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Given that we [spolier]lost a Gripen this mission[/spoiler] and given that we have a fair amount of cash on hand, I think we need to consider another aircraft buy. Here are the things we should look for in an aircraft: 1. Carries guided weapons. The GBU-12 have been rockstars on every mission. Meanwhile, the RB 60's rockets have done virtually nothing. We literally would have made more money if we'd let the Saabs sit on the runway all day. 2. Multi-role. So far, we've had CAS, strike, anti-shipping, and air-to-air missions thrown our way. We can't afford more one-trick ponies. 3. Similar to our current inventory. This makes our logistics, maintenance, etc. easier and saves us money. I propose that we sell the RB 60s and buy new aircraft. We currently have $117,560,660 in the bank and can make $3,600,000 if we sell off the RB 60s. That gives us enough money to make a sizable aircraft buy. That's enough to give the RB 60 drivers new birds and get the reserve goons new aircraft. We can also see what the Ukrainian museum's inventory holds. Here's my preferences for procurement. We can put our man Jack on the case. 1. Modern 4th and 4.5th-generation strike fighters. My preferences are for Gripens or F-16s. If that fails: F/A-18s, FA-50s (upgraded with AIM-120s) 2. Modernized 3.5th Generation fighters. Since we already have Phantoms: Greek F-4Es, Turkish F-4E Terminators, Israeli F-4E Kurnass, German F-4Fs. 3. Electronic warfare and SEAD aircraft: EA-6B Prowlers, Tornado ECR 4. Light attack. These are good options: A-7 Corsair II (http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/4237/), Jaguar (http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/1290/), AMX (http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/947/) and Hawk 209 (http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/4087/) Vando posted:When building mission plans in future we should probably start adding instructions on prioritising targets/splitting salvos if we're on a turkeyshoot like this. The number of rockets bouncing off tanks and strings of 4 bombs atomising platoon remnants was painful to watch play out. Agreed. We should tighten up the weapons release orders next time. Dropping four bombs on a platoon of tanks does make sense (one bomb per tank, more or less), but the number of bombs we spent on soft targets was sometimes kinda dumb. Yooper, let me just say that I'm loving the production values of this LP. There are lots of really great little touches that set this LP above and beyond. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 16:05
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What nailed me btw? I'm on a phone so can't read the log. Was it a gun kill? R-60?
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Apr 8, 2017 16:16
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What's the selling point for light attack vs. just letting some multirole airframe drop a bomb? Flight hour cost? e: yeah the little touches about this LP are blowing my mind left and right e: wanna point out that beyond survivability a faster aircraft also means less time in transit when going home for rearm. aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 16:21
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Dandywalken posted:What nailed me btw? I'm on a phone so can't read the log. Was it a gun kill? R-60? A Python 3, apparently.
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Apr 8, 2017 16:28
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Oi vey!
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Apr 8, 2017 16:33
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Dandywalken posted:What nailed me btw? I'm on a phone so can't read the log. Was it a gun kill? R-60? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-8_(missile) One of these got fired into you from really close range. aphid_licker posted:What's the selling point for light attack vs. just letting some multirole airframe drop a bomb? Flight hour cost? Cheaper to buy and cheaper to operate. It also gives goons more pilot slots.
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Apr 8, 2017 16:33
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Vando posted:When building mission plans in future we should probably start adding instructions on prioritising targets/splitting salvos if we're on a turkeyshoot like this. The number of rockets bouncing off tanks and strings of 4 bombs atomising platoon remnants was painful to watch play out. We have two ground strike missions available. One is the Ground Strike Patrol, the other is a Land Strike. With the patrol I define an area and the aircraft launch ordnance at poo poo they see. The Land Strike needs defined targets and once those are gone the mission is complete. In hindsight I should have used the Land Strike and micromanaged it. I guess you could RP it and say we had frantic radio calls from the volunteers in need of urgent CAS. I'll have to watch our ordnance release rates too. The RB15's go out depending on ship size. So I set that to 1 default so we wouldn't launch both at one ship. This worked really well. Unfortunately I didn't do that with the Gripen's and they launched two meteors at a forty year old fighter while another was just a few kilometers behind it. I'm not sure how the AI decides on targets, or even release range. Some of the ranges might have had to do with the crazy altitude variances. Bacarruda posted:We can also see what the Ukrainian museum's inventory holds. Saros is locked up in some swank dacha with a bunch of the ex-colonels. Once he crawls out of the steam bath I'll be sure to get a list. Our aircraft is inbound today. Maintenance has cobbled the old poo poo together but we'll need to see how bad it is. aphid_licker posted:What's the selling point for light attack vs. just letting some multirole airframe drop a bomb? Flight hour cost? Flight cost mostly, and in some cases it's really low. A lot of the data I found online varied widely. F-16's for example range from $15k to $85k depending on the source. Universally the Gripens were very low, though an industry insider I talked with said it's not as low as Saab advertises. For us it's cost of acquisition and ordnance. We just won't have a week of sustained ops where the flight/maintenance costs would add up. I'm glad everyone is enjoying it all. There's not anywhere near the growing pains that I expected to have. Thanks for sticking with it while I work the bugs out.
