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Prester Jane posted:
So you were entirely wrong. Got it! Citation: anyone who worked those campaigns, as I did. We turned away plenty of "grassroots" organizers and didn't decide to focus in a lot of areas. Others we welcomed in and focused in hard, just like the Clinton campaign. Also remember, you're not a "base" if you don't vote for a party in the first place. Try to get your brain around that fact. Senju Kannon posted:
You can literally only "credibly" tie Clinton to treason if you're in so deep with conservative media that you believe fox news is gospel. Do you even know what treason is? In America it's actually extremely difficult to commit treason, that's why less than 100 people in the history of this country have been convicted of it.
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Apr 9, 2017 02:44
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fishmech posted:So you were entirely wrong. Got it! Citing some personal anecdotes is in no way a citation in support of your statement that Obama frequently ignored the grass roots, nor does it support the implication you made that Obama ignored the grass roots to just as great if not greater an extent than Hillary did. To see you of all people try and use a vague personal anecdote as a citation is rather strange fishmech.
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Apr 9, 2017 02:48
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Prester Jane posted:Citing some personal anecdotes is in no way a citation in support of your statement that Obama frequently ignored the grass roots, nor does it support the implication you made that Obama ignored the grass roots to just as great if not greater an extent than Hillary did. Obama's campaign did ignore "the grassroots" all the time though? All sorts of grassroots organizations never get accepted by the national organizations that's just how elections work. Obama's campaign chose to work with the ones they thought would be most useful and to leave ones they didn't particularly care for alone, just like the Clinton campaign did. I feel like you overestimate how much grassroots organizations should be listened to because the Sanders campaign was often desperate to connect to them to try to shore up their failing campaign which refused to address all sorts of racial and general intersectional issues, a losing strategy in the Democratic party. Let's cut the crap,: when you complain that "the grassroots were ignored" you are saying "but she didn't do everything I wanted!".
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Apr 9, 2017 02:51
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Shbobdb posted:These are two of the dumbest statements I've read on SA. I don't doubt the emails are real, but I'd love to see the one that you think indicates Hillary rigged the primary against Bernie. Were there a lot of emails that showed DNC staffers preferred Hillary? Hell yes. Is that really a surprise given her long history in the party, in the then-current administration versus someone who literally joined the party for that election (and promptly left afterwards)? The DNC is made up of people who have political opinions. Shocking. https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...-about-clinton/
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Apr 9, 2017 02:53
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fishmech posted:You can literally only "credibly" tie Clinton to treason if you're in so deep with conservative media that you believe fox news is gospel. Do you even know what treason is? In America it's actually extremely difficult to commit treason, that's why less than 100 people in the history of this country have been convicted of it.
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Apr 9, 2017 02:55
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I don't doubt the emails are real, but I'd love to see the one that you think indicates Hillary rigged the primary against Bernie. the dnc asserted they were not making a choice of candidates while higherups mocked sanders in private, that's still bad
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Apr 9, 2017 02:57
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Senju Kannon posted:the russian interference was hacking the dnc e-mails. that's the interference. coordinated hacks that made clinton look bad by showing people who she did and said behind closed doors. That's not the extent of it. Specifically with regard to the gay community, Russia has become a broker for international hatred of gays. Here's a loooooong article which I find to be incomplete but accurate: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/repor...e-era-of-trump/ Russians were invited to CPAC and the National Prayer Breakfast. Russians give dark money to US groups struggling to keep the cashflow coming domestically. This sea change has been building for years. It was only a matter of time before Republicans cozy'd up to Russian influences.
