huge TOH fan--I've learned inspectors are a homeowner's best friend. For most people, their home is their largest investment. You want that home to maintain its value which means marketable. Selling a home with unpermitted additions (like finished basements, extra bedrooms, extra baths) gets sticky. But what you absolutely don't want to happen is to sell your house and then have the flooring fail spectacularly. (The home owner's insurance company would pay to repair the damage and my money would be on the insurance company doing their damnedest to find out who did the work.) I guess the point being: Even if you pull your own permit--you are going to need to get a permit. Try not to upset the people at the Inspections Department and maybe you won't have to remove everything so they can inspect your rough plumbing and electrical. Who knows, your photos might let you leave the new vanity in place. But I digress. To fix your floor you are going to need stamped plans. i.e. An engineer is going to have to create a plan to fix the floor. And that is why you may want to initially involve a few engineers. Explain to each 1) you don't have a lot of money at the start of the project. 2) Need to repair the safest and most economical method. 3) And need stamped plans for your permit. Not sure of your market. In our market getting the engineer on site for a project estimate ranges from free to $200. The site visit and stamped plans would work out $400-$500 for your repair. Anyhow, listen to what each engineer proposes. Figure out which solution you like the best and have them draw up and stamp the plans. With those plans in hand you can head to the Inspections Department and pull your own permit. Take every thing an inspector tells you as learning and not confrontational. Your next bathroom will be even better. And last tip--you'll probably like the engineers from a solo or small office versus the corporate/nationwide firms. Your local builder supply store (a place that sells the BCI joists) can probably give you a few good names. Craigslist seems like the scariest place in the world to find a builder/contractor/engineer. HycoCam fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 03:37
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OMGVBFLOL posted:This guy doesn't have PMs, so sorry for the brief thread derail everyone: Hey, thanks! I got a notion listening to Thelonious Monk and the like in some 1-credit GE intro-to-Jazz thing back in school, and since then told myself I wanted to at least learn how piano does music thingy on some level, but never really had the follow-through to do anything about it. I got the piano, and one of my friends who helped me get it on a trailer rode behind and played the thing the whole way back, and I put it in a room and forgot about it once I stopped laughing at how much fun that was. I mean, it's definitely not in tune, but it's still in one piece, more or less, so I might as well do something useful with it. I'll definitely check those out, since I have enough free time to talk about bathrooms and joists anyway. Thanks for giving me a starting line!
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Apr 7, 2017 03:45
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I think, depending on where you live, that the building permit people may even have special (maybe voluntary) paperwork and advice for owners doing work on their own property. Also I know you are trying to keep what's going under the tub a secret surprise but could we please have a hint?
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Apr 7, 2017 03:48
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Effective-Disorder posted:Easy, grow lamps. Sure, the cops might bust down my door looking for pot, but they'll be drat impressed with my lush and verdant bathroom. Funny post
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Apr 7, 2017 03:56
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OMGVBFLOL posted:This guy doesn't have PMs, so sorry for the brief thread derail everyone: And we veer to the left lol
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Apr 7, 2017 03:58
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HycoCam posted:Those permits and the required inspections can be seen as a drawback--but as a huge TOH fan--I've learned inspectors are a homeowner's best friend. You may notice that they do not always show footage of the inspection, I always imagine the reason is that Tommy let loose a string of colorful expletives at some bad news.
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Apr 7, 2017 04:09
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angryrobots posted:The inspectors that get tv time on TOH are not typical. No, no you misunderstood. Watching TOH has led me to believe there is no project that I can't do in 30 minutes or less. I always figure there will be a reinspection, so when the inspection does go off without a hitch its cause for celebration.
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Apr 7, 2017 04:24
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WrenP-Complete posted:Also I know you are trying to keep what's going under the tub a secret surprise but could we please have a hint? Woods porn, I'm betting.
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Apr 7, 2017 04:31
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angryrobots posted:The inspectors that get tv time on TOH are not typical. Probably an individual results may vary situation- I'm in the middle of a project and have had inspectors notice things twice, each time explicitly explaining the fix, and swinging back the same day to sign off on that part of the permit.