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Apr 8, 2017 16:46
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Sucks we lost a Gripen but overall I'd say that was a success. We dealt a pretty big blow taking out the transports and frigate. I'm excited for our  to arrive and start raining down hell on the TLA.Fantastic job Yooper, this LP is a blast. If my pilot slot comes up and a Frogfoot is open please stick me into one.
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Apr 8, 2017 16:58
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https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/850724118228066304 editor in chief of areospace magazine just tweeted about this 
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Apr 8, 2017 16:59
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I do think we should keep about half of the SK-60s because they can still deliver rockets and we have the spare parts to keep them running as long as we want.
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Apr 8, 2017 17:04
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Baloogan posted:https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/850724118228066304 drat, this thing is getting legs in the best possible way. Triple A posted:I do think we should keep about half of the SK-60s because they can still deliver rockets and we have the spare parts to keep them running as long as we want. Maybe. Is there a way to increase the rocket accuracy? Have them let off fewer in one pass? Have them launch closer to the targets? Use the gunpods instead? The RB 60s just really haven't accomplished much in the last few mission. If we can sell off six Gripens and buy 4-5 aircraft that can drop GBU-12 or fire Mavericks, then that gives us a much more effective and combat-ready force.
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Apr 8, 2017 17:13
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Baloogan posted:https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/850724118228066304 Last time SA leaked into IRL we got accused of being a front for the CIA. I'm not sure us plotting to bump over third world countries is going to help 😅
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Apr 8, 2017 17:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:Last time SA leaked into IRL we got accused of being a front for the CIA. I should probably go back and edit my proposal of buying a UN branded helicopter for our ground troops...
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Apr 8, 2017 17:20
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They'll come here and read about our war crimes and they will like it 
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Apr 8, 2017 17:29
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That was a good mission. The loss was a same but I think a little bit more micro managing is in order like you said. In the future I think we should follow the suggestion of Bacarruda plus maybe a dedicated recon plane. I know I stress a lot about it but those planes realy help finding those mobile troops like tank platoons.
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Apr 8, 2017 17:38
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Dropping all the bombs at once is good when you don't want to stick around, but we had no real threat in the CAS mission so single/double release and waiting for BDA would have been preferable. Agree, we can keep using the rocket pods but they need to be explicitly aimed at softer targets. All those sea-skimming planes were very strange. I also saw our Meteor go to 100k feet, is that right?
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Apr 8, 2017 18:12
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rchandra posted:All those sea-skimming planes were very strange. I also saw our Meteor go to 100k feet, is that right? It dreamed of becoming a meteoroid
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Apr 8, 2017 18:21
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Bacarruda posted:If we can sell off six Gripens and buy 4-5 aircraft that can drop GBU-12 or fire Mavericks, then that gives us a much more effective and combat-ready force. I assume you meant not-gripens? Otherwise we're gonna have a problem. Also, this last mission is basically what the SDB was built for. We should make getting those a priority. Hopefully we're just missing a setting somewhere and we can get the AI to use them more intelligently, because dropping 8 SDBs on one target is just as dumb as dropping 4 GBUs on one target. I'll also echo a few other people, we should do more recon before launching these strikes. Doesn't matter to much to me how we do it, but we don't want strike craft to be the ones to find AAA.
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Apr 8, 2017 18:21
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I can absolutely run a recon unit ahead of a bombing run and add targets as we see them. About all I need is a priority list for targets. When I do the opfor stuff I usually set it to fire a mission only when a threat is recognized. So if you guys route the recon through canyons or between mountains at low altitude its likely to not trigger stuff. Once we finish up the museum buy I'll let you guys debate the SK60s, which I assume bac is referring to. About the only reason I added them originally was to get more goons in the air and to add some flair. I totally expected them to die in a terrible fire.