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Apr 9, 2017 02:59
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LOL. The primary was a loving coronation. And Hillary couldn't even manage that without reverting to character assassination when a protest candidate ended up getting the tiniest bit of approval.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:00
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Senju Kannon posted:i used scare quotes because while it's bullshit it still reads well among Americans because a lie gets halfway around the world in the time it takes the truth to get its pants on, and republicans have always been better at messaging than democrats And the conservative media sphere could whip up a big scandal about anyone. They literally just lie all the time. For instance one of their current big lies is that transgender people need to be kept out of the bathroom to protect Are Womens. If you're looking for a candidate that Fox News won't make up scandals and even drive politically-laden investigations about, you're looking for the Democrats to literally just endorse the Republican candidate and give up. Senju Kannon posted:the dnc asserted they were not making a choice of candidates while higherups mocked sanders in private, that's still bad How is that bad? Are you really dumb enough to think literal political operatives can't have political opinions? Literally the only reason they have the jobs they have is they have strong political opinions.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:03
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Senju Kannon posted:the dnc asserted they were not making a choice of candidates while higherups mocked sanders in private, that's still bad But should hardly be unexpected, nor is it anything remotely like the rigging that is being alleged.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:06
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Shbobdb posted:LOL. The primary was a loving coronation. And Hillary couldn't even manage that without reverting to character assassination when a protest candidate ended up getting the tiniest bit of approval. remember when nobody voted in the primary and Hilary's two assistants h.e.r. ema-ils and benjamin ghazi personally kneecapped St. Bernard of sanders
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Apr 9, 2017 03:08
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fishmech posted:Obama's campaign did ignore "the grassroots" all the time though? All sorts of grassroots organizations never get accepted by the national organizations that's just how elections work. Obama's campaign chose to work with the ones they thought would be most useful and to leave ones they didn't particularly care for alone, just like the Clinton campaign did. I feel like you overestimate how much grassroots organizations should be listened to because the Sanders campaign was often desperate to connect to them to try to shore up their failing campaign which refused to address all sorts of racial and general intersectional issues, a losing strategy in the Democratic party. Politico: How Hillary Clinto lost Michigan - And blew the election. Politico posted:Everybody could see Hillary Clinton was cooked in Iowa. So when, a week-and-a-half out, the Service Employees International Union started hearing anxiety out of Michigan, union officials decided to reroute their volunteers, giving a desperate team on the ground around Detroit some hope. Funny fishmech you were not part of Hillary Clinton's campaign and are telling me one thing but all these people who actually were involved in the campaign are saying something very different. Even a former Obama campaign official agrees with the assertion that Clinto failed to run a proper ground game. Complaints like the ones in the article above are not resulting from a campaign with limited resources being unable to handle all the offers of help they received. Rather they are the result of a campaign that failed to do a remotely sufficient amount of outreach to the grassroots. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 03:09
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stone cold posted:remember when nobody voted in the primary and Hilary's two assistants h.e.r. ema-ils and benjamin ghazi personally kneecapped St. Bernard of sanders Swing and a miss!
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Apr 9, 2017 03:13
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fishmech posted:And the conservative media sphere could whip up a big scandal about anyone. They literally just lie all the time. For instance one of their current big lies is that transgender people need to be kept out of the bathroom to protect Are Womens. well I'd like party officials to not mock a popular candidate during a tense primary and his supporters. i don't think that can be considered the same as "having opinions" even if you can guarantee that hillary never got preferential treatment as a result and to quote a theologian, you can read the bible as supporting most things but you can create a german philosophy supporting anything. clinton had a lot of problems as a candidate and i think it's dumb to dismiss them as bernout or republican propaganda. the e-mails turned out to be important. would bernie have had that problem? they'd say "socialism" over and over but that's not the same as OUR TROOPS
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Apr 9, 2017 03:15
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Shbobdb posted:Swing and a miss! nobody cares what you have to say anyways you contrarian troll i liked your gimmick better when it was done competently by amergin
