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Sir Kodiak posted:I get that, but imagine that episode of Voyager had started with a couple people discussing how Neelix isn't actually sentient, that the merging wasn't an accident, and that the episode didn't devote half its running time to discussing the ethics of there no longer being a Neelix but instead breezed right past it and now there was just this new character going forward. Then that episode would be objectively correct.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:50
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The one big oddity in the MCU that sticks out to me is the character arc of Peter Quill, Star-Lord. He starts out as a self-centred manchild living out the fantasy of being a space adventurer, gets mocked for his pretensions... and the universe arranges it so that he gets to be a real space hero without any change or real sacrifice on his part. It's framed as a vindication of his fantasy, and that he goes around with his childhood nickname as his superhero identity presented as a heart-warming development. It's really bizarre development, and it makes the generally adequate GotG interesting, if not in a good way. So, this didn't get any traction in BSS so you're gonna give it a shot here, huh? Good luck.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:51
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parallelodad posted:Then that episode would be objectively correct. Actually, yeah, true. So, also, imagine Tuvix wasn't a way better character than the ones he replaced.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:53
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Phylodox posted:So, this didn't get any traction in BSS so you're gonna give it a shot here, huh? Good luck. Well, it is true. It's one of the interestingly odd parts of the MCU. They play Peter Quill as a Zapp Brannigan/Captain Qwark type character but bungle it by not going through all the way with it, leading to a very odd moral in the end. e: Especially when Star-Lord's character in the comics was ultimately a rather adult character who desperately wanted to be a hero out of a saviour complex, but would win a bitter victory and could screw himself over in his desperation. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 18:55
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The extremis henchmen are also disabled war veterans, and they're depicted as actively sadistic killers engaged in a criminal conspiracy. See here, for example. Can't watch the clip as I'm on my phone, but I don't remember anything from the movie that demonizes crippled vets more than, say, the Universal Soldiers movies do. Would you say JCVD or Dolph Lundgren are evil in those?
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Apr 7, 2017 19:03
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Grendels Dad posted:Can't watch the clip as I'm on my phone, but I don't remember anything from the movie that demonizes crippled vets The crippled war vets are presented quite literally as demonic. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 19:06
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parallelodad posted:Let me put it in words you will understand. The same way the Gogeta is neither Goku or Vegeta. Sorry I only understand analogies in car or Star Wars EU
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Apr 7, 2017 19:07
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Vision is not Jarvis in the same way Vision is neither Wonder Man nor the OG Human Torch.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The crippled war vets are presented quite literally as demonic. I remember that. Turns out Guy Pearce made them that way.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:10
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parallelodad posted:I took it that Vision is not Jarvis the same way Tuvix isn't Tuvok or Neelix. i looked up this episode and, wow, Janeway is a monster.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:13
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Grendels Dad posted:I remember that. Turns out Guy Pearce made them that way. The crippled war vets are depicted as sadists who gleefully kill and hurt others and revel in their power. They smile when about to kill and enjoy the helplessness of their prey. They're killing people and trying to usurp the US government out of their own free will. There is no attempt to help them, their death is necessary. This isn't difficult. 
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Apr 7, 2017 19:15
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The crippled war vets are depicted as sadists who gleefully kill and hurt others and revel in their power. They smile when about to kill and enjoy the helplessness of their prey. They're killing people and trying to usurp the US government out of their own free will. There is no attempt to help them, their death is necessary. ... after Guy Pearce worked them over. Could there be a connection???
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Apr 7, 2017 19:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The few interesting parts of the MCU are the oddities, the incomplete thoughts, and the weird implications that are ignored - like how the villains of Iron Man 3 are disabled people, including war veterans injured in the line of duty. They are depicted as evil and inhuman. That Homecoming will apparently feature working-class people whose livelihoods are threatened as despicable villains really pales in comparison to that. Wait, what? It's worse to make ex-military security contractors villains than working class people in danger of losing their jobs?
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Apr 7, 2017 19:20
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So wait are you saying Guy Pearce brainwashed them?