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Apr 8, 2017 18:43
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That was great; good job Yooper! If we could pick up more Frogfeet, now that we have the stupid things, or Phantoms that would be for the best to keep our logistics simple and allow us to keep our aircraft grouped during operations. Clearly we need more precision weapons, and to dump those Sk60s as soon as possible. Not sure more 4.5th gen fighters would be a good buy for us at this point, given how expensive they are. We should hold off replacing our lost Gripen until we have more of a warchest; the new F-4s and Su-25s will allow us to free up more Gripens for a dedicated AAW role.
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Apr 8, 2017 18:48
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How is this thread not gold yet?
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Apr 8, 2017 18:49
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CBJamo posted:I assume you meant not-gripens? Otherwise we're gonna have a problem. Also, this last mission is basically what the SDB was built for. We should make getting those a priority. Hopefully we're just missing a setting somewhere and we can get the AI to use them more intelligently, because dropping 8 SDBs on one target is just as dumb as dropping 4 GBUs on one target. AHHHHHHH. I meant sell off the RB 60 Saabs. Not the Gripens. Regarding recon, we just bought has the two German UAVs. So we are getting some recon capability with the last two. And If we're doing a really seriou strike, we can send one of the Grpeins off with a photo pod to do recon work. It'll drive up costs a little, but I do agree that good recon can be worthwhile. Might be worth seeing if someone like the Russians or Indians are willing to see us satellite recon data.
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Apr 8, 2017 18:52
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Bacarruda posted:AHHHHHHH. I meant sell off the RB 60 Saabs. Not the Gripens. Had we hired Zack we'd have satellite Intel. He's a live below the radar kind of guy, at least when he's not at FurCON. For the current theater, no satellite Intel.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:01
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Are we still taking reserve pilots? I'll join as a fighter or multirole pilot callsign Dreamsicle Unilever funds not guaranteed.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:14
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It's a shame about the Gripen; honestly if any of our birds were going to go down I thought it'd be the SK60Bs. But I have a feeling we were lucky as hell not to lose anyone else considering what happened post-shipping strike. And it's stating the obvious at this point, but I think we're not going to be welcome in China or Myanmar, either... chitoryu12 posted:Hey my SK60 didn't suck! I think Bandit and myself scored the most reliable rocket hits of any in the air on that mission. Obviously we're the sharpshooters among the CAS pilots.  Incidentally if we survive until we retire, we should form a soft rock band, possibly with other guys who flew the strike birds. Baloogan posted:https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/850724118228066304  Wow, I never expected that.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:18
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Yooper, can we claim we were enforcing a sanction on Myanmar for shooting the airliner? Can't have those people getting extra materiel.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:04
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rchandra posted:I also saw our Meteor go to 100k feet, is that right? CMANO isn't super rigorous about modeling specific lofting altitudes, as far as I know, but yes, it's approximately right. When launched at longer ranges, modern air-to-air missiles fly a parabolic trajectory so that they can spend more time in the thin, less draggy upper atmosphere before diving down onto their targets.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:06
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I mean, they DID shoot down the 747 first. Being the good and just world citizens we are, we proactively sanctioned them by denying arms imports. Hired Goons did nothing wrong.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:07
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  This is the current theater map. Our strikes hit the TLA forces quite hard. They were ill equipped to begin with and after we took out what little armor they had they're even worse equipped. It doesn't mean we can't expect man portable weapons, but the threat of ZSU's and the like is gone. Fortunately this has allowed the "Volunteers" to focus exclusively on the incoming Chinese. Unfortunately they're now able to focus more effort on our side since the TLA is less of a threat. Nyingchi Airfield is operating again and this is allowing the "Volunteers" to bring in heavier weapons. So for the moment we've got some stalemate action going on.  One of our birds got a snapshot of a freighter just after the RB15F struck. A few moments later she went up like a WW1 battlecruiser. Because we knocked both out we can expect reduced Chinese radar coverage and no modern SAM systems. The frigate is icing on the cake really. The Chinese haven't even mentioned it anywhere. Silence. India is also quiet. Everyone knows what happened but no one wants to stick his dick into this blender. Only the Myanmar Government are scrambling. Seems the Chinese radar got a snip of our birds launching on the sea mission. So they phoned the Myanmar government and said to expect bombers. Well, that put all their SAM batteries on alarm and someone got an itchy trigger finger. That 747 they knocked down was a UAE budget airline. The UN gave them a whooping but not as bad as the Emirati UN ambassador who got into a literal fist fight with the Myanmar ambassador. What's it mean for us? The Myanmar Air Force is unlikely to stray into Indian Air Force but will make any effort to torch us should we get close. Jack, Our Man in Washington, passed along a decrypt from the NSA.  Bombers. Fighters. I think we can expect trouble. Luckily our shipment of aircraft is due to Calcutta any day. 2 BAE Hawk's, 2 F4E's, and 2 SU-25 Frogfoots. The drones are wrapped up in a box that some rear end in a top hat ran into with a forklift. Maintenance thinks they're fine though.  Here's the skinny on those museum pieces. They've got four of each. Some are pristine beauties that rolled off the assembly line and onto a museum. Other's are rat infested pieces of poo poo. We get all or nothing. There is a 50% chance that each is beautiful. If it's not we use it for parts and the next plane has a 75% chance of working out. Near as we can tell this is what the Ukrainian air force grounded once the hostilities wound down. SU-25 Ukrainian Model MIG-23MLD Flogger K MIG-29 Fulcrum C Do we want to buy these?  I'm expecting more intel from the Indians in regard to what came in up in Lhasa. More to come. Yooper fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 21:35
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$20 million for all of that? Hell yes!