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Apr 9, 2017 03:19
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Senju Kannon posted:well I'd like party officials to not mock a popular candidate during a tense primary and his supporters. i don't think that can be considered the same as "having opinions" even if you can guarantee that hillary never got preferential treatment as a result They were doing it in a forum that they did not think would ever become public. If I were to go though someone's work emails I expect I would be able to see their candid opinions about customers or suppliers. Senju Kannon posted:and to quote a theologian, you can read the bible as supporting most things but you can create a german philosophy supporting anything. clinton had a lot of problems as a candidate and i think it's dumb to dismiss them as bernout or republican propaganda. the e-mails turned out to be important. would bernie have had that problem? they'd say "socialism" over and over but that's not the same as OUR TROOPS Nobody is saying Hillary Clinton had no problems. She had a lot. What people in this thread are literally saying is that anything positive she has done in her career should be forgotten, and she should become a morality tale about arrogance and ambition. I think that is a gross simplification, in every sense of the word. Edit: and yeah, the "DNC rigged the primary against Sanders, the proof is in the emails" is propaganda. Show me which email. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 03:22
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stone cold posted:nobody cares what you have to say anyways you contrarian troll U mad bro? Dismissing someone you disagree with as a "troll" is the laziest thing ever.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:23
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Prester Jane posted:Politico: How Hillary Clinto lost Michigan - And blew the election. Hmm, once again, you continue to ignore that certain grassroots organizations not being let in is totally normal. I get that you're ignorant, but you don't have to reiterate it. It's uncouth. The articles you keep posting say "in retrospect we didn't do quite enough". You however keep trying to push a narrative that none or barely any outreach happened, which is false. Senju Kannon posted:well I'd like party officials to not mock a popular candidate during a tense primary and his supporters. i don't think that can be considered the same as "having opinions" even if you can guarantee that hillary never got preferential treatment as a result That is frankly stupid. They didn't mock Sanders or his dumbass supporters in public, they did it entirely in private and you literally only heard about it because someone hacked into the DNC and published the results, to try to upset gullible drones like you. Expecting people to never express their personal opinions in private is basically ludicrous. The thing you complained about, "ties to Treason" was literally republican propaganda. It's literally something they made up out of whole cloth. "Hillary rigged the election!!" is even more so propaganda.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:24
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fishmech posted:Hmm, once again, you continue to ignore that certain grassroots organizations not being let in is totally normal. I get that you're ignorant, but you don't have to reiterate it. It's uncouth. Rerouting a bus full of campaign volounteers from a state you might win to one you know you are going to lose because you are trying to play some sort of psychout game with your opponent is quite different from not having a role for literally every grass roots organization that offers to help. Even the Obama campaign official called Hillary's ground game an "illusion". Also, passing over a few small organizations here and there is quite different from simply ignoring the heads of state level organizations and refusing to coordinate with them. Stop acting like this was only a few minor bit players here and there that were ignored instead of reality wherein the heads of large grass roots organizations are publicly saying they were ignored.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:34
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fishmech posted:Hmm, once again, you continue to ignore that certain grassroots organizations not being let in is totally normal. I get that you're ignorant, but you don't have to reiterate it. It's uncouth. i still voted for her so i don't know why you're calling me a gullible drone. though i gotta lol at you literally promoting liberal elitism that plays like poo poo in the south
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Apr 9, 2017 03:41
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Prester Jane posted:Rerouting a bus full of campaign volounteers from a state you might win to one you know you are going to lose because you are trying to play some sort of psychout game with your opponent is quite different from not having a role for literally every grass roots organization that offers to help. Even the Obama campaign official called Hillary's ground game an "illusion". It's also completely immaterial to the entire campaign, all sorts of little missteps happen frequently. You keep trying to draw false connections for some reason here, hmm. Again, all sorts of state level organizations didn't get the time of day from Obama's campaign either. Being a state level organization is seriously nothing special, every state has thousands of them that are on some level of friendly to Democrat goals, and usually hundreds more that are at least friendly on some