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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm concerned you may be right... Too late, it's already taken over here. Welp, I guess we're going to evolve into a species of internet-using amphibians who seldom leave their bathtubs.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 07:39 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:20 |
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 07:44 |
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 08:14 |
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Thats just straight dedication right there.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 08:52 |
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No Structural Integrity was harmed in the making of this gif.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 09:36 |
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bEatmstrJ posted:Don't worry, I'm definitely getting an engineer. At this point my speculation into how it could be fixed is only for my own amusement and trying to guess at what will really be recommended based on my limited understanding of structural engineering. Engineering licenses are state by state, and while many have reciprocity, California is extra special thanks to earthquakes.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 11:22 |
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mon dieu! Evilreaver posted:Man, I missed KS's allegedly sweet avatar did anyone 'archive it before the evidence was erased'? Sorry i dont usually get so irked i actually spend money on dumbassitude so i forgot to take a picture *Historical recreation based on a true story* If you do something i feel is unsafe I will report you to the authorities, Its not creepy because I AM THE LAW.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 12:17 |
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10/10
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 12:27 |
bEatmstrJ I'm going to ask the obvious question here: Can your renovation lose the bathtub and you still be happy?
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 13:05 |
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brugroffil posted:Engineering licenses are state by state, and while many have reciprocity, California is extra special thanks to earthquakes. This. California and Florida that I know of have stricter reciprocity rules. CA has special earthquake exams and Florida has hurricane requirements. I've heard Hawaii just adopted Miami-Dade and Florida's product approval guidelines and doesn't know what is going on. My understanding also is that Los Angeles has it's own special snowflake requirement above and beyond the CA ones. My advice... get off Yelp and Craigslist. Find your local Builders Association. You can likely call them up and get a list of contractors that you'll be way more satisfied with. If a contractor doesn't care about pissing others off they won't be a part of an association. Chances are if they can't be bothered with you they're probably annoying their subs which doesn't go well if you're in an association together to promote local construction. And yes, there's going to be more than one way to engineer out of this problem.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 13:25 |
WrenP-Complete posted:And this moss wall! This is one of those things that I look at and go "Holy poo poo that's dope I'm doing that in my bathroom" but then I remember that I live in a normal middle-class home on a cul-de-sac and not a Tom Cruise science fiction movie and if I made one of my walls out of moss I would never be able to make the rest of my house look future-ey enough to match it.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 13:52 |
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xwing posted:This. California and Florida that I know of have stricter reciprocity rules. CA has special earthquake exams and Florida has hurricane requirements. I've heard Hawaii just adopted Miami-Dade and Florida's product approval guidelines and doesn't know what is going on. My understanding also is that Los Angeles has it's own special snowflake requirement above and beyond the CA ones. You can try Angie's List too since it's free now.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:03 |
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I wouldn't bother writing the beam manufacturers. They won't want to take on the liability of telling you to do something that might go wrong. You'll either get ghosted or get some boilerplate about them not being to help without a contract or some other CYA poo poo.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:09 |
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brugroffil posted:You can try Angie's List too since it's free now. I didn't know that! What's the biz model now? Ads?
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:12 |
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Burt Sexual posted:I didn't know that! What's the biz model now? Ads? Free basic membership, premium upgrades for warranties or something. They were hemorrhaging their userbase over the past few years and brought in a new guy to try out something different.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:20 |
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Burt Sexual posted:That's actually not a bad idea, but they'll say tear our the floor. 😟 It's better to tear out the floor, you will just have to remove the wall you put in and the sink but you will have to put in new floor joists next to the ones you hosed up. There is no point in trying to hack a half-assed solution at this point. The biggest problem is not that maybe it will fail but if your insurance gets wind of this they will drop you like a bathtub falling through a compromised floor.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:28 |
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Better than anyone knew to hope for. Beet Wagon posted:This is one of those things that I look at and go "Holy poo poo that's dope I'm doing that in my bathroom" but then I remember that I live in a normal middle-class home on a cul-de-sac and not a Tom Cruise science fiction movie and if I made one of my walls out of moss I would never be able to make the rest of my house look future-ey enough to match it. I don't know, I think they probably can be in different styles. I believe in you.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:51 |
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Effective-Disorder posted:I just reread and rethought on this. This most likely will not solve your problem for the same reasons the scarf joint sister project won't. With all of the parts in between, there is no way to be sure of it without knowing anything about how these parts are intended to interact. Like I said, they did the math, knowing all that they know, when they published that technical bulletin, and as follows, they can only account for the cases outlined there. Ok sure thing Poindexter. Add glue to the screws and I'd bet a structural engineer other than Groverwould sign off on it no worries. Or you can bolt steel in the same way. Ahaha. Thread delivers once again.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 15:58 |