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Apr 8, 2017 21:43
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Reserve Pilot Thunderlips says: for twenty mil? You bet your hat, brother! I can't wait to get into a Fulcrum, those things are sexy as hell.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:45
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Just remember. It might be this. Or this.  (I'll run an RNG and see how it shakes out)
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Apr 8, 2017 21:49
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Since the Chinese are gonna throw the kitchen sink at us, we need all the poo poo we can get. Fulcrums and Floggers have air to air capability, and can do limited double duty air to ground. The Frogfoots will nicely buffer the ones we already have. Edit: Those are the good version of the MiG-23, they can use R-73s. Don't think they can use R-27s, but they at least have R-23s, which are about the same as an AIM-7. The MiG-29s should have R-27s (along with R-73s). LostCosmonaut fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 21:51
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Nope The Floggers are trash at the best of times. I wouldn't take them if we got paid for them. They're of the same generation as early phantoms but worse in every possible way except the Russians remembered to give it a gun. Unless you want to deal with the joys of beam-riding missiles that couldn't hit the broad side of a 747, we don't want those piles of craps. The Frogfoots are very early ones, not the modernised variant we already acquired. They are limited to unguided rockets and bombs and laser guided missiles, except the laser is in the nose of the aircraft so the launch aircraft has to keep flying towards the target which, if they have air defences that aren't asleep lime the ones we were dealing with today, will ruin our day. These got pretty badly ravaged in Afghanistan during the '80s, and the threats have only gotten more serious since then. That leave us the Fulcrums. I like the Fulcrum, but I don't like beam-riders for air-to-air and that's all these old Fulcrum-Cs have for us. No precision air to ground ordinance is the icing on the cake for us. What should we buy instead? More Greek Phantoms and the Ivanov's Fencers is what I would suggest.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:53
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I vote no. It's a lot of cash for old planes that have a high chance of at least a few being so lovely that we just need to strip them for parts.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:57
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LostCosmonaut posted:Edit: Those are the good version of the MiG-23, they can use R-73s. That's all well and good, but they are reliant on the best that Soviet engineering could manage in the 1970s, the R-24 for long range , and if we can't get the Floggers to dogfighting range because they got massacred by semi-modern radar-guided missiles, it doesn't matter what we have for dogfighting. Edit: We've seen today just how dangerous even old short-range missiles are in a dogfight, so we want to avoid that as much as possible. The Floggers and Fulcrums are not really capable of keeping the planes far away enough to stop them being able to dogfight with us. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 21:58
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No. Save the money for better options later. Perhaps Our Man In Washington can get a deal with the Texas Air National Guard going or something?
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Apr 8, 2017 22:03
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Slaan posted:No. Save the money for better options later. Perhaps Our Man In Washington can get a deal with the Texas Air National Guard going or something? Broadstreet Ford, Lincoln, and Military has some great deals on US Surplus but due to FAR Regulations can only sell to customers in non-conflict zones. They'll even give us trade in on the SK60B's.
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Apr 8, 2017 22:07
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Nope, while Frogfoots are tempting we'll get 8 aircrafts that we'll end up selling forward at a loss. Besides, we didn't go for the big Ivanov offer so we won't have the spares to keep half of the drat things running. I say we call Broadstreet and ask what they have for us. A 30 minute chat isn't that expensive anyways, especially since long distance calls are cheaper than ever before.
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Apr 8, 2017 22:08
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Yooper posted:Broadstreet Ford, Lincoln, and Military has some great deals on US Surplus but due to FAR Regulations can only sell to customers in non-conflict zones. They'll even give us trade in on the SK60B's. Rent a PO Box in Panama
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Apr 8, 2017 22:10
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