policy issues. Usually the Clinton campaign simply wanted to work with other organizations, just like we who worked on the Obama campaigns would pick some and ignore others. Of course people were talking about how they were ignored, people also talked about being ignored with Obama too. Some of them right into my ears when I took calls at local offices, christ they were whiny! You know we also got a lot of complaints from Clinton supporters and organizations that had supported Clinton that they felt slighted too. Well of course, why wouldn't we give a bit more favor and trust to the people who were already working with us? If you felt that strongly about getting a good working relationship with us maybe they shouldn't have picked Clinton at the start, just like organizations that had been vociferously for Sanders (and still couldn't help him win, lmao) maybe shouldn't have been shrieking about how Clinton was a shill before they came demanding access to her campaign? You're frankly pretty naive for how many words you've spat out about politics. Senju Kannon posted:i still voted for her so i don't know why you're calling me a gullible drone. Because you literally said she can be tied to treason and that it was bad that DNC staffers would dare to talk about what candidates they supported in private.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:46
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Someone remind me how many times we have to retry the election in every thread for the ritual to be complete and our timeline to switch to one where the worst thing didn't happen? Hillary did things right and did things wrong, and critically examining her campaign hopefully with provide insight on what can be later on. But that's not what this is at all. It's just a cathartic shitfest for anti-Hillary types where they can get their I-told-you-sos in and kick that evil bitch a few more times for daring to exist in a world that deeply hates women who seek power. Senju Kannon posted:i still voted for her so i don't know why you're calling me a gullible drone. though i gotta lol at you literally promoting liberal elitism that plays like poo poo in the south Go gently caress yourself. You any anyone else who has the loving nerve to use the South as your example of Dem losses because poor white just feel so alienated. there wolf fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 03:49
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there wolf posted:Someone remind me how many times we have to retry the election in every thread for the ritual to be complete and our timeline to switch to one where the worst thing didn't happen? and for hillary shills to insist she has done nothing wrong, ever, and that they know this
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Apr 9, 2017 03:50
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Losing the presidency to tromp is a crime with strict liability
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Apr 9, 2017 03:56
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Senju Kannon posted:and for hillary shills to insist she has done nothing wrong, ever, and that they know this Except literally no one in this thread is doing that.
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Apr 9, 2017 04:13
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no one in this thread is calling hillary an uppity bitch, either
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Apr 9, 2017 04:18
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Senju Kannon posted:no one in this thread is calling hillary an uppity bitch, either Some where criticizing her ambition and arrogance to be president which translate to "uppity".
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Apr 9, 2017 04:27
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I mean she didn't take the winner seriously as a threat that seems textbook arrogance to me
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Apr 9, 2017 04:32
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While the dialogue around her "arrogance" is gendered and problematic holy poo poo did her hubris bite her in the rear end here and many other times. May as well call a spade a spade in a safe place.
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Apr 9, 2017 04:40
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Shbobdb posted:While the dialogue around her "arrogance" is gendered and problematic holy poo poo did her hubris bite her in the rear end here and many other times. That's always a touchy thing, when someone is exhibiting behavior that warrants what are otherwise problematic labels. I think careful discussion of their application is necessary to diffuse the situation (as long as all parties are acting in good faith). In this case, it seems fairly clear that we're not calling Hillary arrogant because "lol, dumb woman thought she could be president". She could have been, and a fairly good one at that, IMO. Her arrogance was assuming she could double down on certain issues and ignore others because she had the game in the bag. She was, in essence, the personification of the Democratic party's long-standing attitude which has, unfortunately, been aimed at no one more than the LGBTQ community: "We do what we want, and you can just deal with it. What are you gonna do? Vote Republican?  "That arrogance is not part of her gender identity, it is part of her personal identity.
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Apr 9, 2017 04:45
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Hey. Hey. This isn't the election thread. I might have started this derail but I can also end it. No more thread for a few hours.