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Apr 7, 2017 19:21
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Grendels Dad posted:... after Guy Pearce worked them over. Could there be a connection??? You know how every time BravestOfTheLamps pops up there are a bunch of people saying "Don't engage!" From experience, I'm telling you there's a reason.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:22
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Grendels Dad posted:... after Guy Pearce worked them over. Could there be a connection??? So in your interpretation Pierce brainwashed them/drove them crazy with Extremis and so they're nor responsible for their actions. So your argument is that the heroes aren't killing evil disabled war veterans, they're killing insane disabled war veterans. You do realize that's not any better, right? Sir Kodiak posted:Wait, what? It's worse to make ex-military security contractors villains than working class people in danger of losing their jobs? "Disabled people are evil." e: Wasn't there a moment in the movie where a character having an amputee daughter shows to the audience that he's working with the villains? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 19:24
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"Disabled people are evil." Disabled people are still real human beings, so, yes, they are as capable of evil as anyone else.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:27
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Steve Yun posted:Sorry I only understand analogies in car or Star Wars EU Luuke, although an exact genetic clone of Luke Skywalker who was infused with midiclorians at a level exactly the same as Luke Skywalker, is not actually Luke Skywalker despite being exactly like him both genetically and in the eyes of the force.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:43
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I think what Bravest is trying to say is that while the veterans were brainwashed, they still were portrayed as evil monsters with no agency. Bravest is calling out IM3's unintentional implications regarding mental illness. I don't necessarily agree, but that's how I'm interpreting their argument.
Equeen fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 19:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Wasn't there a moment in the movie where a character having an amputee daughter shows to the audience that he's working with the villains? I think she may be in a wheelchair, not an amputee. But, yes, the villain uses his ability to heal injuries to get leverage over people. Nobody will disagree that this makes the villain a bad guy.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:49
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Sir Kodiak posted:I think she may be in a wheelchair, not an amputee. But, yes, the villain uses his ability to heal injuries to get leverage over people. Nobody will disagree that this makes the villain a bad guy. I think the procedure is addictive as well, at least the first explodee was coded as an addict when he blew up.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:53
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- The henchmen were not brainwashed. They were in on the plan because they felt that they were abandoned by the U.S. Government and needed access to a constant supply of Extremis from Killian to cure their wounds. They do say that the Extremis is basically like hyper-adrenaline in high doses and makes people more aggressive, though. - The henchmen do not know about the exploding part when they sign up. - The Extremis that Killian developed is not stable. They need more and more of the serum to maintain and it is addictive. Killian says that 90% of the people who use it end up exploding because they can't stop and either overdose or develop a tolerance that is so high that a standard dose will make them explode. - Once people become addicts or non-functional, Killian uses their addiction to make them into a bomb (come to x location and I'll give you your fix) that can't be traced because he needs the U.S. to send out Iron Patriot to a location that he fakes so he can steal the suit. - The VP is in on this plan because he has a disabled daughter and he resents the President. - Killian's whole motif is deception / false promises. (He looks like a movie star after his previous look, he was deceived by Tony in 1999 after he promised to meet him on the roof, he tricks the world about the terrorist attacks, "I am the Mandarin," he deceives the soldiers about the nature of their treatment, he plays into their feeling that they were deceived by the U.S. Government and made a false promise about being treated for their service, tells the VP that he can cure his daughter even though he hasn't perfected the serum yet, and he covers up his tattoo.) Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 19:58
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Equeen posted:I think what Bravest is trying to say is that while the veterans were brainwashed, they still were portrayed as evil monsters with no agency. Bravest is calling out IM3's unintentional implications regarding mental illness. I don't necessarily agree, but that's how I'm interpreting their argument. Yeah, picking at these odd ends of the MCU is really the only way to stay sane after a while. Like with IM3 you can also note that it's a legit Truther movie. Grendels Dad posted:I think the procedure is addictive as well, at least the first explodee was coded as an addict when he blew up. Now you're dragging drug addicts into this. Does your shamelessness know no bounds? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 7, 2017 19:59