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Mr. Mambold posted:Ok sure thing Poindexter. Add glue to the screws and I'd bet a structural engineer other than Groverwould sign off on it no worries. Or you can bolt steel in the same way. I'm sure there's probably a solution that involves that. There are likely to be a lot of solutions, I wasn't throwing shade at you. All I'm saying is you can't take anything for granted with these hosed up joists, and a structural engineer is needed anyway.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 16:24 |
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brugroffil posted:Engineering licenses are state by state, and while many have reciprocity, California is extra special thanks to Original bathroom was already pretty awesome, aside from the tile.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 16:26 |
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Howdy! I lurk a lot over here in DIY, and was super curious about your predicament. Before we get started, I am a mechanical and electrical (not civil/structural/architectural) engineer, and I do not have a PE license. Therefore: DO NOT USE ANY OF THESE VERY BASIC AND GENERALIZED ENGINEERING CALCULATIONS AND PROBABLY WRONG SOLUTIONS TO MAKE ANY SORT OF DECISION ON YOUR GROVERBATH Anywho. Exactly how badly did you gently caress up? Engineered I-beams are made using dimensional lumber as the flange sections, with some thin particle board as webbing. These individual components suck at compressive loading in the directions they're sitting in, but they have been engineered in a very important cross-sectional configuration so that the sum of the parts come out much better for use as joists. Your funny picture shows the name "TJI 230" as your floor joist. Here's its cross-sectional dimensions: Let's go for broke and assume a 16" OAH. I had to google the density conversion for like, normal softwood density, because engineers are very bad at basic math: Using this cool I-beam cross-section calculator because engineers are very bad at basic math: Okay so there's your normal cross-sectional wondercalcs. With these random numbers you can calculate a bunch of stuff like how many Clevelands you can fit in the bathtub on top of them. With cutting off the top dimensional lumber piece to plop in your awesome black mold infinity tub flush with the floor despite every picture I see of them having a raised floor, you have effectively made all 14' of your engineered I beam an inverted engineered T beam. Generally speaking, the remaining top flange is now useless for compressive loads (see infinity tub). Here's that good poo poo: Note you reduced your second moment of area to 40% of its original value ahahahaha With a 1000 lbf load on one beam in the center, before cutting: After cutting: So you doubled your deflection, and increased the stress on each beam by about 2.3x. This "hosed factor" scales for whatever load you want to put on it! Honestly I thought it'd be much worse. At any rate, hopefully the safety factor on those beams Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 7, 2017 |
# ? Apr 7, 2017 16:27 |
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oof engineering calculations please
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 16:32 |
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I'm a therapist and researcher/data scientist, I took physics in college but don't remember it. Can someone please explain what second moment means? And sheer vs compression sounds familiar but I also don't remember that part. Equations are fine! I figure if I don't know, other people don't either, that's why I'm asking itt rather than googling.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:24 |
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I don't think I've ever seen engineering icing on a dogpile before.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:25 |
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm a therapist and researcher/data scientist, I took physics in college but don't remember it. Can someone please explain what second moment means? I graduated with a BSCE in Structural Engineering. The first moment is when you say "Oh poo poo! The second moment is when you break your spine.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:34 |
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Neutrino posted:I graduated with a BSCE in Structural Engineering. The first moment is when you say "Oh poo poo! The second moment is when you break your spine. Great, I wrote that down. Thank you.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:35 |
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm a therapist and researcher/data scientist, I took physics in college but don't remember it. Can someone please explain what second moment means? And sheer vs compression sounds familiar but I also don't remember that part. Equations are fine! I figure if I don't know, other people don't either, that's why I'm asking itt rather than googling. This diagram using bones actually seems like a pretty good explanation When you load a beam, it's going to deflect some amount. The top of the beam will be in compression while the bottom is in tension. I forget what the more abstract definition of second moment is, but it's symbol is "I" and it's critical for lots of beam calculations. Higher means stiffer/more resistant to bending.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:35 |
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm a therapist and researcher/data scientist, I took physics in college but don't remember it. Can someone please explain what second moment means? And sheer vs compression sounds familiar but I also don't remember that part. Equations are fine! I figure if I don't know, other people don't either, that's why I'm asking itt rather than googling. Whoops my bad. So the whole "you should only orient cinderblocks in X way" comes from the fact that an objects deflection and stress from a given force is not only based on the amount of the object and the distance from where the object is fixed, but also its shape. "Second moment of area" or "area moment of inertia" and using the resulting value in a stress calculation is a great way of quantifying the susceptibility of a particular shape to resist forces in a particular direction. Once you calculate the second moment of area of a shape in a particular direction, you can compare the strength of that shape versus other shapes. In the above post I punched numbers in to get the resistance to loads from a normal I beam and from his makeshift T beam. By eliminating the I beam (a super strong shape) and making it a T beam, he lowered those four beams' resistance to gravity loads to 40% of what they used to be. Compression loads are loads due to pushing against something. Tension is pulling. When you put a load on some object you put stress on that object. Hope that clears some stuff up! Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Apr 7, 2017 |
# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:39 |
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That's a pretty sweet masturbation diagram
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:40 |
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Adiabatic posted:Howdy!