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Apr 7, 2017 05:30
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HycoCam posted:To fix your floor you are going to need stamped plans. i.e. An engineer is going to have to create a plan to fix the floor. And that is why you may want to initially involve a few engineers. Explain to each 1) you don't have a lot of money at the start of the project. 2) Need to repair the safest and most economical method. 3) And need stamped plans for your permit. Not sure of your market. In our market getting the engineer on site for a project estimate ranges from free to $200. The site visit and stamped plans would work out $400-$500 for your repair. Anyhow, listen to what each engineer proposes. Figure out which solution you like the best and have them draw up and stamp the plans. With those plans in hand you can head to the Inspections Department and pull your own permit. Don't worry, I'm definitely getting an engineer. At this point my speculation into how it could be fixed is only for my own amusement and trying to guess at what will really be recommended based on my limited understanding of structural engineering. I talked to one local engineer who basically said, without looking at it, that new shorter joists would be needed to be run the full length. He wants $500 to come over and do plans, but since he already told me what he's going to do I want to talk to some other people who might have different approaches. I suspect there is more than one way to engineer out of this. I talked to another engineer in Florida for a while and sent him many pictures and he was pretty certain he could engineer a solution that wouldn't require replacement, but once he found out I was in CA he said it wouldn't matter cause his plans wouldn't be accepted in my state, which I personally think is silly since engineering doesn't change from state to state (even though code does). I figure my worst case scenario is new beams get installed and I'm back with no sunken tub. My 2nd worst case scenario is shorter beams get installed and I get my sunken tub but its a very invasive process. The best possibility is someone retrofits my existing beams to work in place. I'm going to try to pick the brains of the project managers that come over and see what I can learn from them and hopefully get some additional leads on engineers, cause they aren't terribly easy to find, or at least I don't know how to find them around here.
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Apr 7, 2017 05:31
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Slugworth posted:Well poo poo, kid sinister was a good go-to for electrical advice. Now I'm gonna end up doing something even more disastrous then beatmaster. well hopefully someone else will be able to provide advice that doesnt involve them tracking down your family years later if you dont follow their every word
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Apr 7, 2017 05:38
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bEatmstrJ posted:He wants $500 to come over and do plans For what it's worth, that sounds pretty reasonable. I had a retired structural engineer come out to my house to look at removing a couple partition walls that had some load-bearing poo poo in them, and speccing out a beam and new posts inside the remaining walls so the space could open up and we could move the entire kitchen into it:  The bill for us chatting and figuring that out on-site was $170, and that was with the original drawings on-hand and nothing actually having been touched, i.e. purely speculative, which significantly eases the figuring that has to be done. AND this was in the heart of the land of cheap-living, also known as Central Iowa. Just knowing that you're in CA I feel like $500 to have an engineer tell you how to fix your broken house seems a pretty fair price to me. Of course, that doesn't cover actually ENACTING the repair, but there's a baseline for comparison for you at least. And I suspect that if you were willing to open up the ceiling below, you could put in some microlam or steel beams and actually do what you originally wanted to do with your mold farm plan.
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Apr 7, 2017 06:23
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I have insomnia... so with no hints, I found a bathroom that had many elements members of the thread has said they like. And this moss wall! 
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Apr 7, 2017 06:48
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WrenP-Complete posted:I have insomnia... so with no hints, I found a bathroom that had many elements members of the thread has said they like. First one looks bomb as hell, but I feel like deer are going to be watching me wash my rear end-crack, and that'll just make it weird when I see them out on a walk. Second one looks like step 1 in a 6 step plan that goes like: 'LEED Over-certification' -> 'Boutique Wilderness Reclamation' -> 'Ferngully' -> 'I think I'm trapped in one of those biodome thingies' -> 'More Ferngully' -> 'ALL THE MOSS' I get the feeling it's plumbed for irrigation or something. Or, it was one of those relaxing water-walls that somehow just got taken over by weaponized woods-minge and nobody said anything. I do like the moss wall, I just feel like it's going to go too far one day and eat the house. Effective-Disorder fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 07:08
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Effective-Disorder posted:Second one looks like step 1 in a 6 step plan that goes like: 'LEED Over-certification' -> 'Boutique Wilderness Reclamation' -> 'Ferngully' -> 'I think I'm trapped in one of those biodome thingies' -> 'More Ferngully' -> 'ALL THE MOSS' I'm concerned you may be right... 
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Apr 7, 2017 07:22
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Green walls are extremely my poo poo. And yeah, that one is definitely plumbed. Usually it's a drip setup with a timer, like you'd see in a flowerbed or something.
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Apr 7, 2017 07:34
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