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Apr 9, 2017 04:48
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Oh gently caress off Karen https://twitter.com/sealoving77/sta...t-lgbt-youth%2F quote:An email telling teenage pages that “there are cross-dressers in the building” caused a noon-time furor in the Capitol on Monday. The email, by a House staffer who oversees the page program, was apparently prompted by the visit of about 70 LGBTQ students from the Tulsa area who were lobbying mostly on behalf of HIV awareness and education funding and support. Their presence prompted Karen Kipgen [inset], supervisor of the page program, to arrange for pages to use private staff and member restrooms.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:15
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Oh gently caress off Karen Oh great, this is becoming a thing. In North Carolina a glbtq high school group went to the state capitol with a reporter from NPR. The reporter was expecting a young people being civicly active fluff piece, but instead had to write about all the vile poo poo republicans subjected the kids to. State republican reps threatened to cut the station's funding if the reporter wasn't fired. She was.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:24
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For real anyone who knows anything about computer security knows that the existence of voting machines is a total loving travesty. You can hack them very easily, and you don't even have to be Russian or anything. Electronic voting needs to be banned globally and permanently, because there simply is no secure method of electronic voting, period.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:33
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Bethamphetamine posted:Oh great, this is becoming a thing. In North Carolina a glbtq high school group went to the state capitol with a reporter from NPR. The reporter was expecting a young people being civicly active fluff piece, but instead had to write about all the vile poo poo republicans subjected the kids to. Could I get a link to this story? I'm not angry enough today.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:36
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Megaspel posted:For real anyone who knows anything about computer security knows that the existence of voting machines is a total loving travesty. You can hack them very easily, and you don't even have to be Russian or anything. Electronic voting needs to be banned globally and permanently, because there simply is no secure method of electronic voting, period. At least they aren't connected to the Internet like some have proposed. At least every state has their own cobbled together standard so that you have to use different tactics to compromise each state. They are old and busted enough that you often have to be physically present to compromise them. Small favors in being luddites.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:56
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Aleph Null posted:At least they aren't connected to the Internet like some have proposed. For a country like Russia though, 51 variants max isn't even a concern. I'm not saying they were hacked, but the fact is that it is trivial for them to be hacked, and hiring a couple dozens hackers with American voting rights, would not be an issue at all for Russia. I know e-voting isn't even in every state, so in reality it would be even easier, heck, I wouldn't be surprise if some 4chan people hacked a bunch of machines, because it's ridiculously easy to do. It'd be quite funny for someone to get to a voting machine and report back, "uh, it was already hacked so the top candidates spell out marblecake?"
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Apr 11, 2017 15:01
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Easy Salmon Recipe posted:Could I get a link to this story? I'm not angry enough today. Here you go https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/03/gop-pressured-npr-firing-journalist-reported-bigotry/ It was in Tennessee, not NC. For some reason I've had North Carolina on my mind lately.
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Apr 11, 2017 15:56
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Bethamphetamine posted:Here you go Thanks! From there I managed to find an archived copy of the original story and holy poo poo gently caress the Tennessee State Legislature. I wish hell weren't a made-up place so they could burn there forever. And, let's be fair. If you're thinking of trans people being treated like poo poo, NC is definitely the first state to come to mind, so the confusion is understandable.
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Apr 11, 2017 17:36
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Woopee, they're literally opening the camps now. "Russian newspapers and human rights groups report that more than 100 gay men have been detained “in connection with their non-traditional sexual orientation, or suspicion of such” as part of a purge. Several people were also reportedly feared dead following violent raids. In a chilling response, a Chechen government spokesperson denied that there are any gay people to detain, insisting that “you can’t detain and harass someone who doesn’t exist in the republic”. The Kremlin denied any knowledge of a purge. The detainees face electric shock torture and violent beatings, while some of them have been held to ransom and used to extort their families." http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/10/chechnya-has-opened-concentration-camps-for-gay-men/ Also would you look at that, a bunch of comments that look like they only care because it's another chance to scream about the mooselimbs. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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