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:46 |
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Adiabatic posted:Compression loads are loads due to pushing against something. Tension is pulling. When you put a load on some object you put stress on that object. I don't think you are wrong. The diagram merely shows the direction shearing forces would come from and how they relate to one another. Specifically, a slight offset that causes strain rather than rotation. You could theoretically shear at all kinds of angles, I believe. Definition of noun:a strain in the structure of a substance produced by pressure, when its layers are laterally shifted in relation to each other. Definition of verb:break off or cause to break off, owing to a structural strain. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 7, 2017 |
# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:49 |
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Nevvy Z posted:I don't think you are wrong. The diagram merely shows the direction shearing forces would come from and how they relate to one another. Specifically, a slight offset that causes strain rather than rotation. You could theoretically shear at all kinds of angles, I believe. I just looked it up and you're right, it's both apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_stress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shearing_%28physics%29
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:54 |
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The first warning sign should've been when he couldn't even remove the cabinet to give to the craigslist guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIDL0R0mQfo socketwrencher posted:
Holy poo poo got any sevens fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Apr 7, 2017 |
# ? Apr 7, 2017 17:58 |
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I am learning so much from this thread! Most importantly, I have learned that if I ever own a home I should not touch a drat thing re: remodeling unless I talk to at least one coworker (most of my coworkers are architects/engineers).
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 18:41 |
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Yawgmoth posted:I am learning so much from this thread! Most importantly, I have learned that if I ever own a home I should not touch a drat thing re: remodeling unless I talk to at least one coworker (most of my coworkers are architects/engineers). Or if youre going to do anything bigger than hanging a paper towel holder hire a professional.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 18:52 |
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You can totally do it yourself, just be sure to research the poo poo out of your local codes. There's quick reference books online and they cost like $15 for each discipline. It's important to take a positive attitude with building code because you bet your rear end it's there for a very practical and important reason. I personally find it fun to figure out why, but that bit's not necessary as long as you follow them to the letter.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 18:59 |
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Adiabatic posted:You can totally do it yourself, just be sure to research the poo poo out of your local codes. There's quick reference books online and they cost like $15 for each discipline. It's important to take a positive attitude with building code because you bet your rear end it's there for a very practical and important reason. I personally find it fun to figure out why, but that bit's not necessary as long as you follow them to the letter. what the lurking mod says, just dont gently caress with electrical, or plumbing unless you have researched the poo poo out of what you are doing and maybe ask for help from a pro or at least one to bounce your grand vision off of.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 19:02 |
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Adiabatic posted:Compression loads are loads due to pushing against something. Tension is pulling. When you put a load on some object you put stress on that object. I'd like to add, when thinking about how That's the point of I-beams whether steel or engineered wood, the upper and lower flanges are holding the forces involved. Maximum strength with minimal material. e: for clarity you pedants. :p angryrobots fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Apr 7, 2017 |
# ? Apr 7, 2017 19:18 |
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angryrobots posted:I'd like to add, when thinking about how any beam is loaded, the upper part of the beam is in compression, and the lower part is in tension (in this case, load being in the same direction as gravity). Not always true... over a load bearing wall in the middle of a house a beam would be in in tension at the top. Your statement is true for the simplest uniform loading supported at two ends. A cantilever is another case it wouldn't have the loading you describe. That's why beams are usually symmetrical in the y-axis because it works the same in both directions.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 19:33 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:20 |
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brugroffil posted:
You can think of second moment of area as a measure of how far from the centroid (or any arbitrary axis I guess?) most of the area is. It's basically directly proportional to a given shape's resistance to bending along a certain axis, and it is the mathematical basis for why an I-beam is stronger than a solid bar of the same cross-sectional area.
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# ? Apr 7, 2017 19:37 |