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Grendels Dad posted:I think the procedure is addictive as well, at least the first explodee was coded as an addict when he blew up. At least for me, there being a person on the meds who wasn't one of Killian's soldiers, who appeared to just be a homeless man or something, makes the ones who signed up to run around murdering people a lot less sympathetic. That said, I certainly appreciate that the MCU's willingness to slaughter armies of soldiers without thought is a troubling through-line.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:59
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
Homeless, pretty sure they're homeless too.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:05
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The one big oddity in the MCU that sticks out to me is the character arc of Peter Quill, Star-Lord. He starts out as a self-centred manchild living out the fantasy of being a space adventurer, gets mocked for his pretensions... and the universe arranges it so that he gets to be a real space hero without any change or real sacrifice on his part. It's framed as a vindication of his fantasy, and that he goes around with his childhood nickname as his superhero identity presented as a heart-warming development. It's really bizarre development, and it makes the generally adequate GotG interesting, if not in a good way. It turns out his dad is Kurt Russell. Of course the Universe is going arrange things to work out for him. Grendels Dad posted:Can't watch the clip as I'm on my phone, but I don't remember anything from the movie that demonizes crippled vets more than, say, the Universal Soldiers movies do. Would you say JCVD or Dolph Lundgren are evil in those? It's been a super, super long time since I watched any of those movies, but I'm pretty sure that, yes, Dolph Lundgren is evil as hell in those. I mean the evil government/corporate entity that makes the zombie soldier drones is more evil, but Dolph is still pretty evil on his own. hiddenriverninja posted:i looked up this episode and, wow, Janeway is a monster. That's the take away of any episode of Voyager, no need to look up a specific one, silly.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:31
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FilthyImp posted:Civil War is interesting 
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Apr 7, 2017 21:12
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Cute
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Apr 7, 2017 21:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That's the thing, though. last page and all but actually Canada did "snub" Hollywood in a way. A lot of our provincial governments decided to do away with their film tax credits and as a result a lot of film companies decided to take their location shooting to cheaper venues. I don't know what this means for actual Canadian acting talent but since they're not filming in as many of our cities anymore that would probably make it a little more difficult for your average Canadian to get noticed.
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Apr 7, 2017 22:17
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well why not posted:Goddamn people are forigving of the MCU. Every week someone finds a new way to be overly generous with praise towards these downright stupid, ugly warmongering films. I've enjoyed the hell out of all of them. Just because they don't run to your taste doesn't mean that they're not appreciated.
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Apr 7, 2017 22:18
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Heresy! Destroy it! *gets beaten up by Russel Crowe*
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Apr 7, 2017 22:22
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Aces High posted:last page and all but actually Canada did "snub" Hollywood in a way. A lot of our provincial governments decided to do away with their film tax credits and as a result a lot of film companies decided to take their location shooting to cheaper venues. I don't know what this means for actual Canadian acting talent but since they're not filming in as many of our cities anymore that would probably make it a little more difficult for your average Canadian to get noticed. Give that hyper competent fucker a comic book movie franchise so he finally understands why he's the new Nolan xavier dolan's Arrival would've been better anyways
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Apr 7, 2017 22:27
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Does this mean that it's finally okay to not be super in love with Denis Villeneuve Xavier Dolan? Good god.
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Apr 7, 2017 23:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Xavier Dolan? Good god. other than David and Son Cronenberg and The Guy Who Directed Barbarian Invasions but I bet that's not his real name
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Apr 7, 2017 23:24
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Atom Egoyan?
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Apr 7, 2017 23:25
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Punkin Spunkin posted:sorry he's the only other Canadian director I can name I don't care if you don't like Villenueve, but claiming that Xavier Dolan is better is obvious foolishness.
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Apr 7, 2017 23:27
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Guys,Guys......... Man of steel is boring
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Apr 7, 2017 23:44
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't care if you don't like Villenueve, but claiming that Xavier Dolan is better is obvious foolishness.
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Apr 7, 2017 23:56
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Wronk. To the guy above you.
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Apr 7, 2017 23:56
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Punkin Spunkin posted:and I like being blown. hell, same
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Apr 7, 2017 23:59
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